Book Lord Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) E3M3 – Malebolge by @Icytux Doomsday Engine, UV-Fast, Continuous, blind run w/saves The only contribution from Icytux, Malebolge was a notable level with a harsh first segment, as compared with OG Doom and the rest of the PWAD. Pistol starters will find the shotgun, 12 shells, and the chaingun in the first room, but they must dispatch four monsters with them, including a Cacodemon and a Baron of Hell. It was possible to escape the room and come back later, but it required a sprint through harmful blood and a blind jump into an outdoor area, which was dangerous on its own because of more damaging floors, and hellspawn ready to leave their burrows and converge around the player. Once I got control of the blood pond, I explored the nearby caverns. Regardless of the low monster count, it was a short but painful romp, due to the omnipresent hurting blood and the passable vine mid-textures that impaired my sight, a feature that I do not remember in id levels. Weapons and goodies could be gained in the tunnels and in the caverns, including a two-stage secret combat armour, a trapped rocket launcher, and a plasma gun protected by a Baron of Hell. The RSK was found after emerging from the caverns, and the BSK was seen on a ledge nearby. The YSK was also there but out of sight; it would have been nice to see all keys together. Spoiler According to Dante’s Divine Comedy, Malebolge was the 8th circle of Hell, where traitors and ruffians were horribly punished for their sins. This level used SP_DUDE textures to convey a medieval concept of human damnation, but their placement was not as tasteful as in id levels. This imagery loses all its credibility when the player can touch the hanging body and experience its flatness, possibly picking up a handful of shells laying on the victim’s feet. This was one of the minor gripes I had with the visuals, which were otherwise appealing, and the layout, which was labyrinthine as Petersen would have conceived it. Spoiler The red door opened into the starting room, where a twin closet had opened to revive the action. The second red door carried me through a series of hallways, including a SLADWALL section with a SKULWAL niche that quoted E3M3, and up to the BSK. The YSK was found behind the nearby blue door, after more Cacodemon fights and one last Baron emerging from a closet. Pandemonium offered the first BFG of the game, tucked in a remote, non-secret corner that all newbies probably missed on the first playthrough in 1994. You know I did, and I completely missed the secret one in this map too. I left without even suspecting it existed, although I was a bit on a rush when I played this level and did not spend extra time for secret hunting. Malebolge was undoubtedly fun and challenging to play, it presented an intertwined layout and other subtle affinities with OG Doom. On the other hand, the widespread damaging floors, the prominent height variation, and the texture usage were not reminiscent of id’s Inferno. In my opinion, Icytux’s entry carried the influence of two decades of PWAD creation and refinement; it was a fine and competent level, but wide of the mark for Doom the way id did. Edited February 17, 2022 by Book Lord 10 Share this post Link to post
RHhe82 Posted February 17, 2022 E3M3: Malebolge. DSDA v0.24, UV-PS-Saveless. 98% kills & 100% secrets. Completion time 18:52 (in November: 19:27). Zero deaths in E3 so far. Total tally (2+1+0)+DE This is another one I didn't like on my first playthrough, but the second time was somewhat more fun. That said, there's something that doesn't sit with me all that well - I guess it starts with pistoling down a cacodemon (continuous play would sidestep that issue) and facing a baron right away. In my second playthrough I made the wise choice of avoiding the baron altogether, but then you get to a damaging blood area with all sorts of baddies closing in on you. Never mind the monsters, but there is enough of damaging floor as it is. I remember that being a real issue in my November playthrough. Surprisingly enough, I missed one enemy on this playthrough! Having found all the secrets I figured the last remaining enemy would have to reside in the exit room, so I went there to find it devoid of demon life and a way back without cheats. Ah well. I guess I should have at least gone and grabbed the blue armor, maybe that would have triggered the final enemy. As a sidenote, let it be mentioned that I like the intermission maps, I think Inferno was the best in OG and it's the best here. rhhe82_e3m3_skill4_dsda-doom_dtwid.zip 9 Share this post Link to post
Spectre01 Posted February 17, 2022 E3M1 - “Abyssal Stronghold” by ellmo Nice reimagining of Hell Keep, complete with a Caco to pistol before getting the Shotgun! I like the visual mixture of ashy rocks and flesh crevices. Appropriately hellish. E3M2 - “City of Corpses” by Walter confetti, ellmo On the surface, this is less of a city and more of a Mt Erebus crater. There is a good balance between exploring dark indoor areas and spacious outdoor environments. The descent through lava-filled tunnels and Lost Soul ambushes is probably my favourite part. E3M3 - “Malebolge” by Icytux Incredibly hostile level by DTWID standards, more so than E2M6. Right away, you are faced with threats you don’t have the ammo to handle and almost every section forces you to navigate damaging blood. Radsuits are not given and must be earned. Finding a good portion of the 10 secrets seems to be a requirement to staying alive. The progression isn’t obvious right away either, and I spent a good deal of time (and health) backtracking over pain sectors, trying to find what I missed. The level gets noticeably easier half-way through once you find the essential secrets. I found myself enjoying the second half quite a bit after the initial frustration. It’s a good map but over the top for E3’s difficulty. Would make more sense for one of the harder E4 slots. 9 Share this post Link to post
Agent Slacker Posted February 17, 2022 E3M3: Malebolge DOOM Retro, UV, Continuous w/saves, played on a PDP Afterglow Wired Controller for Xbox One If you'll excuse me for being crass, the first thing that ran through my mind as I was going through the blood river that dropped me into the level only to be ambushed by imps, cacos, and former humans, was "this is cock and ball torture" (it didn't help that I was listening to Carly Rae Jepsen). I'm quite surprised at how brutal the intro was, especially for something this early. Hell, I'm surprised at how fast paced this map is in general, getting railed by enemies from everywhere. Sitting somewhere too long is a nightmare. I'd normally see something like this one or two levels later. I'm not sure how I feel about half of the map being covered in damaging blood, but once you have everything you need, it becomes considerably less of an issue. It's only when you start looking for secrets that it becomes a bit of a pain in the ass. I remember liking this map more than I did, but as it stands it's pretty good. It just seems a bit difficult for something so early in the Episode, but at least it gets the point across that you're definitely in Hell now. 8 Share this post Link to post
DisgruntledPorcupine Posted February 17, 2022 E3M1: "Abyssal Stronghold" by ellmo UV with Corruption Cards, no saves 100% kills, 1/2 secrets Card: One monster is cursed. It will cause a nuclear explosion when killed. And with the 3rd episode beginning we see less of the crazy mix of textures, and instead a more focused hell theme. And it looks quite nice. This one bares quite a few visual similarities to the original E3M1 but outshines it in level of detail, most notably in the starting area which puts you in a similar looking flesh-floored exterior, but throws in a cave introduction and a river of blood running through the middle. The monster count is also quite meager like the original, with 33 monsters appearing in this one. This map is luckily not as much of a slog to play as the original E3M1. While the original had you pistoling down cacos at the start, once the caco shows up here you can easily run past it to grab a shotgun to speed things up. You'll still have to be a bit mindful though as the map doesn't gorge you with shells, and I wasn't able to find the rocket launcher secret during my run unfortunately. The card I got this time is quite funny, unlike the toxic floor curse the monster this time doesn't have a visual tell when you first spot it. When you do kill it, a loud cacophony of distorted voices and pitch-shifted pain noises starts playing and the monsters starts flashing red and white while growing larger and larger, before eventually exploding. The cursed monster was a spectre in a cave this time, and here my getaway was simple. Hopefully that is the case going forward! Solid map to kick things off, much prefer it to the original E3M1. E3M2: "City of Corpses" by Walter confetti, ellmo UV with Corruption Cards, no saves 100% kills, 3/4 secrets Card: Zombieman slides around while moving While this map does seem to draw influence from a couple places in the original (like E3M6 and E3M2 from what I noticed), the end result is one of the most distinctive maps in the set so far, and in a way that I think ends up fitting with the wad's goals quite well. You start in a somewhat cramped hellish fort before eventually reaching the outdoors, an open area with a river of hellslime and a few buildings, resembling what I could definitely imagine being an early id attempt at a "city" style layout. The midi replacement channels its Bobby Prince by giving us an Alice in Chains cover, with Man in the Box being the song of choice. Combat here features a fair few number of cacodemons, and a bit of an ammo squeeze at the start which eventually loosens up a bit. There is of course some running through liquid with radsuits, but you likely won't have to make any repeat trips so it's not too dangerous. I generally had fun here, and it's nice to see more open concept mapping come into things again, giving you lots of breathing room. I think my only complaint with the map is it feels like it ends rather abruptly. The card this time isn't too bad, the zombiemen can be a bit hard to hit if they get some momentum going though and starting sliding all over the place. This one was great, one of the high points in visuals and layout for sure. 7 Share this post Link to post
kalaeth Posted February 17, 2022 E3M3 - Malebolge : Small room, a pair of teleport destinations behind me. Opening the door a fireplace. Behind it, a shotgun and then two paths, both leading to a baron, just like that, a baron. Followed by a damaging blood cascade. And then a blood river with vine covered enemies. This map ain't playing around. I enter some vines, find a secret backpack and a way inside a building. There a rad suit, a RL, a switch and then I find three secrets in quick succession, follow the blood caverns to the red key and now must return, somehow, to the beginning, up the bloodfalls.. Short run through blood leads me to another vine filled building where one door gives me a much needed berserker and the other a close encounter with a pinkie a shotgunner and a tomato. And then the red door from the start. The place is a bit different and has a pair of roaming cacos. The other red door, more caco, another baron, the blue key! Now, I see a secret from up here... Ah! Bluesphere. Back to the red door, the other path and yet another secret wall, and just after the wooden door, another. And then, a blue door and yet another caco. This is one meatball filled level. And then, the other blue door. The yellow door is right here, a caco guarded exit. But I'm missing 3 secrets, 5 enemies. Back I go! Secret rad suit, wading through the blood, another secret door with a pinkie and 2 lost skulls, then a lift to a switch that lowers the blue armor in a secret way back. One more secret to go.. Ah! Found. Then I had to battle a baron for a BFG. And then there was one enemy to go. I ahd to IDDT to find him, a baron in a closet that didn't open. Because I went back and not front when I picked the YK. Triggered him free and exit. K/I/S : 100%, 100%, 100% time : 23:05 / 45:40 deaths : 0/ 2 8 Share this post Link to post
DavitW Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) E3M3: Malebolge A what now? Anyway, this one is a constant stream of Cacodemon shit sprayed directly into your face throughout. Combine that with what feels like more hurt floor than regular floor along with all the vines that make it next to impossible to see what the hell's attacking you and you have yourself a rage inducing experience. I turned off fast monsters for this one. My favorite part of the demo was when I was trapped between two Cacodemons and I could see another one hovering around in the other room before the door closed, it gave me a good laugh for whatever reason. I was short a monster kill or two at the end with only 98% but good enough for government work. e3m3.zip Edited February 17, 2022 by DavitW 8 Share this post Link to post
LadyMistDragon Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) E3M2: City of Corpses (I forgot to mention before, I actually played E3 years before the rest on a whim, but due to my depression at the time, my memories are somewhat empty. Also, I'll be lacking in time for the next 3 weeks. But I'll of course make time for E4:). An excellent second map, City of Corpses neither resembles any kind of city, nor is even all that id-like (other than the pools of lava and the beginning indoor section which reminded me of something from Bond of Hatred but is probably kind of a generic E3/4 hallway to be quite honest). That doesn't take away from the moderately impressive design chops on display. Granted, the blue key is placed rather awkwardly on a ledge in the open (I'm blaming @Walter confetti for that one) but there's still a certain amount of joy one can get from climbing a mountain. The following cave with the yellow key at the end's my favorite part though. You're confronted by a small horde of Imps and Pinkies when you're suddenly attacked from behind by Lost Souls! It was quite a shock and hurt me quite badly my first time around. It was also here I missed the secret on my first two playthroughs but actually remembered this time! That's probably the most dangerous part of the map though. There'e enough space for the most part that nothing really feels too dangerous, other than at the end where you face off with a Baron and Cacodemon in an extremely narrow space you may well not have the ammo for, even if you find the hidden rocket launcher. I ultimately completed this in 8:07 with 100 percent secrets. I guess it could have more substance but I still like it a lot. Grade: B+ Difficulty: C- E3M3: Malebolge Here is the only entry by Icytux and wow, does it leave an impact. Excellent balancing of visuals and areas between volcanic rock, red brick, and pools of lava in a nicely circular format. Secret hunting is quite fun is a map such as this. It also steps up the difficulty somewhat. I was killed by Spectres around 3 times before feeling confident enough to save. And the boiling blood will still sap your health away. Rad suits can help, but you've got to know where they are first. I really liked the ledge with the blue and yellow key doors. A little on the basic side I suppose, but you get a decent view and it's a strong sort of foreshadowing of what you'll likely encounter. It took an embarrassingly long time to locate the secret with the circular chamber containing two Barons and the BFG. At a certain point, I really wanted to be finished. However, I feel compelled to point out Peccatum Mizhamiz's "Electic Death" is an excellently atmospheric and energetic complement to this interesting map. Hats off to Icytux for creating this map that doesn't feel especially id-like but is nevertheless qutissentially Ultimate Doom Grade: A- Difficulty: C Edited February 17, 2022 by LadyMistDragon : changed 3 months to weeks, doh 7 Share this post Link to post
finnks13 Posted February 17, 2022 E3M3 - Malebolge by Icytux: Another very fun E3 map, this map starts off very mean (the second hardest start after E1M9 so far), with a cacodemon immediately shooting me (I think damage is almost unavoidable here), with a turbo pinky guarding the shotgun - I died a few times here trying to get past everything. After that, this map becomes pretty doable as higher tier weapons are very available, the rocket launcher and plasma gun are accessible in the cave area and help stop the higher health enemies becoming a slog. The secrets in this map were fun to find, the blue armour requires finding three secrets to become accessible and even though I had killed everything by that point, it was a nice capstone to the rest of the level. I think the map, again, looks too nice to be a Sandy map but the outside area looks quite a lot like the cave areas in Slough of Despair so it's a solid attempt. There's a couple of mean traps, the cacodemon that appears behind you from the yellow key completely took me off guard. There's a lot of damaging floors everywhere, but there's enough rad-suits that traversing them doesn't become irritating. I'm intrigued why this map was placed here specifically, in terms of the weaponry it gives out compared to the next couple of maps and due to how mean it is in places, I would expect it to appear later in the episode - though I think Deep into the Code really fits this map, and it'd be a shame to not have it paired with the map if it were on the E3M5 slot. I liked this one, it was fun. 7 Share this post Link to post
DJVCardMaster Posted February 17, 2022 E3M3 - Malebolge - Icytux *Sandy Petersen* (98%K/98%I/90%S): I see the layout, and I can't think about another one than Romero itself, yes, this map screams Romero to me, and this is the start of a series of maps that are just tagged as a tribute to Sandy Petersen only because Inferno. But no, there is some texture choices reminiscent to those in Sandy's works, but there is a really nice care to detail only visible in some Romero maps of the era, the layout of the inner rooms feels similar to the layouts found in E1, some secrets, just like the lift sound nearby when triggering a linedef, and such, is quite Romero-esque. Needless to say, this is the best layout so far, and I think the most enjoyable map in DTWID (I think to its entirety), quite engaging, and quite replayable. Fights are getting quite hard here, so making it a little bit more hard than usual is also a welcome change of pace, considering the difficulty curve of the game. Again, not having an idea of what an E3 map from Romero could be, this could be a really nice approach, but, as Sandy is mentioned here as the "go-to", this will lower my IDness score.IDness ratio: 3/5 (UV Playthrough - Crispy Doom)Order of Preference: Spoiler E3M3 E2M6 E1M4 E2M7 E1M7 E2M1 E3M2 E2M9 E2M2 E1M5 E1M6 E3M1 E1M3 E2M4 E1M2 E1M8 E1M1 E1M9 E2M8 E2M5 E2M3 6 Share this post Link to post
dei_eldren Posted February 17, 2022 E3M4 Torture Chambers (HMP, continuous, blind): K 100%, I 65%, S 62%, D 2, T 27:17 Spoiler i obviously stepped right into it. Crushed. The level makes its intentions clear from the start, we are not in OG Inferno anymore! The crusher is a mean vicious trick, and still if i just don't take it too seriously, it's kind of a funny way announcing the intention - to kill you. But really, objectivelly it's a nasty move and shouldn't in all honesty be there. The map is full of damaging floors, and scattered radsuits, and fights in dark claustrophobic spaces. After i survived the crusher came the first encounter in the form of a chaotic fight against berserk Pinkies and Imps, Cacodemons, and crossfire from caged Imps hard to see. i don't think anyone will complain this map lacks monsters, as some earlier ones admittedly did. Yet, the monster count was not staggering, only 80, so they have also been put to good use, while copious use of Lost Souls seems to have become norm in this set. The map is much harder than Malebolge, so much so that it's like UV compared to HMP. There are several memorable areas and encounters. But none more so than the pitch dark maze of square hiding shotgunners, that got me good, next to a pool of lava holding a secret RL (which i did not obtain), and the secret maze of lava connected to it, as i found later, hiding an Invulnerability - which would actually be put to good use grabbing that first, then taking the secret path to the dark maze. It could also be used in the other area close by, with a winding pathway of green marble over a pool of blood, with again crossfire from Imps, and where a Baron also holds his court. i uncovered five out of eight secrets, and part of my reluctance to look for all was due to the abundant damaging floors, wanting to preserve most of the Soulsphere i acquired. Regarding OG, maybe there's some feeling of Thy Flesh Consumed, but this is once again a much more sophisticated than anything in Inferno - i'd almost say it's like TFC meets Si666il. Regardless of the lack of OG idness, i really enjoyed this, just as the previous ones, and that's ultimately what matters. Only the crusher at the start that activates on movement by necessity drops the grade some. Who's Who Spoiler Episode Three E3M1 - Abyssal Stronghold - 10+/10 E3M3 - Malebolge - 10+/10 E3M2 - City of Corpses - 10/10 E3M4 - Torture Chambers - 9/10 Episode Two E2M6 - Foundry - 10+/10 E2M1 - Receiving Station - 9.5/10 E2M4 - Mental Ward - 9.5/10 E2M7 - Ore Processing - 9/10 E2M3 - Rec Facility - 9/10 E2M2 - Filtration Compound - 9/10 E2M5 - Deimos Command - 8/10 (2-point penalty for design choices) E2M8 - Vault - 6.5/10 Episode One E1M7 - Logic Core - 10/10 E1M9 - Excavation Site - 9.5/10 E1M5 - Engineering Bay - 9.5/10 E1M6 - Reactor Complex - 9/10 E1M2 - Military Bunker - 8.5/10 E1M4 - Treatment Plant - 8/10 E1M3 - Fuel Synthesis - 8/10 E1M8 - Transport Facility - 8/10 E1M1 - Communications Bridge - 7/10 7 Share this post Link to post
NiGHTS108 Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) E3M4: Torture Chambers By Captain Toenail + Hellbent Kills: 72% Items: 8% Secrets: 12% Time: 4:14 Alright everyone, let's get the elephant out of the room, I believe the crusher at the start of Torture Chambers is bloody hilarious just for how absurdly it instantly appears, rest in peace you DW Ironman Club members who fell to this thing, but the savescumming pistol starter thinks it's brilliant, moving on, Torture Chambers is... *gasp!* ANOTHER Inferno styled map??? This one based on House Of Pain, as the name and map slot would suggest, but it doesn't feel like it a whole awful lot outside of the layout vaguely resembling the first half and perhaps the marble zigzags over boiling blood, I must admit the pictured area here is pretty hideous, even for "Sandy Petersen", beware of the lava in this map too, as that's 20 damage a second without armour, the blood is less pipin' hot though, thankfully you do get at least 3 RAD suits to get by, the gameplay?.. Yup, Doom I again! It can get a little cramped in the dark Doom 64-esque corridor, but if you find the rocket launcher unlike knucklehead me, you shouldn't have any problems on your plate, this one still doesn't feel very inspired to me unfortunately, it's not the worst map in the episode so far but I don't really love it either Grade: C+ Difficulty: C Edited February 18, 2022 by NiGHTS108 7 Share this post Link to post
TheOrganGrinder Posted February 18, 2022 E3M1: Abyssal Stronghold I don't think it's terribly controversial to suggest that, of the maps that open each episode of classic Doom, E3M1: Hell Keep may be the least fondly regarded of the three. On the one hand, then, Abyssal Stronghold may not really have to work as hard as either Communications Bridge or Receiving Station, since it's not trying to fill the shoes of a well-loved fan favourite to the same degree; on the other hand, perhaps it has to work that much harder to redeem a map slot generally not credited with making the best impression upon players getting started on the game's third episode. Abyssal Stronghold is a pretty good map, taking design cues from the classic E1M1 and E3M1 in roughly equal measure, with a layout that curls in a gently clockwise fashion, reminiscent of Hangar minus its central courtyard in its scale and the way it leads the player steadily through different iterations of the episode's theme. Flesh and blood, rocky landscapes, baroque castles, volcanic caverns... all the elements of a classic Doom Hell map are present and correct, and this certainly introduces those elements more confidently and convincingly than did Hell Keep back in the day. Gameplay is a little on the slow side, with the perpetual worry that there may be multiple cacodemons or a Baron of Hell lurking ahead encouraging the player to conserve precious shotgun shells and instead resort to the pistol or fists to dispatch the imps and pinkie demons that make up the bulk of the map's monster population; as in the classic E3M1, there are no zombies or shotgun sergeants to be found here, although I don't know whether that was a part of the level's design brief or if that particular homage found its way in purely through the mapper's own choice. I'm not well placed to judge whether this is a faithful emulation of the Petersen style, but I do feel it succeeds as a plausible might-have-been E3M1, with nothing really jumping out at me that would seem hypothetically out of place in the IWAD. E3M2: City of Corpses The text file for this project indicates that this particular map is a collaboration between two authors, and I'd be interested to know just which parts of the level each worked on, because there's definitely a sense of two distinct aesthetics in play here, of carefully crafted structures rubbing shoulders with the minimalistic painting of the infernal landscape, of squirming and writhing one's way through convoluted corridors one moment and sprinting across open acres beneath a scorched-red sky the next. It represents perhaps a more gradual continuation and expansion of the Hell aesthetic after Abyssal Stronghold than the notoriously tangled and truculent classic E3M2 does following on the heels of Hell Keep, granting the player more in the way of brimstone-scented breathing room and some freedom as to where to go and what to do first upon emerging from the initial dungeon that feels like an extension of the preceding map's fairly linear sequence of introductory set pieces, even if there's only so far you can get without the blue skull key. The player is given enough elbow room throughout most of the map that most of the monsters have trouble backing up their bark with their bite; there's a lot of noise and fury, a lot of flying fireballs and shrieking skulls, but an experienced player can dance graceful loops around the worst of what this map might throw at them, although the cacodemon arena from which the yellow skull key must eventually be wrestled and the lost souls that emerge to harry the player's descent along a slippery path of boiling blood can make up a pleasantly tense monster sandwich around a player who doesn't prefer to methodically eliminate the opposition on the way down. The late, optional but non-secret placement of the plasma gun suggests authorship with an eye toward continuous play, since it's entirely possible that every monster on the map will be dead before the player finds the thing; a nice treat for an invading marine about to grapple with E3M3's toothier challenges, or a prompt for frustrated grumbling by a player bemoaning their sinking of time and bullets into the Baron of Hell tap-dancing atop the exit portal just before stumbling upon the better and quicker tool for that particular job? 10 Share this post Link to post
RHhe82 Posted February 18, 2022 E3M4: Torture Chamber. DSDA v0.24, UV-PS-NoSaves. 100% kills & secrets. Completion time 14:23 (in Nov. 19:35). Two deaths in E3 so far. Total tally (2+1+2)+DE. When I'm starting up DSDA, I rarely remember what sort of level I'm facing, but as soon as I see the opening shot of the level, I usually get wary. This one was also something that I wasn't remembering fondly. I seemed to anticipate ammo stinginess. Well, no, this time around the level wasn't that hard, except that I died in it twice. I'm not sure all my attempts were recorded in a demo, but in short: once a facerocket, once walked into a lowering crusher*. Good job, me. There were some very clear elements from Inferno, most notably (Gate to) Limbo. Fortunately for us, the layout was far less confusing and far less boring. Torture Chamber did rub me the wrong way with my silly deaths and pain sectors, but I guess those were on me. My successful attempt more or less knew what to do and when to use rad suits and the secret invulnerability sphere, which I totally forgot to pick up for the rematch of the facerocket fight. [Little after playing and recording the demos, I discovered I had been doing the demos wrong and thus only the first failed attempt had been recorded, and as I can't be bothered to re-do the demo, I'll just omit it this time]. * @NiGHTS108's clip has a funny beginning :-D Not very far from what I did in my other failed attempt; I got past the crusher, but then I immediatly retreated back under it to dodge some enemy projectile and that's it then. 5 Share this post Link to post
Agent Slacker Posted February 18, 2022 E3M4: Torture Chamber DOOM Retro, UV, Continuous w/saves, played on a PowerA Enhanced Controller for Xbox Series S/X Now would have been a great time to mention cock and ball torture, but that comparison has sailed. I don't think I liked this one nearly as much as the previous 2 maps. Maybe it's because nothing really WOWed me compared to the aesthetics of M2 or the brutality of M3. The crushing imp cage was kinda cool. The battle with the barons over lava was pretty neat too. It's a perfectly serviceable map. 4 Share this post Link to post
Spectre01 Posted February 18, 2022 E3M4 - “Torture Chambers” by Captain Toenail, Hellbent Off to a good start! Another map themed around pain sectors and plentiful secrets. I didn't find the Berserk or RL until after everything was dead, which made budgeting ammo a bit of an issue. There are also a whopping 5 Barons and 12 Cacos in this level, which is a significant amount of HP to shoot through with mostly basic weapons. I'm not knocking this map for it; id's own IWAD levels are questionably balanced for Pistol Starts if you aren't finding all the secrets and want to max kills. The visuals are also great, while still emulating Sandy's often eclectic texture selection. The lighting is definitely a step up. Thinking back, Doom 1's Inferno looks a bit too bright in general, so darker lighting definitely helps with the atmosphere. 3 Share this post Link to post
DisgruntledPorcupine Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) E3M3: "Malebolge" by Icytux UV with Corruption Cards, no saves 100% kills, 8/10 secrets Card: Sergeant slides around while moving A hellish fortress with some cavernous sections, and damaging blood flooding the outside areas. From double-checking the levels in the original game to make sure I'm not losing my mind, I'm seeing that this episode seems to be projecting a more straightforward and coherent hell theme than the maps from the original tended towards. This is also another map that I felt had quite a polished appearance compared to most id stuff, it's quite good looking. We have the most secrets in a long time here too with 10, I had to cheat to find the means to getting the BFG secret since it contains two barons. It's a hell of an obscure secret, you can't even really hear the lift you're tripping, or at least I couldn't. I'm thankful I'm playing continuous, because this map seems to have a hell of a rude start for pistol starters. You open the first door to a cacodemon in your face, and running behind to the chaingun area adds a baron to the mix. In the immediate area there's only a chaingun and a shotgun, so either run off and find something better or you have a grindy fight here. From a continuous start though, this isn't too bad nor is the rest of the map. The damaging blood can be a cruel mistress from time to time though. Cardwise, the shotgunners join their zombieman cousins for a skate. Again, it didn't really cause me problems, although it did create one funny moment where a shotgunner pulled some James Bond-esque moves by sliding past the wall I was using for cover and firing simultaneously. Pretty good map, visuals hit another high point here. 4 Share this post Link to post
Book Lord Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) E3M4 – Torture Chambers by @Captain Toenail, @Hellbent Doomsday Engine, UV-Fast, Continuous, blind run w/saves Considering the level name, I expected a gruesome place with mutilated bodies everywhere, capable of overshadowing the first section of House of Pain which struck my teenage imagination, thanks to its macabre walls of skin and the parade of tortured souls in blood-filled chambers. The authors placed hanging corpses in the starting hallway and in a few other places, mostly hidden from sight, so this was quite an abstract way to portray the Torture Chambers. Enemies waited in sizeable groups to the left and to the right of the start, but a slow crusher prevented me from camping the room. I had to play aggressively to gain some ground and to begin the systematic exploration of this small-sized level. The right wing granted me the BSK after a fierce battle with Imps and Cacodemons; the left portion contained a series of dark hallways, with several Pinkies and former humans lurking in the shadows. I did not find the shootable switch to access the rocket launcher, which was the only secret I missed. Spoiler At the centre of the map two blue doors showed me the way to advance. The cage contained a switch to raise the bridge over the lava moat, while the big door presented an outdoor area with a walkway crossing harmful blood up to the YSK. The aesthetics were both reminiscent of the shotgun room of Hell’s Keep and of the twin crusher room of the OG E3M4. The Baron of Hell was in the middle of the crossfire, so I abused his infighting prowess a bit. Spoiler Beyond the lava moat, the YSK opened an elliptical lava room with Cacodemons, followed by two Barons. A Radiation Suit was essential to walk around there, as well as to search the moat and the Limbo-inspired red tunnels. I found a secret by pure chance, as I was sucked into one of the Baron boxes during the fight and noticed an extra switch inside; it awarded me the Computer Area Map that helped finding almost every useful stash. After pressing the central switch, the exit was accessible, and a teleporter offered an immediate shortcut to it. A very functional map, Torture Chambers seemed like a perfected, less sprawling version of House of Pain, oriented towards combat set pieces and secret hunting. Tortured and maimed human prisoners were not prominently displayed, though the place looked like a proper hellish level with spot-on lighting and competent texturing. It is difficult to establish if Captain Toenail did the general design and Hellbent applied some touch-up to make the level eligible for the final release. It could have been the other way round as well. Consistent with Doom the way id did and fun to play. 6 Share this post Link to post
kalaeth Posted February 18, 2022 Friday, time for some torture. E3M4 - Torture Chambers : A crusher right at the start! This is gonna be fun. After that, imps from both sides, plus cacos and pinkies. To the right, a blood river crosses the room. To the left, after the imp cages a cave like thingy imp and shotgunner populated, leading to a pool of lava where I fall and die before finding the teleport. Try 2. Instead of going left or right I go forward, up the stairs. A river of lava separates me from the exit and a cage with imps opens up. There's a door that I go through, killing two imps inside a brainlike stairway that leads to the cavelike thingy. From there I follow another stairway just for a eyeball and then take a run through the lava that killed me into the teleport... Pointless. So it's back to the right entry on the start and the river of blood. I go right, to the brain island seen right after the opening. I garb the rad suit, the blue key, and then run the blood river. Rad suit, teleport. I'm near the exit so I jump down to the lava and explore the corridors, finding two secrets and then I go to the blue door, zigzagging through the blood all the way to the yellow key. Going back I trip into the blood and notice a secret, so back to the YK pickup and a short wallhumping after, I found a different secret. Then I test a theory that proves to be right : none of the blood pools is inescapable. Another secret on my count, I move to the yellow door, opening up to a switch, that opens up a battle room with cacos and a baron. Clear them, teleport. A new area opened up, kill a couple cacos, open the door get gangbanged by a baron a several imps. Near death but alive! Now, I'm missing 4 secrets.. Ok, found the automap! And I still have like 14% health to spare. Rocket launcher found! And now it's the soulsphere secret and another I don't even know about.. Oh, the candle in the blood river! Another health pack and a switch.. And finally! The soulsphere. I can breathe now. And go for the exit. K/I/S : 100%, 65%, 100% (wow, 65%? What did I leave hanging around?!) time : 22:30 / 1:08:10 deaths : 1 / 3 And that makes the third death. Two to environmental damage. And some people still say climate change isn't real! 3 Share this post Link to post
finnks13 Posted February 18, 2022 E3M4 - Torture Chambers by Captain Toenail and Hellbent: The mapname is accurate, if nothing else. Probably my least favourite of Episode 3 so far, parts of this map just felt like the parts of Inferno I don't like - seemingly designed to frustrate and with a lack of ammo and munitions that is pretty unnecessary. As far as I can tell, the only way to get the rocket launcher and plasma gun is through two secrets, and while the rocket launcher isn't too hard to find - you'll probably activate it by accident shooting some imps - the plasma gun requires you to jump into damaging blood and walk through a random wall and I'm really not sure if it's possible to get 100% kills without these (there is a berserk, but that doesn't really help me much on fast monsters!) The high amount of high-HP monsters also made this map a bit of a drag as rockets are pretty scarce for the majority of the map. There were some cool fights here though, the outside blue key area took me a couple of tries to figure out and eventually I managed to lower the soulsphere which along with giving me 140 health to work with, lowered a pillar I kept getting blocked on. I did also like the little lava filled room with the barons on lowering pillars - though I did find the invulnerability secret and punched everything to death which was quite satisfying after being effectively berserkless for 22 maps at this point. The layout of the map is actually fairly straight forward, it seems whenever you would need to backtrack, you're teleported to the right place and the map has a pretty small blueprint so it's hard to get lost. My favourite bit of the map was the crusher at the start, which I managed to just avoid at first and then backpedalled into it trying to avoid some imps - it got a laugh out of me! Not a bad map by any means though, there's some good stuff here, I just wish the map was a bit less focused on being frustrating. 7 Share this post Link to post
FistMarine Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) E2M1: Receiving Station A promising opener for E2. This map is relatively short and seems nicely designed, in style of original E2M1. I can't find any flaw in it. I'm certainly glad I grabbed the soulsphere earlier, because of the ambush inside one of secret places. It seems like I'm getting the hang of pistol starts already (with grabbing stuff earlier instead of saving powerups for the end), although in this map's case, it is a "forced" pistol start due to being the first map of the episode, so it's not different from a typical playthrough. It's interesting to read the notes mentioned earlier in regards to the NEIS (No End In Sight) megawad, as I wanted to play that one a while ago (it's on my to-play list, after I revisit Double Impact) and should do it as soon as I also finish with the ongoing DTWID series playthroughs (especially D2TWID that I started a few months ago and remember reaching MAP03 and stopping there). Not much else other than I'm looking forward for the rest of the episode! E2M2: Filtration Compound I have mixed feelings about this one. On one hand, it looks great. On the other hand, it is filled with damaging toxic blood (though thankfully you are given radiation suits, so the toxic blood isn't too bad), it is somewhat confusing and there is also a secret invisibility that requires you to get CRUSHED to get it (not the last secret requiring you to get crushed to get it, unfortunately, you will see a few maps later). OK, the last problem can be negated with grabbing an invulnerability secret from a nearby location and then quickly teleporting to get to this area and get through crusher unharmed and claim your prize (an invisibility sphere). I also had to replay this map because the first time apparently I missed a secret somewhere (and four items, I guess health bonuses?) and couldn't figure this out in a short time. After running in circles for minutes, I gave up and ended up with a non-100% demo run. I gave it another attempt a bit later (after watching the YouTube video again) and this time I got everything, although I nearly missed two imps and three health bonuses earlier in the map, so I once again had to backtrack and waste precious minutes, though at least I ended up with 12 minutes rather than 18. Honestly, I have no idea what the hell happened the first time around to miss a secret (MAYBE that invulnerability secret sank into floor and couldn't get registered anymore?). I admit I don't have secret notifications enabled in PrBoom+ and have to look at the automap to check if my stats and if I really registered a particular secret. At least PrBoom+ has the handy "show secrets" feature enabled by default, where it shows the sector in pink, even secrets you didn't find before. I find this a very useful feature for secret hunters. But I also find strange that the secret notifications (and show ENDOOM screen) aren't enabled by default. I personally enable showing ENDOOM screen feature because there are many wads with a custom nice graphic (including DTWID!) but I never got around with enabling secret notifications, mostly because to me it's a "ZDoom feature" and I would have rather preferred the message to show on top in red letters, kinda like what the Classic Doom Unity ports did as of lately, as of September 2020 patch. Though note I don't own the Doom unity ports (since I only own Doom games physically) but I just wanted to point out. As for the rest map, I like that you can backtrack from the end after you drop down, so you can go back to find missing stuff. I just wish I didn't have to go back and waste a couple more minutes in finding those damn imps and items, although I think my second run is better and faster. Oh yeah and I liked the part where you are given the choice between the Rocket Launcher and Plasma Rifle. I believe you get access to both weapons in next map anyway and for this map I recommend choosing the plasma, although there aren't moments where you really need to use it (e.g. there's no barons of hell, though maybe you can use on cacodemons). Overall, the map could have been better. But it certainly wasn't a bad map, just a somewhat flawed one. E2M3: Rec Facility This map seems better and more memorable than previous. It is done in style of original E2M3 and it wasn't too bad. The only thing that killed my first run (and had to do a second run shortly) was somehow getting softlocked inside a secret area. Yep, I somehow got softlocked inside a secret area! WTF! I didn't think that was fucking possible before. I have no idea how did this shit happen in first place but I was really pissed after I had to restart the run, as you may see me "waving" the mouse at random points (in the successful run demo). So basically what happened first time is I might have skipped a linedef and I didn't get teleported to the secret area, instead I was standing on the teleporter, then the wall closed behind me and I got stuck with no way out. Usually on a normal playthrough (if I was using saves), I would just load my saved game and forget about what happened (no I wasn't using IDCLIP to escape because I hate cheating). I'm not even sure if cheats work during demo recording but I think my second run went better overall as I didn't have to use pistol against too many monsters. Still had to be careful with that secret, so you see me approaching it slower than before. Leaving aside that another bad luck I've had (and not the last one unfortunately), this was a fun and enjoyable map. E2M4: Mental Ward This map is seen in the megawad's second opening demo, so you can expect early parts of the map by watching the intro demo. Early on, you may want to grab the non-secret green armor (activated temporary by lowering a lift early on), then kill those shotgunners and begin fighting! The rest of the map isn't too bad, there are a few barons but nothing to worry about. If you can get past the first baron (I recommend killing him with the shotgun) and grab the chaingun, the rest of the map will flow nicely. Some secrets are a bit tricky to find (as is the case with the rest maps) but not much to worry about. I think this map captures the original E2M4 feeling at times and it is also helped to give a moody ambience with the original soundtrack. I don't have much to talk about, I think it was fun and that's it. E2M5: Deimos Command This map took me a bit longer than it should have (took me the longest time out of this episode) and there are several factors involved. And that's why I'm here to explain how to reach all the secrets (including the secret exit) because things are trickier than they might seem. First, one secret is temporary open and only accessible early. If you enter that room (where shotgun guys are positioned on windows) and see two doors (one open and one closed), then make sure to go through the OPENED DOOR first. It contains goodies (berserk pack, ammo, bonuses, etc) and is required to reach the secret exit. If playing continuously, I highly recommend saving the game early on, to avoid potentially locking yourself out of the secret level, so you can just load an older save from the beginning of the map (pistol starters don't have this problem as they can just restart the map). Second, you need to find the THREE secrets in order to reach the secret exit (fourth secret). The problem is I ran in circles at the end because the secret exit DIDN'T unlock for whatever reason, one again I suspect a bullshit linedef skip may have caused me to waste time. There is a radiation suit and is put there for a reason! Use it to clear the normal exit path, then once done, go to the secret exit, hopefully before this expired. But since for me the secret exit didn't open yet, I had to waste an extra 5 or so minutes running through the whole map. I'm sure half of these demos I can redo and get a better time but I can't be bothered at the moment, like I said I haven't done many pistol starts before and it is the first time I'm recording demos along with it, so I find this stuff a refreshing change compared to the many continuous playthroughs I've done before (and in case of DTWID, it is my 3rd or 4th run overall, as my first playthrough of the wad was back in 2012-2013 or so, though either on Chocolate Doom or ZDoom/GZDoom with gameplay mods). Despite some annoying parts (and a bit of "no armor" in beginning, though you get a blue armor sometime later and a green one given near exit) which also include temporary accessible secrets, I think this map was alright overall. Kinda wish the secrets (and the way to access the secret exit) were a bit better thought out. E2M9: Nebulous Origins As was the case with DTWID E1M9, this map is MUCH BETTER than the original DOOM E2M9. I mean seriously, there's no contest. The original E2M9 sucked IMO and wasn't much of a reward for finding it, although it gave you the opportunity to create nice monster infighting between barons and cacodemons. And I guess the blue armor and soulsphere are also great rewards. But this DTWID E2M9 on the other hand, feels like an actual map and it's pretty damn good! I also realized this was the map I mentioned earlier, that had an unique song attached to it (I don't think this song was part of the original/ultimate DOOM, wasn't it?), giving the map an unique flavor. Overall, the map was challenging and fun. Secrets weren't too hard to find, the damaging acid parts provided you with radiation suits, fights were fun, visuals were good and so on. Probably one of the highlights of DTWID E2 (and even the whole DTWID). A secret level that you shouldn't miss! E2M6: Foundry And now for the infamous DTWID map! I have also read that topic that did analyzed the difficulty of many maps of particular wads and although I already played through DTWID before, seeing this map as the hardest definitely made me concerned on a pistol start run. You see, on a continuous run, this map isn't too bad, especially when you start it with 200% health and 200% armor, as well as your whole arsenal (except BFG) with plentiful ammo. On a pistol start, it's an entirely different story. You need to grab the shotgun and the green armor as soon as you can (there is a secret blue armor as well but I highly recommend saving that for the worst parts later on! also that blue armor sits on a 20 dmg lava, so be careful when grabbing it) and then MAKE YOUR SHOTS COUNT! Ammo is scarce, I had to rely on the pistol a couple of times (mostly against lost souls, though I also had to finish off a caco with pistol only) but other than wasting some time, I don't think there was a negative consequence. The chaingun was given after that part, so I didn't have to use the pistol anymore. Still the ammo remains slightly scarce. The problem with this map is the amount of traps. There are mostly crushers and damaging lava (20 dmg). One particular secret requires you to eat damage from both lava and crusher (!!!), I highly recommend saving the blue armor for this part! Then quickly rush for invulnerability and kill the THREE barons with your rocket launcher (at least 10 rockets should do it). I ended up running in circles at some points before that infamous part, because I wanted that soulsphere secret but then realized you get it after you get the yellow skull key, which requires getting through this hard part! Unless I missed something earlier... At the very least, I was successful getting 100% on this map in first try, despite taking me ALMOST as long as E2M5 (in both cases, over 20 minutes) and having some tricky parts that could have ended my run badly. You are given a couple radiation suits (I think 4 in total) but even then, you wish there was at least one more, even if you collect them carefully. There was a point I hesitated to go through (the blue door in the room filled with lava) because on YouTube, people wouldn't go through that door and didn't want to risk it, I guess it was the same path as the smaller blue door leading to, meaning I don't think I missed much, considering I still 100%'ed the map. It sucks you have to get through all this mess and you get most goodies later on (Plasma, Soulsphere, etc), that wouldn't be beneficial on a pistol start while you are near end of map, just like if there were ammo/health supplies placed in the exit room, it would only benefit continuous players. Now I start to understand how different pistol start feels compared to the continuous run and makes you appreciate certain aspects of it, although I don't really enjoy using pistol against many demons, I guess I prefer to kill demons as soon as I see them instead of leaving for later. So that's why you don't see me sprinting past enemies to grab an early shotgun in some maps (unless you are absolutely required doing so). With all that said, I didn't like this map too much and I wish THIS was the secret map instead, so most people have the option to skip it. :P Not to say the map was overall bad, just feels a bit out of place from DTWID (maybe would have made sense to be later in E3 or even E4 instead). If this map was replaced with something else, I don't think anyone else would mind. This map certainly would feel out of place even in the original DOOM, although even the original E2M6 sucked IMO (too maze-y and confusing for my taste), for different reasons obviously. Ah and just realized in the previous post when I talked about fake exits, it was E2M6 and NOT E2M5 that contained a fake exit. See what I mean with not being as familiar with E2/E3 compared to E1 (and even E4)? I tend to mix up a few of the maps... Overall, if I didn't watch the YouTube videos in advance, I don't think I could have completed this map on a pistol start. It's such a difficulty spike compared to rest DTWID maps. It might as well been part of UDTWID E4. Even then, I don't think this map is as difficult as some E4 maps but we will get to those maps soon, don't worry, I'm saving the criticism for those (when I revisit UDTWID next week). Now to the next map... E2M7: Ore Processing I think this map was alright. It had some good fights, good secrets (the soulsphere secret is reached by finding another secret and activating the computer panel, where you see the armor bonus sitting on it) and the damaging liquids parts required for progression, weren't such a pain (at least compared to the previous map). It feels refreshing after the previous map. Other highlights include the floor lowering after you get the backpack (and then using the chainsaw against demons), the crushers, the yellow key battle (I could have handled that fight slightly better if I used rockets against barons instead of plasma), etc. Not much to say about it, it was fine. I had fun with the map. E2M8: Vault This is an unique take on the original E2M8 fight against the Cyberdemon! You get a bit more varied opposition (a few imps and shotgun guys at beginning) and those lost souls present on higher difficulties (like original game), alongside the Cyberdemon! Unlike the original map (for various reasons), you aren't given blue armor and two soulspheres this time around. Instead, you are given 8 armor bonuses (kinda wish they were health bonuses instead), green armor, berserk and invisibility. I recommend grabbing the invisibility early on, so until platforms lower, it expires, to not mess up with cyber's aim. Then the cyber will teleport to a random corner and fight begins! Unfortunately I managed to die once here and not even the green armor saved me. This lucky SOB managed to somehow hit me with a rocket (that I would have otherwise dodged, no idea how it happened, guess because he started firing immediately as soon as he fired his previous rockets) and not even the armor saved me. I still had 50% armor left when I died, implying the rocket did what I'm guessing, the minimum 148-150 damage or something like that. Meaning that the green armor wasn't enough to save me from my unfortunate death. It felt disappointing and somewhat anti-climatic, to be honest. After making my way through some of the previous harder maps (especially E2M6), only to get killed at a relatively simple boss fight. Seeing the Cyberdemon triumphant over DoomGuy's corpse, that's just...lame. I'm sure I just needed a few more rockets to kill him, had I dodged that unfortunate rocket but anyway, I guess the RNG wasn't on my side right here. With all that said, I restarted the demo recording and ended up doing better this time around. Possibly getting a better time but also never getting hit early on (by shotgun guys), so I not only did a simple UV-Max but also a REALITY run at same time! And assuming I killed all lost souls as well (yes I wanted to kill those as well, even if they don't count as kills), I think my demo could even be worthy to get submitted to DSDA. If anyone can confirm I got all lost souls in the demo (I watched my own demo and didn't see any lost souls remaining), I intend to submit this demo to DSDA, as an UV-Max Reality run and encourage myself to do other nice demos as well in the future. :) Deaths so far: 1 (E2M8) E2 Thoughts: Not bad. Most maps were pretty good. I enjoyed revisiting them. When I mentioned DTWID being one of my favorite megawads of all time, I am MOSTLY referring to E1 because it is such a nice alternate E1 style episode that I can see myself replaying over and over (just like how I replayed the original E1 many times as of lately, by playing through every shareware version of Doom in DOSBox back in summer 2020). I don't think E2 holds a candle to it, though there were certainly some gems around that I enjoyed my time and also some stinkers (mostly E2M6, sorry, that map to me didn't really belong to DTWID, at least in E2 slot, maybe E3 or E4 would have worked better). It's not much different from the original Doom episodes, after all there's some bad maps in original game as well (and yeah I mentioned before that I like Doom 2 slightly more than Ultimate Doom, mostly due to nostalgia involved but I won't deny the fact even original DOOM 2 had some shitty maps in it) but I don't know, I feel like this map was used to fill the missing slot in the project. I don't know, I wasn't in the community back then, so correct me if I'm wrong. I will see with revisiting E3, I have a feeling the episode will be an improvement to E2. If not, then I guess there will be a few annoying maps and that's it. At worst, the episode will be a huge downgrade from E2, implying the level design gets worse as you progress throughout the game. I guess I will find out soon, when I get around pistol starting E3 (not sure if I will do UDTWID E4 pistol starts without saves, at least not all the maps). Oh yeah and forgot to talk about the unique intermission screen. I like the way in E2, it gets darker as you progress throughout the episode. That's a nice detail right here. And yeah, I love the new intermission screens, as I mentioned before, though now that I think of it, should have saved the megawad extras/features for the last post (E3 thoughts at least). Because there is a LOT to talk about. I mean I don't recall seeing other Ultimate Doom megawads with unique intermission graphics, with the exception of Doom: The Lost Episode (the unofficial 5th episode for Ultimate Doom, a decade released before John Romero's SIGIL!). DTWID really deserves some more love, that's what I will say for now. Even if there's some bad maps in it, I can't be too harsh on it. When people ask about Ultimate Doom replacements, I usually have DTWID/UDTWID in mind, as a recommendation. It's an experience you don't want to miss! ;) To end my notes, here are my times of all E2 maps and the demos I recorded yesterday (attached below): E2M1: 4:44 E2M2: 12:10 E2M3: 9:40 E2M4: 15:24 E2M5: 21:48 E2M9: 19:19 E2M6: 21:43 E2M7: 16:23 E2M8: 2:28 For fun, I will also attach my 3 failed demos, so you can laugh at my stupid failures! With this occasion, for those who watch my demos, I would like to know what happened in my original E2M2 run and what secret did I miss initially, as well as in my successful run of E2M8, if I killed all lost souls or not. So far I managed to read the first 5 pages of the thread (whole E1 writings and a bit of E2). I hope to read the rest during the weekend. Later today I will play through E3 and I will most likely post my E3 thoughts early on next week. Then I will see with playing through UDTWID E4 maps, whether I can do them pistol starts without saves or not. I haven't decided what I will do with DTWID: The Lost Episodes, as I haven't played them before and would have wanted to check them out. Maybe after my current D2TWID playthrough (I haven't played D2TWID since back in 2014 or so, which was probably done on GZDoom at that time, now doing it in Chocolate Doom), which is after the current DTWID/UDTWID pistol start revisited playthrough during the Megawad club. Have a nice weekend everyone! DTWID_Demos_E2.zip DTWID_Failed_Demos_E2.zip Edited February 18, 2022 by FistMarine 9 Share this post Link to post
TheOrganGrinder Posted February 18, 2022 E3M3: Malebolge I really want to sing the praises of this level, of its setting and its gameplay, both of which are absolutely top-tier. It takes place in an infernal fortress perched above a foetid morass of blood and vines and caverns, the whole of it functioning as a tight tangle of interconnected spaces through which spectres, imps, cacodemons, and worse are free to roam, pouncing on you from unexpected angles as you struggle to keep your bearings through disorienting twists and turns, threatening shadows, and excellent use of relatively modest height variations to make the vertical dimension a prominent part of the gameplay despite pretty much the whole level taking place within a horizontal "slice" a mere 272 units high; as far as I can tell there are three sectors with ceilings higher than +128, the exit room's floor is the lowest point on the map at -160, and the "bottom level" elsewhere tends toward a floor height of -128, with bloody channels and passages recessed to -144 in places. It's quite the trick to create a map that, objectively speaking, is flat in its gross proportions, but doesn't at all feel so. ...Which is maybe where this level falls down a bit as a part of Doom the Way id Did, because it's too clever, too polished, with too much careful craft poured into achieving visual fidelity with a minimum of sectors and linedefs; it's great to look at, engaging to play through, but just doesn't feel to me like something Sandy Petersen would've cooked up, or something that might have been a part of classic Doom, back in the day. The greater sophistication on display here suggests to me at the earliest Thy Flesh Consumed, so maybe this wouldn't have felt as out of place were it scheduled one episode later in the project, or maybe there's just no shaking off the feeling of modern design sensibility that suffuses it. Which is a real shame, because as I said it's good both visually and in gameplay terms, and I'd hate for "authentic id, authentic Hall, authentic Petersen," to end up implying that maps can't be those things and good-looking or fun, or that a map that's good-looking and fun ceases to be authentic. But this one doesn't quite thread the needle for me. One thing that's maybe worth mentioning is an interesting quirk of how the mechanism that grants access to the yellow key is set up. Because the linedef separating the key's plinth from the passage leading up to it is assigned a tag and action to lower the plinth, the additional trap that's supposed to trigger at that stage, turning loose a Baron of Hell in the courtyard below, actually has its trigger built into the outer lines of the key's plinth, such that they won't be triggered until the player jumps down from that vantage point after collecting the key. I think the mapper's intent is that the sudden appearance of a surprise cacodemon hissing right in the player's ear as a wall behind them lowered, coupled with the fact that most expedient route to the exit upon collecting the key is to drop down and turn to the right, will prompt the player to do exactly that, at which point they're set upon by the Baron of Hell and compelled, at a minimum, to expend a little effort dodging its attacks while blowing away the "meat wall" cacodemon right on the other side of the exit door. What happened to me, though, was that I heard the wall lowering behind me in time to turn and confront the cacodemon before I'd hit the switch to open up the obvious escape roop, then once I'd picked up the yellow key, I checked my map, noted that there was still a lot of stuff behind me that I had yet to explore, and turned around and went on my way without jumping down at all. Which left me, later, at 79/80 kills and 10/10 secrets, scratching my head and wondering where in Hell the last monster might be hiding, resorting eventually to IDDT to reveal the presence of one last monster closet and mentally retracing my path through the level to figure out where the missed trigger might have been. 8 Share this post Link to post
LadyMistDragon Posted February 18, 2022 E3M4: Torture Chamber Looks like Hellbent's involved yet again. A lovingly-crafted homage this time? Oh you bet! There's a room with a lava river running through the middle and cacodemons on the sides strongly reminiscent of something from Limbo, with an adjacent maze in the lava below underscoring this. Not to mention the platform crossing the blood with the yellow key at the other end. There are also plenty of little details that add some real torture ambience, such as the crushers that kill the Imps (and also got me, ouch) when you enter the corresponding blue key door, and the general use of lighting and architecture (check out these digestive-tract walled chambers, eh?). I'm guessing Captain Toenail is responsible for the series of hallways that look like they were generated in SLIDGE, and perhaps a few other rooms as well (the outdoor supercharge you lower by shooting a rather hard-to-see eye switch, it reminds me of something from his Clandestine Castle Crashing Tolquhon Castle which shows he's still got it! ). It's also incredibly dangerous. While you blow up barrels to severely weaken your opposition in the aforementioned SLIDGE hallway, there will likely be a few Spectres remaining to chew away at your face. Funny story about the rocket launcher secret, I was totally convinced for a long time you could jump to it. Turns out that teleporter's only there if you fall in. The yellow key area's actually my favorite of the map. Influenced by id, yet having clear originality in the design, this is the culmination of the original goal. You can circle around and reach the outdoor gazebo that way if you fall in the blood. Be careful though, the Baron here is quite a pain keyboard-only. In this playthrough, I didn't pick up the Chaingun until grabbing the yellow key, so i was annoyed by the Imps for longer. I also like how you can quickly get back to the blood river from another hidden passage. The large lava-filled room behind the yellow key door is somewhat underwhelming, though it sort of makes up for it with the Barons and Cacodemons that suck away your ammo. Those structures in the middle are decent, and there's actually a switch here that opens up a nearby secret. I didn't realize the teleporter in this room takes you to an alcove right next to the open exit hallway, so I spent a minute and a half or so picking up yet more secrets (the seemingly useless computer map, or is it? lol) was acquired by pushing a basically anonymous wall, while a passage out of the slime was spotted mainly from my automap, though an ammo clip marks the spot. After some time, I found the exit, expended practically all of my ammo on the enemies within, then realized I'd picked up a Berserk Pack earlier, which would have made handling the pinkies most likely quicker. I ultimately exited at 12:13 with 87 percent of the secrets. Oh, who am I kidding. This is the finest map in the initial collection by a country mile, other than the, you know, secret map of E3. I think Mr. Freeze's replacement track works quite well here. Grade: A Difficulty: C 7 Share this post Link to post
dei_eldren Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) E3M5 Chapel of Scorn (HMP, continuous, blind): K 100%, I 99%, S 87%, D 1, T 42:28 Spoiler Chapel of Scorn consists of three main areas, two buildings of stone and an outside area connecting them, finally somewhat reminiscent of Slough of Despair. This time the enemy count is over a hundred, but the map also feels longer, and the increased enemy count is only felt in a couple of situations, when a modest horde of enemies throws itself at the player's embrace. The encounters aren't quite as threatening as in earlier maps, and the map in general is probably not as oppressive as M3 or M4, but that is somewhat of a relief for a change. Visually the map does not remind me of anything in Inferno but is regardless gorgeously fashioned (and my liking of the visuals in this episode does not imply i would not like the visuals in the OG - i do, always have and always will, i for one think Sandy is not at all incompetent visually - the atmosphere he creates is just completely different, probably having much to do with the lighting - it's like difference between horror movies Bad Taste and Attack on Precinct 13, and i'm not referring to former being campy, i was too young when i saw it to consider it a comedy...Bad Taste gave me nightmares.) Damaging floors were used, again, to great effect, along with Lost Souls, and the long secret tunnel of lava cost me my only life in Chapel of Scorn. As a sidenote, i do believe John Romero must have played through this WAD, among others, in his research for creating Si666il (or he perhaps simply over the years enjoyed playing PWADs and keeping up with how Doom was being developed by the community - i have listened to many of his interviews but don't really know which is more likely or correct.) Despite the map being enjoyable to play through, my favourite element became the well-designed secrets. i netted 7/8, not being able to open the one outside, which i now realize, would have teleported me to the BFG seen along the way. i was ready to give up after uncovering four of them, but then found the CAM, and subsequently two more. The most embarrassing occurrence was that i'd completely forgotten where i had acquired the YSK, and got into my head (an ide fixe) that place must have been a secret, from which to access the one outside by teleport :/ And forgetting there was a BFG... It's no reflexion on this map that it's in the last place in E3 in my grading - for me the style and quality of this episode is just extraordinary. i guess the deciding factor is the less threatening quality of the encounters, even if i do enjoy it, not quite as much as the challenge of the last two maps. On the other hand, like i said in the beginning, it is nevertheless just what the doctor ordered (only used a turn of phrase, because i never listen to whatever doctors order.) Not a breather, just a slight decrease in the oppressiveness, so it doesn't get stifling. What it comes to the OG E3M5 (i actually can't recall the name right now, likely CoS is a derivation of it), i agree with the general consensus that it's not the greatest map, yet i do think it's valid - it's a gimmick, and while the gameplay is somewhat cumbersome, i still like it that it's there for its idea. And there's only one of them. Unholy Cathedral! (Thanks BMD...) Who's Who Spoiler Episode Three E3M1 - Abyssal Stronghold - 10+/10 E3M3 - Malebolge - 10+/10 E3M2 - City of Corpses - 10/10 E3M4 - Torture Chambers - 9.5/10 E3M5 - Chapel of Scorn - 9/10 Episode Two E2M6 - Foundry - 10+/10 E2M1 - Receiving Station - 9.5/10 E2M4 - Mental Ward - 9.5/10 E2M7 - Ore Processing - 9/10 E2M3 - Rec Facility - 9/10 E2M2 - Filtration Compound - 9/10 E2M5 - Deimos Command - 8/10 (2-point penalty for design choices) E2M8 - Vault - 6.5/10 Episode One E1M7 - Logic Core - 10/10 E1M9 - Excavation Site - 9.5/10 E1M5 - Engineering Bay - 9.5/10 E1M6 - Reactor Complex - 9/10 E1M2 - Military Bunker - 8.5/10 E1M4 - Treatment Plant - 8/10 E1M3 - Fuel Synthesis - 8/10 E1M8 - Transport Facility - 8/10 E1M1 - Communications Bridge - 7/10 6 Share this post Link to post
Book Lord Posted February 18, 2022 E3M5 – Chapel of Scorn by @pcorf Doomsday Engine, UV-Fast, Continuous, blind run w/saves If you ask me what the most representative texture of Doom’s Inferno is, I will surely answer GSTONE1. Marble blocks were the favourite construction material of the demonic legions who invaded the UAC bases; they used it to build their twisted shrines, temples, and the horrific dungeons where they tortured the damned. Unholy Cathedral was the level that glorified that texture by wrapping every room with it, alternating it with its close relative SP_HOT1 and only a few other textures. Pcorf’s Chapel of Scorn was a celebration of that hellish imagery, imprinted in our eyes and brains since 1993, polished and twisted into a multi-faceted level. This amazing creation condensed many scenes and memories from the original third episode, together with a lot of ideas that would be at home in a map by Sandy Petersen. It began in a marble chamber with a yellow door and only one way to go ahead. A skull switch triggered a worrisome Imp teleport, as -fast Imps are lethal if they get a clear shot on you in such numbers. Pistol starters are going to have a hard time without weapons and ammo to deal with the Imps, so they must get outside and steal a shotgun as soon as possible. Spoiler As a continuous player, I explored the outdoor area quite comfortably; I must only be careful not to fall prey of sneaky Shotgun guys and Pinkies on steroids. This place reminded me the jagged monoliths in Slough of Despair, only in ROCKRED3, with vibes from Mt. Erebus as well. Some Imps guarded a switch in an alcove; it opened the door to the eastern building, possibly the Chapel of Scorn itself, marked by fiery inverted crosses at the sides. The inside hosted the RSK, which I grabbed from below before following the intended path to its ledge. A lot of switches revealed a teleporter pad leading to the YSK, which I entered after exploring the lava tunnels and finding a secret plasma rifle. Spoiler Back to the starting room, the section beyond the locked door hosted another switch hunt to raise the stairs to the exit door. I was almost killed by the Sergeant & Lost Soul combo released at some point, and I called pcorf bad names for loving those muddling biters so much. The BFG on display was such a tease that I refused to leave the area without solving its puzzle. The sumptuous chain of teleporters leading to it was a good reward for the required patience. To leave the map, I must get the BSK in the nearby section. This featured a Lost Soul attack in the middle of crushers, then a large marble courtyard with a blood pit. Picking up the key released the largest teleport ambush seen so far, another tribute to Unholy Cathedral. I prioritised the flying creatures coming from the northern closets, while the fodder on the ground happily killed each other. After Zone 400 I know how pcorf tends to arrange his surprise attacks, and that I can exploit the aggressiveness of -fast monsters. Spoiler Chapel of Scorn was an extraordinary journey down the memory lane of Episode 3. It included a cameo from every OG map, and its action kept me constantly busy, challenging me several times on UV-fast. It was not a flawless level though, with a handful of small oversights, for example the secret rocket launcher reached by means of a single-use teleport line, non-exclusive to the player. Weapons and monster placement did not seem optimised for pistol starting, so I can see people complaining a lot; as a continuous player, I enjoyed myself immensely slaughtering demons in this sanctuary of hell. 8 Share this post Link to post
TJG1289 Posted February 19, 2022 GZDoom/UV/Continuous/Saves E3M1: Abyssal Stronghold - ellmo 100% kills and 50% secrets Time: 6:30 Card: One monster is cursed. Killing it will resurrect nearby monsters This card can be annoying once maps get higher kill counts. This map, a lost soul was cursed, and I was able to kill it far away from corpses. This is another map that I would say is id enhanced. Like, if id had more experience making maps they would make this. It looks a lot nicer, and the architecture is more refined. It's a lot less cramped than the IWAD's first map, and the overall environmental design plus map layout is just better. Like the original E3M1, this one is pretty linear, with a side path to take for a shotgun. Imps, pinkies, cacos, and lost souls are around, and you'll have to pistol a caco pretty early, just like the original! Thankfully, there's a box of bullets right behind it, but I did punch it a bit. I tried to save shells by pistoling imps and punching some pinkies. I think this is the first map where I couldn't figure out one of the secrets. I know where it is, but I didn't feel like spending a ton of time trying to figure it out. I'm a few days behind as it is! For sure a solid opener to the third ep. E3M2: City of Corpses - Walter Confalonieri + ellmo 100% kills and secrets Time: 12:33 Card: Barons are partially invisible This map is a mostly outdoor affair, with a giant open area to run around in. Shotgunners make their E3 debut here too, and there's quite a few here with imps and pinkies. The general layout I can see id doing for the most part, though the path leading to the yellow skull having a bunch of cubbies open with lost souls is more of a Casali thing. I'm not used to keys being free. All 3 keys are obtained without a trap being sprung. The giant yellow key room sure seems like something is going to happen, but nothing did. I guess it was just to house the 3 cacos. Idk if the previous map's 2nd secret had either a rocket launcher or a plasma rifle, but both are here. The RL is a secret right by the red key, and the plasma is through a teleporter in the red door building. Seems like that should have been a secret. The baron guarding the exit is easy to deal with, so no issues there. For being such a relatively big map, it feels sorta empty, and doesn't really pose much of a threat. It was fine tho. Also, shoutout to the cacos in red rooms they can't get out of. The first straight-up E3 homage that I've noticed. E3M3: Malebolge - Icytux 100% kills and secrets Time: 14:55 Card: Cacodemons shove nearby entities on death Caco dies, things nearby go flying. Hopefully goodies don't get shoved into any inescapable pits! This map is more mazy than the last two, automatically giving it a more id-like feel. You're going to be exploring a lot of windy tunnels, both of the rock and marble variety. There's more barons here, including one in the starting room, so pistol starters are gonna have a hard time. 10 secrets are present, and only 1 really gave me trouble, and that was the BFG, finally making its appearance in the WAD. I also would have liked to find the secret that lowers the mega armor before I found the mega armor secret. Combat is what's to be expected, but I did like the trap at the yellow key. A caco appears behind you, so you jump back down to safety, only to have an alcove open with a baron in it down with you. Plasma works wonders here. Despite having a lower monster count is lower than the last map's, there's more barons and the fights are in closer quarters, making this one a little tougher. So far, this is the most id-like map in the ep, and the most interesting to explore. 4 Share this post Link to post
NiGHTS108 Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) E3M5: Chapel Of Scorn By Pcorf Kills: 80% Items: 32% Secrets: 12% Time: 6:36 Huh, Pcorf's only appearance? Really? For the author of 2002: A Doom Odyssey I'm surprised this guy didn't have more maps, anyway, Chapel Of Scorn is another DTWID Inferno map I'm not crazy for unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with Unholy Cathedral thank god, but it's still not very memorable for me sadly, the path to the red key I totally forgot about until I revisited this map for review, it does have the Baron fight over the bridge of lava which is kinda pretty, I guess? The hardest part of the map comes when you pick up the blue key, beware of the hitscanners repopulating the room you came from or you're one cooked goose! That is, again, virtually this map's only difficulty, however this map's biggest reward comes from a rock wall outside, not only will you find 240 cells and a beautiful, mouthwatering BFG9000 waiting for you, but you'll also get a shortcut through the level and a jump on all the bad guys! How cool! Sadly I didn't find this on my playthrough and it was only writing this review did I take a look to find how to get the BFG, sad face :( Grade: C- Difficulty: C+ Edited February 19, 2022 by NiGHTS108 7 Share this post Link to post
DJVCardMaster Posted February 19, 2022 E3M4 - Torture Chambers - Captain Toenail & Hellbent *Sandy Petersen* (100%K/78%I/62%S): Again, strong vibes from Romero (from what we could see from it in both E4 and Sigil) and some strong layout traits from Tom Hall, compressed layouts, a central area similar to most of his "central hubs", usally present in his maps, and of course, the little small maze/trail south-west. The rest of the areas look like Sandy could have made it, but of anyways, this is a really nice layout overall, solid gameplay, and the level itself has quite a personality, specially the dark square corridors south of the level. Getting to the exit may feel confusing, but it is just like the original E3M4, which was a pain in the ass, and possibly one of the worst moments of the original Doom (the room with the switch pillars).IDness ratio: 3/5 (UV Playthrough - Crispy Doom)Order of Preference: Spoiler E3M3 E2M6 E1M4 E2M7 E1M7E3M4 E2M1 E3M2 E2M9 E2M2 E1M5 E1M6 E3M1 E1M3 E2M4 E1M2 E1M8 E1M1 E1M9 E2M8 E2M5 E2M3 6 Share this post Link to post
DavitW Posted February 19, 2022 E3M4: Torture Chambers This is a map I remembered very well despite playing it just as much as any other map so far. There's a few amusing crushers here like the one right at the start and a few more behind the blue key door you can use to crush a few hapless imps. Overall tt looks good and has a very organic flow to it, there's not too many other maps like this one out there. E3M5: Chapel of Scorn These maps have some very early 90's death metal names to them don't they? Both of these maps also looked much better than anything in the original episode 3. Like, almost too good to fit the aesthetic of the wad. It's a tight quarters map for the most part, and there's plenty of hurt floor and crushers around to restrict your movement even further. Finding the secrets is very important from a pistol start here as it's the only way to get a rocket launcher, plasma rifle, or BFG. You're definitely going to want something stronger for all the Cacodemons and Barons towards the end of this map. e3m4.zip e3m5.zip 8 Share this post Link to post
Agent Slacker Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) E3M5: Chapel of Scorn DOOM Retro, UV, Continuous w/saves, played on my Steam Controller, affectionately named "Shuichi" My beloved. My Super Shotgun. My Light Amplification Visor in E2M6, Halls of the Damned. I am so happy we can be together again to rip and tear. I sometimes forget that Sandy Peterson levels were the definition of utilitarian; maps that, above all else, were about gameplay. They were never the prettiest maps. This is a very pretty map. Beautiful, even. From the marble interiors of the beginning room, to the front of what I assume is the Chapel of Scorn itself, with bright red inverted crosses on either side of the entryway. Like a lot of my favorite maps in DOOM, this one flows very well. It was always easy to know where to go next, and there was plenty of gibbitude to be had on the way to my next destination. Some fun encounters include the one at the beginning of the map with the teleporting imps, the showdown with the Baron across a bridge surrounded by fire and brimstone, and the onslaught of teleporting enemies when grabbing the blue key from the center of a toxic pool. This was very nice map indeed, and definitely one of my favorites of this episode. Edited February 19, 2022 by Agent Slacker : Woops, lost track of which map I was on 8 Share this post Link to post