[Released & updated] Infection

[exl]

27 minutes ago, bobbotron said:

The use of ambient noises and the running water really adds something to this map. I greatly enjoyed the audio portion of it, especially the fan and machine hum, it really adds to the ambience. I had to update to the latest version of GZDoom, I was on the last major version and a lot of these didn't work out of the box.

 

I noticed that they work well in some ports, and somewhat odd in others. They'll only play when you get nearby for example. But in the end I figured having them is a net positive so kept them in. Some special code pointers\actions in a next Dehacked extension (MBF22?) would be needed to make ambient sounds much more reliable across ports. That said, previous versions of GZDoom don't all support DEHEXTRA, so the ambient sounds (and a lot of new vegetation things) would simply be missing.

[bobbotron]

2 minutes ago, exl said:

 

I noticed that they work well in some ports, and somewhat odd in others. They'll only play when you get nearby for example. But in the end I figured having them is a net positive so kept them in. Some special code pointers\actions in a next Dehacked extension (MBF22?) would be needed to make ambient sounds much more reliable across ports. That said, previous versions of GZDoom don't all support DEHEXTRA, so the ambient sounds (and a lot of new vegetation things) would simply be missing. 

 

Ah interesting. I think I might have noticed that, but overall your brain smooths things out pretty quickly. I found they were super enjoyable, it really adds something to the maps.

[rando]

The following door in map03 can't be opened using dsdadoom (tried with complevel 9 and 21):

Spoiler

[exl]

On 4/3/2022 at 12:58 AM, rando said:

The following door in map03 can't be opened using dsdadoom (tried with complevel 9 and 21):

Fixed that, thanks.

 

It is now also finally on /idgames! Thanks again to everyone who tested and gave input!

[kwc]

Oh sweet, congrats on the release, @exl
Gonna give this another go, not that I needed an excuse ;)

[unraveler]

Found a certain green fella 🤓

See if you can find him too

Edited April 12, 2022 by unraveler

[Scorpio]

Hi! Starting from the 6th level, textures named "junk" and some sprites are damaged. GZDoom 4.7.1. and mac OS 12.3.1. Reinstalling the files did not give anything :(

[baja blast rd.]

That is intended and you should probably spoiler warning the whole post lol

[Scorpio]

26 minutes ago, baja blast rd. said:

That is intended and you should probably spoiler warning the whole post lol

Oh! So this is how it should be?!

[TheCyberDruid]

5 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

Oh! So this is how it should be?!

 

Just play a bit further and you'll see what's going on :)

[Scorpio]

17 minutes ago, TheCyberDruid said:

 

Just play a bit further and you'll see what's going on :)

Shame on me! This is very unexpected... and very cool! Great job! :)))

[exl]

4 hours ago, Scorpio said:

Shame on me! This is very unexpected... and very cool! Great job! :)))

 

I'm very happy that feels "real enough" for someone to mistake it as an actual problem :)

 

As a sidenote, the junk textures and flats are data from the Doom 2 IWAD and executable interpreted as pixel data. You might even recognize some stretched out sprites and textures in them.

[pampoo79]

now that was 5/5. I like the use of environmental sound effects, they really add a lot. You do a good job not letting the player get lost. I really enjoyed being able to play this kinda mindlessly although I still had to "cheat" and look at the GZDoom map for keyed doors at times but overall the flow was excellent without feeling like a "tube" map at all.

 

critique: the first few maps or so were a bit too easy (actually the whole wad is on the easy side), I finished them with lots of unused ammo and I understand that you start slow and thats ok but there were really no challenging enemy encounters. Made me switch to UV quickly. My first secret on the other hand I only found in map03 or so, I guess I just have another way of looking for those as you. the idea introduced at the end is really cool and I like the idea of returning to this "slaughter" map. But I was a bit disappointed I finished it without basically killing any enemies. It was just too easy dodging everything and looking for progression through switches. I also think it would be cool if the map ended with the cyberdemon in the tube dying (I kinda expected that, very cool idea too btw).

 

e: I actually didnt pistol start the first few maps because I felt like I picked up certain weapons for nothing (no need to use, too much ammo). After map03 or so I pistol started and the balance was better. I think you have to take out a bit ammo in the first one or two maps to balance it, although some folks here complained about too little ammo. They probably pistol started all maps. The challenge of balancing maps without pistol start is much higher as ammo/monster mismatch adds up gradually so its probably good to put in some more work there. I wish I recorded playing this, but I never know if I even finish a map... this one was certainly enjoyable to the end

Edited April 22, 2022 by pampoo79

[exl]

I've been wanting to update/extend this a bit, so have been working on at least one additional map for it: infectib_map03.zip. This only contains the new map, MAP03, which is pistol-startable. All other maps are not present in this build. Hopefully the quality is equal to that of the existing maps.

 

Edit: and some screenshots of the new MAP03.

[Biodegradable]

Great work, @exl! I had a good time with it. It's just as sweet as the other maps.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Biodegradable

[exl]

On 10/29/2022 at 4:21 PM, Biodegradable said:

Great work, @exl! I had a good time with it. It's just as sweet as the other maps.

 

Thanks for the demo, these are always a big help! I see that missing out on the soulsphere caused some health anxiety, so I'll make that section a bit more eye-catching (but still optional).

[Toilet_Wine_Connoisseur]

just finished this mapset, very very good! had a lot of fun love the use of ambient sounds to really heighten the mood of the environment and also that "escape route" map bait and switch is 100% genius and elevated this mappack to the next level! 

[exl]

Glad you liked it! Were you able to test the extra map (MAP03 from this build)?

[Gregor]

I'm a bit confused about the complevels. You say it's complv 21 but also that it runs in PrBoom+um, but Prboom+/um doesn't have MBF21 support.

[exl]

15 hours ago, Gregor said:

I'm a bit confused about the complevels. You say it's complv 21 but also that it runs in PrBoom+um, but Prboom+/um doesn't have MBF21 support.

 

Hmm, I think that is indeed wrong. I might have gotten it confused with supporting DEHEXTRA or something. I've tested with DSDADoom, and complevel 10 works perfectly fine. complevel 9 will also work, but there without ambient sounds (courtesy of the PlaySound state action). I';'l define a COMPLVL lump for "mbf" for any possible future release.

[Gregor]

5 hours ago, exl said:

 

Hmm, I think that is indeed wrong. I might have gotten it confused with supporting DEHEXTRA or something. I've tested with DSDADoom, and complevel 10 works perfectly fine. complevel 9 will also work, but there without ambient sounds (courtesy of the PlaySound state action). I';'l define a COMPLVL lump for "mbf" for any possible future release.

So it's MBF-compatible then, right? I'm just asking for the wiki article. Boom-compatible works but is not the intended experience with the lack of ambient sounds.

[exl]

Correct, it uses the PlaySound state action so it requires MBF compatibility. And a port that supports DEHEXTRA and UMAPINFO.

[Gregor]

Could you give a list of the midis you used? i recognize some of them but not all.

[exl]

Fight the Logic If You Can (short intro) by Chris Laverdure (intermission text, ending)
Cookie Fangs by Cammy (MAP01)
Reaching Deeper by Eris Falling (MAP02)
Library Part 2 by Muddy (MAP03)
Hangar 7 by Jimmy (MAP04)
Arcadia by Velvetic (MAP05)
No More History by Cammy (title, intermission, MAP06)
The Anthrax Solution by Varis Alpha (MAP07)

[Gez]

14 hours ago, Gregor said:

So it's MBF-compatible then, right? I'm just asking for the wiki article. Boom-compatible works but is not the intended experience with the lack of ambient sounds.

Boom-compatible as base requirement, MBF21-compatible as recommended specs.

 

It's kind of like Eviternity, which has special GZDoom enhancements but is still playable in a MBF-compatible port.

[Gregor]

6 hours ago, Gez said:

Boom-compatible as base requirement, MBF21-compatible as recommended specs.

 

It's kind of like Eviternity, which has special GZDoom enhancements but is still playable in a MBF-compatible port.

MBF21? But what exactly requires MBF21 specifically? Sure it's not just plain MBF?

[Gez]

42 minutes ago, Gregor said:

MBF21? But what exactly requires MBF21 specifically? Sure it's not just plain MBF?

Well it's neither MBF21 nor just plain MBF since you also need DEHEXTRA support (look at the dehacked code and notice all the thing numbers that are in the 151+ range) as well as UMAPINFO. It's true that you can have MBF+DEHEXTRA+UMAPINFO without having MBF21 but in practice I believe PrBoom+UM is the only port that fits that specific profile.

[Gregor]

I played through the set for the first time a while ago but only now played the bonus Map03: cool set overall with the ambient sound effects and some nice, cozy techbase designs. Not too hard either, so it was a relaxed little playthrough for a change. Really dig the corruption theme at the end - only wished it would have been introduced earlier and used more prominently throughout the wad. I'm a pistolstarter so some of the ammo deprivation in the the earlier maps was frustrating at first, but it got a lot better for the rest of the set where it wasn't an issue anymore. The music selection is excellent throughout; i particularly like the opener and the explosive start it brings to the set - might be one my favorite beginnings to a wad ever.

 

My only major complaint apart from the under utilization of the corruption theme is the obscurity of a lot the secrets. For most of them one has to resolve to pure random wall hugging since there are almost no hints to their location otherwise, and even then it often doesn't get you far because you are required to first flip a switch somewhere in a room halfway across the map with no clue as to what that switch does. At times it felt like you didn't want those secrets to be found. For a completionist like me it was quite the test of patience at times, and i often ended up opening the map up in UDB as a last resort because a wiki article didn't exist yet (since i was writing it). Also, quite a few of them didn't feel particularly rewarding once opened considering the effort that is required to finding them. Safe to say, i'm not huge fan of the secrets in this wad. I'm sure there were also quite a few them that were just fine, but of course, i only remember the bad.

 

It wasn't a dealbreaker for me in the end though since i really enjoyed the fights and atmosphere in the maps, especially the last the two maps. It's a gorgeous little set and also one that grew on me over time.

The added map03 looks and plays nicely but the layout seemed especially labyrinthine for this one, to the the point where it became difficult to orient myself. Also the secrets were once again "well hidden". ;) But i liked the flow of the map and the more non-linear nature of the layout. 

 

Overall, i give this set a big thumbs up. Thank you for making it. I had a blast!

[exl]

Thanks for the feedback Gregor! I want to do more with the corruption stuff in an extra map, if I get some good ideas for that. Maybe later this year.

 

As for the secrets I'm always conflicted about those. If I make them easy to find players will end up with too much ammo and health, as I consider secrets "optional". If I then also make secrets more rewarding that balance gets even worse. If I leave them as "hard" to find as they are now, health & ammo balance stays where it should be, with the reward being an easier playthrough if the player does find secrets. Are there any methods or example map(sets) that do this more satisfactory while keeping balance somewhat intact?

[Gregor]

On 1/8/2023 at 10:45 AM, exl said:

As for the secrets I'm always conflicted about those. If I make them easy to find players will end up with too much ammo and health, as I consider secrets "optional". If I then also make secrets more rewarding that balance gets even worse. If I leave them as "hard" to find as they are now, health & ammo balance stays where it should be, with the reward being an easier playthrough if the player does find secrets. Are there any methods or example map(sets) that do this more satisfactory while keeping balance somewhat intact?

 

Well, this is difficult to answer since what you consider the "right" balance for secrets is very subjective. I'd say most mapsets play fine without finding any secrets, but i always go for 100% in every map i play, so I'm probably the wrong person to properly assess the difference in balancing.

 

But for me, the main issue wasn't the contents or placement of the secrets but the lack of consistent environmental telegraphing. The secrets don't have to be more rewarding if that's the balance you go for but i think there should be a consistent language of telegraphing their location for those searching for them. Otherwise it becomes a chore rather than a fun sidequest. Not that there weren't any hints, but they were often so subtle that they didn't really stick out as anything unusual, especially when a lot of the textures and detailing in the maps functioned as red herrings and simply out-competed them visually - after pressing so many walls where i was sure they hid a secret, i often simply gave up on relying on environmental hints at all to point me in the right direction. Maybe that was the biggest issue: there were too many conflicting visual messages . A lot of walls had textures on them that screamed "Secret!" (like the frequent use of the "stop sign" texture) only to be nothing more than decoration.

MAP01 is a perfect example: for the first secret you come across, if you look around the hallway in that building, there are so many walls with texturing that suggest a secret:

 

 

 

The hint to the actual secret in comparison is more subtle and, as a result, easily overlooked or simply ignored - the room quickly teaches the player that visual clues like asymmetrical detailing don't mark secrets - yet they very much do, and confusingly, later in the map the stop sign actually does mark a secret.

Another issue is when secret areas require the player to backtrack when the level progression pushes them forward instead. For example, the rocket launcher is very tough to find because there is no reason for the player to backtrack to the hallway where the wall opens up. At this point the player has the red key, they've most likely seen the red door earlier, so they have a clear goal of heading back to the red door, which will lead them away from the corridor where the rocket launcher has been revealed. Since the rocket launcher isn't marked as a secret, only random backtracking will make them come across it.

Another example from MAP01 would be the secret in the final corridor before the exit which reveals nothing but a medikit - i think this is a reward guaranteed to disappoint since the map isn't exactly stingy with health, and a soulsphere for example would have felt more appropriate, considering we are right before the end and this is a set made for continuous play.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Gregor