Mancubi & tag 666...

[netnomad312]

From what I've learned recently (correct me if I'm wrong), killing all the Mancubi in Level 7 triggers tag #666. In level 7 of my megawad, I think that's causing a problem. I have no tag named 666, but strange things are happening. There is only one Mancubus in the level, and when I use FHHALL at the start of the level when testing it, everything works fine.

When I don't use FHHALL, funny things happen. There are two turbo-doors to the area with the Mancubus. If I didn't use FHHALL, the doors will open once, and then every time they try to close, they seem to open again (basically, they don't move, but the door open sound plays). Later on in the level, one switch lowers a platform with a key and a teleport on it. Sometimes this platform does not lower, and I've also attributed this to the Mancubus problem.

A floor is supposed to lower when you kill the Mancubi, I think that's the problem. But I have no tag 666. How can I fix this? Do I need a tag 666 so that nothing else is affected?

[myk]

That's weird. That tag only works if you place it in the map and there should be no strange side effects, if I'm not mistaken. Try using some other engine to see if that is a doom95 bug.

[netnomad312]

Update:
I tried making an object with tag 666: a sector with a BFG9000 on it (I planned to put one in the level anyway). Sure enough, it lowered after I killed the Mancubi (I now have three in there around the BFG). But the bugs still occur. Here's what you're supposed to do:

Enter the room through either door. Shoot the Arachnotrons across the radiation river, then shoot the switch to form a bridge across the river. Once across, take either path around to see the Mancubi and the BFG. Killing the Mancubi gives you the BFG, and you can also access a switch. This switch opens a door that you can reach by following the river of radiation. Behind the door are a few various enemies, staircases, and a switch. This switch forms the other bug: it's supposed to lower a platform back in the Arachnotron room, on the side of the river that you came in on, but if I don't use FHHALL, it doesn't. You have to return to the room and get the key on the platform, but then you'll be warped into a sort of arena with some various enemies. You open another door to the teleport which returns you to the Arachnotron room, and at about the same time, the other two pillars in that room lower to reveal a pair of chaingunners. And, of course, those two pillars don't work either.

I've also tried giving one sector the tag 667, which I've learned applies to killing all the Arachnotrons. That didn't work, either.

[Erik]

are you experienced with wad editing? are you sure that everything else about the triggers is correct? I don't think the 666 and 667 tags has anything to do with your problems really.

[Nanami]

Just so you know, 667 raises stairs by 16 when you kill all the Arachnotrons, it doesn't lower a wall.

[netnomad312]

Nanami: That's exacly what I found out.

Erik: I'm sure of it. Every time I used FHHALL it was fine, but every time I didn't something went wrong.

Sigh... perhaps I should upload the level to show you all?

[Enjay]

Nanami said:

Just so you know, 667 raises stairs by 16 when you kill all the Arachnotrons, it doesn't lower a wall.

I think it's slightly more complex than that. I *think* it's something like it raises a sector by the height of its shortest textures on its lower side defs. I was certainly able to use it to raise sectors by 128 in the past anyway.

[Cyb]

What is FHHALL? This sounds like it may be some sort of port issue, as I have used those tags in vanilla doom and zdoom maps, but I dunno.

Also, Enjay is correct, killing all the 'trons on map07 will raise a sector tagged 667 the height of the lower texture, though I'm not sure what happens when you put textures of different heights, but I assume it will raise it to the height of the lowest one *shrugs*

[myk]

Yes, I was telling him to try the map with another engine. FHHALL is doom95's mass monster kill cheat.

[netnomad312]

Instead of posting the level, I've posted a print preview of the area. All things have been deleted from the preview, but "M" is a mancubus, "A" is an Arachnotron, and "C" is a Cacodemon. There are also various other enemies around. The numbers on the picture are described at the top. Open this link in a new window (I can't do remote linking):

http://netnomad0312.tripod.com/problems.jpg

[Use]

myk said:

Yes, I was telling him to try the map with another engine. FHHALL is doom95's mass monster kill cheat.

really, I didnt know this at all!

[netnomad312]

I didn't know that was only a Doom95 cheat, but that does make sense, since it also works in Doom. FHSHH, the other cheat, makes you invisible to monsters until you attack them (then the non-deaf ones will attack).

[netnomad312]

Oh, but there's one sort of bug with FHHALL: it doesn't kill Lost Souls. This is because, since Pain Elementals produce unlimited numbers of them, it would throw off the kill ratio if they were included in it. So, they weren't. In addition, FHHALL will leave behind lost souls where Pain Elementals died (naturally).

[Use]

netnomad312 said:

This is because, since Pain Elementals produce unlimited numbers of them...

Not unlimited, not in Doom95 anyway. Goto map09 of Doom2 on ultaviolence and watch the pain elementals.

[Nanami]

netnomad312 said:

Oh, but there's one sort of bug with FHHALL: it doesn't kill Lost Souls. This is because, since Pain Elementals produce unlimited numbers of them, it would throw off the kill ratio if they were included in it. So, they weren't. In addition, FHHALL will leave behind lost souls where Pain Elementals died (naturally).

Actually, I'm sure it has nothing to do with Pain Elementals and everything to do with the fact that Lost Souls don't have an "is a monster" bit. Look in DeHacked. I also just learned a new cheat code. =D

Oh, and the stair thing, I never knew that. I just tested it in MAP07 and assumed it was a stair raise 16. Neato, thanks for pointing that out, guys.