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Julia Nechaevskaya

International Doom 7.4 / Heretic 7.0 / Hexen 7.0 (updated March 8, 2024)

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Is there a way to get the Inter-Heretic (Windows) binaries? They are not available on Github in the "Releases" section. They would still have to be built manually or...?

Edited by NightFright

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1 hour ago, NightFright said:

Is there a way to get the Inter-Heretic (Windows) binaries? They are not available on Github in the "Releases" section. They would still have to be built manually or...?

 

Inter-Heretic is not officially released yet, so they have to be built manually. I have send you a message.

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No, there are no "actions" or auto builds. In general, Heretic is almost finished and perfectly playable, but there are still a few small things that need attention. As planned, it's been completely reviewed, mostly rewritten and rebuilt from scratch. Well, almost from scratch, because same Doom's story, I reused my CRL-Heretic, which apart from a cool menu system was mostly a bare bone Chocolate Heretic, but after all the changes only a few functions of original RenderLimits are left: render counters and spectator mode.

 

In terms of features, it's free of bloat ones and resource dependency, it's demo/multiplayer safe, and of course it has 1x-6x resolutions and semi-optional* true color renderer (*translucency effects always use true color dynamic calculations). Nothing really special, you already saw it all in Doom, but it fits perfectly into the "small and simple" philosophy.

 

The honest answer to the "when" question is "hopefully soon", but believe me, doing things in rush is never a good idea. 🙂

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30 minutes ago, Horizon said:

unless this is intentional, D_E4M# lumps don't play without IDMUS

 

You mean WITH IDMUS?

 

When i start the fourth episode or IDCLEV to fourth episode with Inter-DOOM 7.3 the music is there.

 

But when i start any episode and do IDMUS 41 Inter-DOOM crashes.

That happens with latest self-built Inter-DOOM too as i checked now.

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1 minute ago, Meerschweinmann said:

 

You mean WITH IDMUS?

 

When i start the fourth episode or IDCLEV to fourth episode with Inter-DOOM 7.3 the music is there.

 

But when i start any episode and do IDMUS 41 Inter-DOOM crashes.

That happens with latest self-built Inter-DOOM too as i checked now.

Doom doesn't internally contain D_E4M# lumps - E4 reuses lumps from other episodes
 

E4M1 - D_E3M4: "Sign of Evil"
E4M2 - D_E3M2: "Donna to the Rescue"
E4M3 - D_E3M3: "Deep into the Code"
E4M4 - D_E1M5: "Suspense"
E4M5 - D_E2M7: "Waltz of the Demons"
E4M6 - D_E2M4: "They're Going to Get You"
E4M7 - D_E2M6: "Sinister"
E4M8 - D_E2M5: "Demons on the Prey"
E4M9 - D_E1M9: "Hiding the Secrets"


I usually use the Ultimate MIDI Pack, so it does have them
if Inter-Doom didn't support them, IDMUS wouldn't work

here's a test WAD, using the first 9 of @jute's dave3d set of MIDIs
test.zip 

type IDCLEV4# when you're ingame and you should hear one of them

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19 minutes ago, Horizon said:

Doom doesn't internally contain D_E4M# lumps - E4 reuses lumps from other episodes

 

Yes, i know. I wasn't aware that you wanted to use separate lumps for the fourth episode.

 

Julia has fixed this on Github shortly after you mentioned it. Very very fast.

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Yeah, I've totally missed that part with dedicated tracks for Episode 4, thanks for pointing out, it should be fixed now. Not much happened in Doom since release though, 99% of time was spent on Heretic, but probably it will deserve a small point release sooner or later. SDL Mixer 2.8.0 has been recently released, and hopefully it have a fix for critical bug of looping OGG tracks, which tends to happen in Chocolate and Crispy from time to time.

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One small correction: it’s FLAC looping that has the crash, not OGG. And yes, it should be fixed in 2.8.0. 

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@Julia Nechaevskaya

I'm currently playing through a few pwads with Inter-Heretic. My findings will go straight to your Github, hopefully helping a bit with giving the port its final touch. It's already quite excellent, I gotta say. Last time I tried it was almost two years ago. And boy, has it come a long way since then.

 

It's sort of regrettable to see Hexen got dropped (for now), but obviously you are in the middle of a major code rewriting process. OFC it totally makes sense to not bite off more than you can chew. Also, Hexen is played even less than Heretic (which is at least very similar to Doom regarding gameplay). It can surely wait. 

 

PS: I never noticed that in Heretic, the player would only utter the famous "Oumph" sound when trying to use/push a locked door and not also normal walls, like in Doom. At first I thought that's a bug, but in Crispy it's the same. Unless it's bugged there as well. :)

Edited by NightFright

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Hah, I didn't realise inter-heretic didn't have a proper release yet. I better stop recommending it to everyone for the time being :p

 

As far as Hexen, the number of non-ZDoom Hexen maps is quite small compared to Heretic wads, which are already a tiny fraction of what's available for Doom and Doom 2, so I imagine the motivation to include it is even less than for Heretic.

 

And yes @NightFright no oof on normal walls is vanilla Heretic behaviour.

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Something else: Inter-Heretic has the swirling liquids option like Inter-Doom, but ingame it still uses vanilla animations even if swirling is activated. Is it currently still not supported or...?

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2 hours ago, NightFright said:

Something else: Inter-Heretic has the swirling liquids option like Inter-Doom, but ingame it still uses vanilla animations even if swirling is activated. Is it currently still not supported or...?

 

I can confirm that the blue water in E1M1 and red/black lava in E2M4 swirls. The gray/red glimming lava in the house of E2M4 does not swirl, but should it swirl?

 

Edited by Meerschweinmann

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Well, I have to say I was testing it in a pwad ("PUSS XXVIII: Quoth the Raven"). However, normally the effect should be applied, anyway. It was the same water texture. Just checked original E1M1 and the effect works there.

 

Whether that gray lava texture should swirl or not is debatable. IIRC I've seen it swirl in Crispy, but since it's (probably) lava that's about to cool down on the surface, it could be static.

Edited by NightFright

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@NightFright, rendering took only a couple of evenings, as it's almost a carbon copy of Doom, where everything was already polished. Major revisions and rewrites took almost two months. It's perfectly fine for a custom build to spread, it's not a secret project after all, and in its current state it's polished and should work well. I just hope you like it, as it is built not only with different video code, but also with a different philosophy. I don't openly provide any dev-builds because little things still change from time to time, and there are no automated builds on GitHub - frankly, I'm too lazy to figure out how to implement them and prefer to get executables built by my hands under my control. 🙂

 

Yes, Heretic's "oof" behaves differently, it's a Raven Software design. As for swirling liquids - is that pwad have ANIMDEFS clump? If so, then the code will handle it as per Crispy Doom standard, i.e. the animation speed must be equal to or greater than 65536, otherwise swirling will not work. AFAIR, it was done for compatibility and I followed the suite.

 

@Meerschweinmann, not sure such lava should swirl, it more looks like a coals. Probably not worth to touch it in all meanings. 🔥

 

As about Hexen... Well. I'll definitely come back to it at some point, but it needs true colour support. And that journey has begun. Again, no secrets as it's an open GitHub pull request, but please don't expect quick results, there are still a few headaches to be solved. I'd like it to appear in Crispy Hexes first, as true colour is Fabian's property, and it would be fair play if I did what I could there.

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14 minutes ago, Julia Nechaevskaya said:

not sure such lava should swirl, it more looks like a coals. Probably not worth to touch it in all meanings. 🔥

 

In my opinion it is good as it is. I saw it some weeks ago and for me it was "cold" lava that was glimming and stands still. So i did not see it as an issue. Glowing coals is a good description too.

Edited by Meerschweinmann

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On 1/27/2024 at 5:06 PM, NightFright said:

Well, I have to say I was testing it in a pwad ("PUSS XXVIII: Quoth the Raven"). However, normally the effect should be applied, anyway. It was the same water texture. Just checked original E1M1 and the effect works there.

 

Whether that gray lava texture should swirl or not is debatable. IIRC I've seen it swirl in Crispy, but since it's (probably) lava that's about to cool down on the surface, it could be static.

 

I have made a fast testmap and everything, except this cold lava/glimming coal floor, is swirling with this pwad.

So it seems that there is something special with the pwad you have used.

 

 

 

Edited by Meerschweinmann

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Update: I checked Quoth's ANIMATED lump. Apparently some flats are using 65536 as speed value, but by far not all of them. However, this was made to work with Crispy Heretic, so no idea what's going on. I have attached the lump so you can take a look.
 

-----------------------

 

Anyway, for what it's worth: Inter-Doom/Heretic rocks. I was sticking with Crispy for a while, but this is better (for what I want/expect from a vanilla port, that is). For that wonderfully implemented video menu with its on-the-fly setting changes alone it's already absolutely worth it. I wished Woof had it, too. Maybe one day. Thanks a lot for making vanilla even greater than before! The whole package shows a very solid intuition for picking the right parts from the best ports out there. The mix is excellently balanced and just hits the sweet spot for me, which is kind of Crispy+.

 

PS: At this point I believe Crispy would also profit from 600p as an additional resolution option. But I dunno how hard an implementation would be and, more importantly, whether the guidelines of that particular project would allow it or not.

 

ANIMATED.zip

Edited by NightFright

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13 hours ago, NightFright said:

For that wonderfully implemented video menu with its on-the-fly setting changes

 

I like it that there is no background in the menu and you can see instantly what and how the options change.

 

Inter-DOOM/Heretic has grown to a wonderful limit removing port that can look like the games did as i was a teen when they were released or, when i am in a more "faithful" hi-tec mood, shine in Software rendered truecolor with 600p or more and those things like colored blood, mirrored corpses, swirling flats and brightmaps.

It has everything the vanilla doomer in me needs.

As Nightfright said, a Crispy+.

 

By the way. The Crispy/Inter/Woof Family of ports scales lower resolutions with DOOMs 20% stretch in height very nice. A thing that more advanced ports seem not do as good.

But those more advanced ports are surely  primary not meant to play in low res.

Edited by Meerschweinmann

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Update regarding the ANIMATED issue:

If I set the values of the speed entries for all affected textures to 65536, it seems to work. The unchanged lump also won't let textures/flats swirl in latest Crispy Heretic, btw. To me it looks as if it was simply forgotten to set up some flats properly.

 

Bottom line: Not a port issue, rather a flawed/incomplete ANIMATED lump.

Edited by NightFright

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Double-post alert:
Took a first look at the new Inter-Hexen. Really neat! Ofc it's still rough, with the partial menu and the game crashing when trying to open the automap, but it's a very important and impressive first step.

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Hey, it's just two days old at this point! 😧 No optimizations at this point and still a lot of TODOs, automap will come a bit later (it's not very exiting), first I need more or less form in-game menu. At the moment, I primary need it as a experimental field for true color support. Haven't traveled in the game much, but first impressions was quite positive, colors looks pretty clean.


Examples of normal and foggy maps in 6x true color mode:

Spoiler

image.png.5522769c8fd6cb6a57ed1772792d2c38.png

 

image.png.41d09126b91778105ae89e98ad49f8b1.png


 

 

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5 hours ago, TuxWare said:

Will this port ever be ported to linux?

It works great in Linux now but you have to compile it yourself. If you've compiled other source ports before, the process is quite similar. If not, I can walk you through it, but it really helps if you have some familiarity with the command line.

 

@Julia Nechaevskaya is on Windows so a flatpak/appimage/etc. is unlikely any time soon. I have zero experience with those systems so I'm not really a good person to make one.

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@TuxWare Sure. I'm not sure what the dependencies are, but you'll need at least sdl2, sdl2-mixer, sdl2-net, fluidsynth, cmake. If your OS divides things into normal and dev versions, you need the dev packages.

 

Then get the sources:

 

If you want the dev version, enter 'git clone https://github.com/JNechaevsky/international-doom.git' in a terminal (needs git), or download https://github.com/JNechaevsky/international-doom/archive/refs/heads/main.zip. Using git is better because then you can just type 'git pull' in the international-doom directory to update it, but the zip works fine.

If you want the stable version, download the .tar.gz source code under Assets at https://github.com/JNechaevsky/international-doom/releases/tag/7.3

 

I'd recommend the dev version, it's perfectly usable for Doom and Heretic, Hexen is currently under development and will compile but won't be entirely working. The stable version has Doom only.

 

In any case, once you have that, do this:

cd international-doom
mkdir build
cd build
cmake .. && make

If that doesn't work you might be missing a dependency, see if you can figure out what from the error messages, if not post here. Then run 'cmake .. && make' from the build directory again.

 

Once it compiles, then the inter-* binaries are in the build/src directory. You can run them from there or copy them somewhere that's in your path, like /usr/local/bin. AFAICT there's no automatic install.

 

Hopefully you can get it going from that, feel free to ask for more help if you can't figure it out.

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One observation from my current Inter-Heretic sessions:

It happened twice to me now that I had hanging MIDI notes. And I'm not speaking of just one note hanging and the rest of the song continuing. It was a single note, muting all others, which kept playing until I quit the game or change level. Once it was with custom music, the other time even the default Heretic track used in E3M6.

 

This is a surprise since I assume Inter-Doom/Heretic share Woof's sound code, including its most recent improvements regarding Sysex commands and MIDI playback. In Woof I haven't had such an issue since ages, I must say. 

 

My config is somewhat specific and I dunno if it has anything to do with it. I'm using Falcosoft's VST MIDI Driver in combination with the S-YXG50 VSTi plugin and the Coolsoft MIDI Mapper (Win 10 x64).

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