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Peter

Not Even Remotely Fair - 32 Maps for DOOM II - Nightmare Difficulty Only - All Original Soundtrack [idgames]

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alright, this shit owns a lot. congrats all on the excellent work. would love to get involved next time around, whether it be music or mapping. this is way more in my lane than i had imagined.

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Hi, "theshep" from youtube here.

Just got done watching decino's playthrough! A fine job everyone did on this! Love the strategies that need to be employed to get these maps beat. Like the aesthetics. Like the credits map! I like how it's a doomtuber-esque collaboration wad, with you Peter, Dwars, and decino contributing.

Really appreciate the hard work and look forward to episodes 2 and 3.

I've been here on Doomworld a long time, since 2002, and I love seeing the trajectory and momentum of the community. Love it!

I'll give it a try soon. Thanks!

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17 hours ago, rediska_3_14 said:

When I loaded it for the first time, I thought "who's gonna stop me from playing on a lower difficulty?" and picked HNTR.

Well, somebody will definitely stop you. I won't spoil it.

 

XD   I think some of the other levels also have "surprises" when you try them on other difficulties as well :D

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18 minutes ago, NeilJohnRips said:

 

XD   I think some of the other levels also have "surprises" when you try them on other difficulties as well :D


Is there something that prevents this in all maps? I seemed to get through Map 2 fine on I'm Too Young To Die.

 

Fantastic idea for a WAD by the way. Map 1's way of preventing Ultra Violence was genius.

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5 hours ago, Degree23 said:


Is there something that prevents this in all maps? I seemed to get through Map 2 fine on I'm Too Young To Die.

 

Fantastic idea for a WAD by the way. Map 1's way of preventing Ultra Violence was genius.

Not all maps have lower difficulty preventions, like mine, map 02. I like to think you can cheat by going on lower difficulties if you want but you're only really cheating yourself.

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I never play Doom on Nightmare. But if I did, I’d start with this wad.

 

I watched Decino’s playthrough, and my only regret playing ’Not even remotely fair’ would be that it’d be impossible to stop and enjoy the scenery; to have those moments of appreciation.

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5 hours ago, RHhe82 said:

I never play Doom on Nightmare. But if I did, I’d start with this wad.

 

I watched Decino’s playthrough, and my only regret playing ’Not even remotely fair’ would be that it’d be impossible to stop and enjoy the scenery; to have those moments of appreciation.

 

Can load the map with No Monsters on it. Fireblu Baptism and Rats in the wall are outstanding maps to be having a damn good look at. (Rats in the wall probably has the most doom cute in one level ever :O )

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On 3/9/2022 at 10:33 PM, ReaperAA said:

 

DBP25 was also designed around nightmare difficulty.

Yeah. But only map33 was good in that WAD.

Rest of the maps were....just aesthetically pleasing only. 

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2 minutes ago, ssin174 said:

Yeah. But only map33 was good in that WAD.

Rest of the maps were....just aesthetically pleasing only. 

Yeah the combat in those maps made no sense.

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On 3/9/2022 at 1:37 AM, Peter said:

 

I like the songs that this WAD has, especially the one on map 8, Ending and the Text Screen

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Congrats y'all! I'm glad I got to work on this. I learned a lot working on this bad boy :^)

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Posted a hotfix to fix a broken secret exit on MAP15, desync on DEMO1, and a few errors on MAP32. These are the last hotfixes for Not Even Remotely Fair Episode 2 for convenience sake.

If there's any other issues, so be it.

 

Fixed MAP10, MAP15 and MAP20, using the correct node builder which fixes issues.

Edited by Peter

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Opinions on episode 1 from a mediocre Doom player who has never played Nightmare or with fast monsters before:

 

I've beaten the first 11 maps without saves, and even got all items and secrets in some of them when they were either free or too useful to pass up.
Before I went into this, I was expecting a "casual Nightmare" experience. But "casual Nightmare" apparently still entails having to practice each map thoroughly, sometimes including minute details like "how do I move around these 3 Pinkies?" Or maybe I'm just bad. But I had fun with it (with one exception) because the maps are all short and designed to be played over and over again. Playing with fast monsters for the first time also gave me a shock. I've watched others play with fast monsters before, so I was aware of the dangers of Turbo Pinkies and hitscanners. But I still died a shameful death the first time I entered map 01. Lessons have been learned. Fast projectiles also required different dodging patterns than my muscle memory was used to.

 

With short maps like these that have to be practiced anyway, and blind playthroughs being virtually impossible, this also opens the door for more unconventional secrets like AV jumps. Most of them are easy to find but pose an extra challenge, making this a rare Doom WAD with actually (mostly) good secrets.
I explored each map on ITYTD first. This wasn't always possible because some monsters have triggers attached to them that are needed to make progress or to reach certain secrets. And then I was wondering whether I'm too stupid to find the right way, or the map is just unbeatable without monsters. I appreciate it when key monsters remain in the map like the Tyrant in map 06 or the AV in map 11 that is needed for the Chainsaw secret. It would have been nice to have more consistency across the WAD in this regard.

 

The soundtrack is very fitting. Thankfully it's not another metal rendition because fast-paced action or something. I don't recall any WAD soundtracks in this style, or I just haven't played them.

 

Comments on some maps that stand out:

 

Map 03: Fireblu Baptism
Great aesthetics and music. This is my favorite track and I could listen to in on endless loop.

 

Mao 06: Rats in the Walls
Another beautiful map. But this one felt more like a classical exploration map instead of Nightmare. You aren't under much pressure at all.

 

Map 07: Across the Highlands
This is the only map I didn't like. The layout is so confusing. Even after exploring it on ITYTD, followed by 3 practice runs with saves, I still got lost occasionally. Every direction looks the same: A mess of torches and green marble in darkness. Not fun to practice, tbh.

The redeeming factor is the fight at the end with the respawning Arachnotron. Great use of the Dead Simple gimmick. The only downside is that it comes at the end of a fairly long map, and the challenge is heavily dependent on the RNG which can range from trivial to insane.

 

Map 08: Running in the 90's
A quick shoutout to the simple but fun encounter with the AV on one side and 4 Imps on the other side. Good exercise.
Why are there penises everywhere?

 

Map 10: Let Me In
More like "Let Me Through!" This map damaged my brain. It's the hardest map, by far. But I like it. For some reason, I was having trouble getting past the Pinkies and Imps that come after the wall of HKs. The stairs in the main area also tend to get clogged up at random. I had better results when I killed a bunch of enemies there early on. There is so much that can go wrong in this map, and this required a lot of practice. I'm glad I took the time to figure out exactly how I want to move in the final area with the Barons. Chances are you'll arrive there with 100/100. And with my luck, I would probably die in 3 hits. I even finished this with all secrets and items.
My only complaint is the tiny gap you have to cross to get out of the main area towards the hitscanners and back to the beginning. Occasionally I wouldn't get across that gap and fall down despite running full speed. Bumpy floor or something. Annoying and dangerous.

 


This was a refreshing experience, and I hope to see more Nightmare WADs in the future. Surely there is a lot of untapped potential here.
When episode 3 drops, I'm also going to revisit the maps and finish all of them with secrets and items. Hopefully.

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Congratulations to @Peter and the entire team! Everyone involved is ought to be really proud.

 

Loved the Nightmare WAD idea from the first minute I heard about it. This game mechanic was just sitting there for years, ignored by almost everyone. You might call this a "gimmick", but as far as gimmicks go, Nightmare is a quite involved game mode. It's certainly a more interesting way to provide challenge than annoying platforming above inescapable pits ;)

 

NERF's not the first Nightmare WAD, Doomer Boards did a similar project before, but hopefully this is the next huge step and it would inspire more Nightmare stuff in the future.

 

Time flies, it has been 2 years in the making. Bias disclaimer - I made 1 map for this project and followed the development process closely. Everything said above are my honest thoughts nonetheless. NERF will always hold a special place in my heart.

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Congratulations!!! This is such a milestone for the Nightmare! difficulty and if this doesn't convince people to try it, I don't know what will. It proves how fun NM can be when experienced mappers actually design around its rules and quirks. 

 

Not only that: the quality of the maps and the (bespoke!) music is incredibly high. Over 2 years of hard work went into this and you can clearly tell.

 

I implore you to give it a shot, even if you might think that playing on NM isn't your thing. It was my very first experience with the difficulty and NERF does a fantastic job at building up the challenge. There's optional goals to go for (100% secrets and even 100% items, they've been strategically placed) and you can also explore the maps without all the non-essential monsters, so you can figure out a route at your own pace. I can't recommend it enough.

 

Once again a huge congrats to @Peter and the team and I can't wait to dive into the final episode!

Edited by Vytaan

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Nice, congrats on release.

 

I might do some demos on some of these maps. Are you absolutely sure that these will be the final idgames version? (I can't risk desyncs from future bugfixes/idgames updates)

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