Russia supposedly plans to cut of the whole country out of internet.

[Dark Pulse]

16 minutes ago, OniriA said:

If China agrees to help then they will likely provide and find replacements for all the tech from the western companies who're leaving them right now.

They mostly used Vk over there instead of facebook, and as far as I know they had their own version of Spotify aswell.

 

The underlying problem is that Moscow is realizing that the war is becoming increasingly unstable with all the socio-economic consequences it's having.

The proposal to China is a sign of that.

 

So for the continuation of the war it will very much depend on what China will decide next.

It should be noted, however, that China is very leery of pissing off the US on this. The last thing they need is sanctions themselves when their economic growth is the slowest it's been in decades.

 

And of course, the last thing China really needs is to deal with a pissed-off US. China is super-reliant on good trading terms with the US, unlike Russia.

[OniriA]

27 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

It should be noted, however, that China is very leery of pissing off the US on this.

 

That's also why China's decision on this will be the most important and interesting.

 

Their one decision could either mean the escalation or de-escalation of the current conflict. 

 

Last thing I'd want to see is the Chinese community in the West being witch-hunted within an already racially tense and divided United States.

[Azuris]

On 3/14/2022 at 1:51 AM, Doomkid said:

Political thread on Doomworld? Oh shit..

 

This is only partially related, but I just want to say that all the "anti Russian people" propaganda I've seen going around is fucking gross. So many stories and media outlets (old and new) are acting as if every Russian is just a "lesser clone" of Putin.. It's honestly the way a fucking 5 year old would view the world. Seeing people cheer for already-poor-and-starving Russians not being able to access their money or get food to eat makes me think human beings are simply a toxic poison, a blight on the universe. Any species that can view the suffering of others as a positive is fundamentally twisted to the core.

 

Here in Europe the Media isn't as anti Russian, People are stupid and treat russian People bad and the Media even shows that Discrimination and that it is not good.
But i have to admit, it depends on the Level where it happens.

For Example, just going against any Russian on the Street only for being Russian is absolutly stupid.

 

But there are also People with russian Passport where the Banks freeze the Account to check how and where the Money moves.
Here it isn't Discrimination, it is just very complicated to filter all the People and not let slip any Baddy away.

I wouldn't have an Idea how to make it better, it isn't just as Easy.
They could make a white List for Stuff as Electricity Companies et ceter, so they can at least there Bills.

What i personally do not understand is why they keep their Russian Passports, some mentioned they're born in Germany and spend their whole Life here.
I could also have a South American or Spanish Passport, but why should i?
It makes everything more complicated in your Life, you can't vote, to make Stuff you have to go to the next Capital to the Embassy and travelling out the EU could bring some Problems. 

 

The State here now also offers easier Visa for Russians that want to leave Russia because they do get discriminated by the russian Goverment.

So i can see that it is not all anti Russian.

 

12 hours ago, OniriA said:

...

Two Scenarios:

 

1. China agrees Russia's proposal --> A Russian + Chinese economic bloc forms, with China providing the necessary means. 

   The war in Ukraine continues. 

 

2. China declines Russia's proposal (to evade Western sanctions in turn).

The war is clearly not sustainable due to the heavy sanctions and the economic burden so Putin agrees to hold talks with Zelensky.  

A process which was started by first sending the underdogs to the negotiating table in Belarus, after that it was the deputy ministers in Turkey who went.

With each meeting more and more higher up's on the ladder are being sent and eventually that could mean that Putin might sit down with Zelensky.

However, that still doesn't mean that peace is guaranteed, but it's a more hopeful scenario. 

 

I could imagine Putin to want to close the whole Internet, but i can not imagine that he accomplishes that.
Russians are intelligent and now how to get Stuff they want.

Also, if even the russian Army can't communicate over a save Line and have to use the mobile Net in Ucraina, i can't imagine that the State is as effective as they wish to be...
(Really, that is laughable, two Generals killed because the save Communications doesn't work...)

I think Russia will be VERY dependend on China after this War.
China is here the clear Winner, it will have the once strong leading Power on their Line like a Dog.
For Example, Russia was getting a big Amount of their Technology from Taiwan, that stopped and Russia is fully dependend on what their own Chips do and what China gives them.
Also being political isolated, Russia now has to ask if their political wishes are in Line with the Chinese.
They can't act independend.

 

21 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

My Russian friends were leaving several Instagram stories delegating to Telegram. Through their words, you can read their helplessness. They are hit at by the whims of a leader who cares little for his people (or the Ukrainian people).

 

In war, the truth always dies first.

 

Aye, War only brings Suffer to normal People because the political Class wants more Might.
Masking their Wishes for Power by convincing them that the War is good for Reasons of Patriotism, Religion or some other Ideology.

[roadworx]

On 3/13/2022 at 8:35 PM, gwain said:

when will the Russian and Ukraine threads go away already

oh, ffs. there's literally only been two other threads in the two weeks since the war began, it's not that bad. besides, this has an enormous effect on the doom community; the russian doom scene is fairly large, after all

 

19 hours ago, Azuris said:

What i personally do not understand is why they keep their Russian Passports, some mentioned they're born in Germany and spend their whole Life here.

I could also have a South American or Spanish Passport, but why should i?
It makes everything more complicated in your Life, you can't vote, to make Stuff you have to go to the next Capital to the Embassy and travelling out the EU could bring some Problems.

a lot of people have family back in their home country and like to go visit them

[Azuris]

1 hour ago, roadworx said:

a lot of people have family back in their home country and like to go visit them

 

But if you aren't living in a really instable Country, you can normally travel around the World with the Passport of the Nation you live in.

 

As mentioned, it brings some smaller Problems in your everyday Life that go on you Nerves and in Times of Crisis, it causes much bigger existantial Problems.

 

Most Countries also makes it easier to get "your" old Nationalaty back, if you can provide your Ancestry.

 

 

[insertwackynamehere]

Russian visas are not easy to get for western nationals (at least US citizens). It's "easy" but it's a drawn out process and potentially expensive. When I got one, it was the "best" visa a normal person can get (afaik -- 3 years, multi-entry), and even it was relatively stringent and I think it cost my company $600 to go through a third party who helps coordinate, and even so, I had to fill out a ton of stuff like everywhere I worked and travelled with exact dates. You have to have an official host as well (hotel or family) which didn't seem to be super-enforced, but still adds to the headache of knowing that a border entry guard having a bad day might find some bureaucratic subtly you missed and send you home.

 

Besides that, I would never get rid of any passports I had if I had the opportunity to have multiple. I have friends with multiple passports and it makes your life a lot easier when traveling to pick the optimal passport for the country you are going to. Plus, you will have a lot more potential escape routes if things every really start going downhill.

 

My point is, I wouldn't judge someone for having multiple passports.

[dasho]

On 3/13/2022 at 6:51 PM, Doomkid said:

Political thread on Doomworld? Oh shit..

 

This is only partially related, but I just want to say that all the "anti Russian people" propaganda I've seen going around is fucking gross. So many stories and media outlets (old and new) are acting as if every Russian is just a "lesser clone" of Putin.. It's honestly the way a fucking 5 year old would view the world. Seeing people cheer for already-poor-and-starving Russians not being able to access their money or get food to eat makes me think human beings are simply a toxic poison, a blight on the universe. Any species that can view the suffering of others as a positive is fundamentally twisted to the core.

 

You have to dehumanize your enemies for effective propaganda. If you were to believe everything you see in US media, Putin is sitting in Moscow twirling a comically large mustache and tying women to train tracks. It has to be hyperbolic in nature to work as intended.

[OniriA]

Since this is the only Russia - Ukraine related thread here, I felt like sharing this personal anecdote. 

 

Met a refugee family today on the way back from work on the train station.

They came out of the train behind me and there were 2 children, 3 women and one adult male. At first I wasn't exactly aware they were refugees until I heard the sound of a Slavic language being spoken and saw they had a lot of bags and stuff with them.

 

A girl with a baby in the buggy was racing around me while the two other women conversed with eachother. 

Out of curiosity I asked one of them were they were heading and were they came from. Upon hearing that they were from Ukraine, and realizing this

was a war torn family, emotions raced through my mind aswell as a sense of helplessness.

 

I told them I felt sorry for what was happening right now and having to read all of this in the news everyday.

They told me they were headed to a hostel of some kind.

 

As they were talking my train arrived, I wished them the best and hugged them before leaving.

 

As the light of their day might've been dim at that moment, they certainly lighted mine by their embrace.

 

[Major Arlene]

2 minutes ago, OniriA said:

Since this is the only Russia - Ukraine related thread here, I felt like sharing this personal anecdote. 

 

Met a refugee family today on the way back from work on the train station.

They came out of the train behind me and there were 2 children, 3 women and one adult male. At first I wasn't exactly aware they were refugees until I heard the sound of a Slavic language being spoken and saw they had a lot of bags and stuff with them.

 

A girl with a baby in the buggy was racing around me while the two other women conversed with eachother. 

Out of curiosity I asked one of them were they were heading and were they came from. Upon hearing that they were from Ukraine, and realizing this

was a war torn family, emotions raced through my mind aswell as a sense of helplessness.

 

I told them I felt sorry for what was happening right now and having to read all of this in the news everyday.

They told me they were headed to a hostel of some kind.

 

As they were talking my train arrived, I wished them the best and hugged them before leaving.

 

As the light of their day might've been dim at that moment, they certainly lighted mine by their embrace.

 

Thank you for sharing this- and thank you for being kind. this war is terrifying and I'm glad to hear of kindness to these families, even if it's only temporarily.

[Murdoch]

1 hour ago, OniriA said:

As they were talking my train arrived, I wished them the best and hugged them before leaving.

 

As the light of their day might've been dim at that moment, they certainly lighted mine by their embrace.

 

 

Good job. 

[Shibainumaster]

On 3/16/2022 at 11:19 PM, dasho said:

 

You have to dehumanize your enemies for effective propaganda. If you were to believe everything you see in US media, Putin is sitting in Moscow twirling a comically large mustache and tying women to train tracks. It has to be hyperbolic in nature to work as intended.

You're extremely correct.

[Azuris]

On 3/16/2022 at 2:36 PM, insertwackynamehere said:

Russian visas are not easy to get for western nationals (at least US citizens). It's "easy" but it's a drawn out process and potentially expensive. When I got one, it was the "best" visa a normal person can get (afaik -- 3 years, multi-entry), and even it was relatively stringent and I think it cost my company $600 to go through a third party who helps coordinate, and even so, I had to fill out a ton of stuff like everywhere I worked and travelled with exact dates. You have to have an official host as well (hotel or family) which didn't seem to be super-enforced, but still adds to the headache of knowing that a border entry guard having a bad day might find some bureaucratic subtly you missed and send you home.

 

Besides that, I would never get rid of any passports I had if I had the opportunity to have multiple. I have friends with multiple passports and it makes your life a lot easier when traveling to pick the optimal passport for the country you are going to. Plus, you will have a lot more potential escape routes if things every really start going downhill.

 

My point is, I wouldn't judge someone for having multiple passports.

 

Yep, it is really dependend from where you are, how difficult it is to travel into a Country.

I don't know how the Treatments are for most european Countries with Russia, but i am sure it is much easier as from the US.

Into Turkey, not being a EU Country, you also can travel pretty easily only with your ID-Card, no Passport needed at all.

Bulgaria was the same some Years ago.

 

But you are absolutly right, if you can have the Passports of two Countries, go for it.

It is possible that you could travel even more freely, as different Countries have different Treatments about Traveling.

 

Back to People visiting their former Home Country.

Here in Europe it is mostly a Visit every Year or second for 2-4 Weeks, mostly dependend on how far away it is.

There are mostly no bigger Problems involved in such small Vacations.

Many that are born here and now adult often also just don't bother.

 

But i stay to what i've said, it is much more problematic if you do not get the Citizenship and Passport of the Country you are spending 99% of your Life Time (and even many are born in).

As harsh as it sounds, Problems caused by it are selfmade.

Many keep their "native" Citizenship for nationalistic Reasons and not because they can't get the german one (in the cases i am speaking of).

To turn it into a US View:

How many People do you know, that are born in the US, spend their whole Life there and would refuse the US Citizenship (Dreamers)?

 

[Scorpio]

I'm from Russia. I have the opportunity to read the opinions of people from different political camps (yes, we do not have such censorship as yours, unfortunately). I don't like politics, just like any normal person. All I want is peace, health and good luck to my loved ones. But.... no, no, BUT, everything I'm reading about us in the Western press right now is a lie, a LIE with a capital letter. Often, the degree of absurdity that occurs when we are accused goes beyond all bounds.

 

[Major Arlene]

16 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

 But.... no, no, BUT, everything I'm reading about us in the Western press right now is a lie, a LIE with a capital letter. Often, the degree of absurdity that occurs when we are accused goes beyond all bounds.

Ya wanna clarify how it's all a lie, or...? 

[Mr. Freeze]

Reminder that being on the wrong side of one of the most morally one-sided conflicts over the last several decades makes you not worth taking seriously. 

[Murdoch]

1 hour ago, Scorpio said:

I'm from Russia. I have the opportunity to read the opinions of people from different political camps (yes, we do not have such censorship as yours, unfortunately). I don't like politics, just like any normal person. All I want is peace, health and good luck to my loved ones. But.... no, no, BUT, everything I'm reading about us in the Western press right now is a lie, a LIE with a capital letter. Often, the degree of absurdity that occurs when we are accused goes beyond all bounds.

 

 

Have you ever heard the phrase extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?

 

There is ample footage of defenseless attacks on civilian targets. Far more than can staged. I do not care what your overall cause supposedly is. That makes putin and his supporters the bad guys. Simple.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Murdoch

[Doomkid]

The whole “all western media on this topic is a LIE” thing just doesn’t make any sense in the most basic way - depending where each outfit sits politically, I’ve seen everything from Putin being painted as good as God or as bad as The Devil, and Ukraine are either the sweetest most perfect group of people in history, OR are nothing more than neo-nazis. It’s all ultra-hyperbolic and I’m sure plenty of it is bullshit, but two opposite claims can’t both be untrue at the same time: that would be the rhetorical equivalent of dividing by 0..

 

“Your” media is lying to you about how it’s all going down too, Scorpio. “Our” media lies to us about domestic stuff all the time, it’s definitely not limited to international affairs - and yours lies to you about domestic stuff all the time as well. Welcome to post-Television society my friend.

 

 

(EDIT: stuff below is not relevant, was simply a phrasing issue.)

 

30 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

There is ample footage of defenseless attacks on civilian targets. Far more than can staged. I do not care what your overall cause supposedly is. That makes you the bad guys. Simple.

Eh, by this logic, the fact that Trump was constantly blathering about how awful Mexican people coming to the US are is somehow “my” fault because I’m American. Really not comfortable with that logic. The only people actually responsible are Putin, his political circle, and his most vocal fans.

[Murdoch]

1 minute ago, Doomkid said:

, by this logic, the fact that Trump was constantly blathering about how awful Mexican people coming to the US are is somehow “my” fault because I’m American. Really not comfortable with that logic. The only people actually responsible are Putin, his political circle, and his most vocal fans.

 

Edited for clarity. I did mean exactly that - putin and anyone actively supporting him. Chose my words a bit poorly. 

[Doomkid]

Sorry, to be fair I should have known based on past posts of yours that it was simply a phrasing issue!

[Yumheart]

I don't think I've seen anybody talk about it here already, so I'm quickly gonna mention Snowflake:
It's a browser addon which enables your browser to be used as a mirror for sites that have been censored in Russia, created by the people behind TOR. Sounds super-sketchy, but it's been recommended by a lot of popular media and even some governments. This doesn't help ofc when the entire country gets cut off from the internet as a whole, but it's helping Russian journalists as long as there is any form of internet access. Most of you probably know about this already, but just in case anyone doesn't, here you go.

https://snowflake.torproject.org/

[WARDUST]

I have teammates both Ucrania and Rusia. The first ones, have lost everything, the job of course, because they need take the arms or life the country. They send us photos. Personal messages, not publicity from an ideology or something, just the things are happening. And it's a shit.

In the other hand, i have lost all my teammates from Saint Pettersburg, due my company living the country (lot of problems with taxes, and not desiring give money to support this war.) I don't feel Russians are making a war, just Putin taking decissions (but with lot of internal support also), pure strategy. He is not a mad, just someone with power using... well, his power. And thats the History of the humanity. The point is that in Europe and USA we were living in a bubble thinking the world was going to be some Utophy of peace and prosperity. But it seems that the world doesn't change at all, just is more technology advanced but always the same territorial/resources/influence fights.

I read people justifiying current things saying USA launched Atomic Bomb on Japan and other things, something like "if they can do that, why we not?". The response should be really easy, bad acts of your neighbour don't justificate your bad acts, it's easy. But finally, we all are in the hands of the people who have the power to do that things, sadly.

 

I hope every Russian that wants go away from that maddness can do it safely, also the same for Ucranian people.

[Solmyr]

Maybe Scorpio doesn't have enough proficiency in english to express his point of view in a clear and concise manner, if his last reply that's in russian: "Хочу" which translates to "want to" is to be believed as sincere and not baiting.

Maybe he's reffering about Russians being portrayed as imperialistic warmongerers that went to war fully on their own accord, and they dream of resurrecting the Soviet Union/Russian Empire.

 

[Major Arlene]

58 minutes ago, Solmyr said:

Maybe Scorpio doesn't have enough proficiency in english to express his point of view in a clear and concise manner, if his last reply that's in russian: "Хочу" which translates to "want to" is to be believed as sincere and not baiting.

Maybe he's reffering about Russians being portrayed as imperialistic warmongerers that went to war fully on their own accord, and they dream of resurrecting the Soviet Union/Russian Empire.

 

 

Pretty much nowhere have I seen that, at least in mainstream US media. We've been empathetic to the Russians who have been risking their safety protesting in all sorts of ways. We've watched videos of conscripts who have no idea of what they've been dragged into with horror. Arnold Schwarzenegger has posted an empathetic video addressed directly to the Russian people that has become one of the most liked posts on Twitter. We understand that not every Russian is bad. But we hold the ones who are bad accountable. In my experience that's mostly been Putin, and the people who have bought into the propaganda (and even then we try to take the most empathetic view that they can change if shown the errors in propaganda). 

[Solmyr]

@Major Arlene I also neither heard of russians being portrayed in such bad light, i was just guessing that it had to be something that outrageous for him to claim in his words: "everything I'm reading about us in the Western press right now is a lie, a LIE with a capital letter. Often, the degree of absurdity that occurs when we are accused goes beyond all bounds." It wouldn't have to be something that came from mainstream U.S. media, although it wouldn't be out of place for Fox News. 

 

Yes i know about those videos, specially Schwarzenegger's and have seen them on the internet and local media. And i know that most westerners bears no ill will towards russian people in general (i believe people can be better than what they regard themselves as), there are still horrible assholes that are happy with the hardships that russians currently suffer, but that's part of human nature as well, that tribalist mindset bullshit.

 

Maybe Scorpio made up his "lying western media" boogeyman to justify his nationalism, or that was just bait.

 

 

 

 

[dew]

37 minutes ago, Solmyr said:

Maybe Scorpio made up his "lying western media" boogeyman to justify his nationalism, or that was just bait.

I'm not sure I support your very liberal and broad application of benefit of doubt, but I will give you the former here. A lot of people have a very high threshold to reach the "Are We The Baddies?" moment of clarity. This only gets worse if you're under a barrage of one-sided homer narrative. Even if you're confronted with contradictory information, at that point you're likely to quickly reject it as enemy propaganda. And Russia has made long strides towards cutting itself away from any foreign information over the last decade.

 

And while I usually disagree with Doomkid's militant fencesitting and fundamentalist bothsideism, he does bring out a good point: the western media cannot be ALL wrong. Even just America isn't all Fox News, and even Fox is apparently in a conflicted situation, trying to figure out if Putin is a good guy for opposing Biden, or a bad guy for opposing America. And even if you distrust all the MSM, you can go to the fringes, but when you combine the reasoning of the Jacobin, the Federalist and the Atlantic, you get total annihilation of any common value imaginable. Meanwhile Russia tightens the screws, narratives not in line with politbyro lead to jailing people. And by that I mean calling the special operation a "war". Wow, peak controversy!

[Solmyr]

Good points.

 

1 hour ago, dew said:

A lot of people have a very high threshold to reach the "Are We The Baddies?" moment of clarity. This only gets worse if you're under a barrage of one-sided homer narrative. Even if you're confronted with contradictory information, at that point you're likely to quickly reject it as enemy propaganda. And Russia has made long strides towards cutting itself away from any foreign information over the last decade.

 

This one in particular made me realize that i was ignorant and naive.

[Dark Pulse]

It's classic authoritarian ideology 101: Control the output, and eventually you no longer have a need to control the input because those who you control no longer even realize it's an option once you've done so long enough and formed a generation with no idea of what the alternative is like.

 

The media lying to the people is hardly a new concept, and even in highly liberal societies there will always be some outlet who wants to lie for one reason or another. The American government is hardly on the level with the American people, after all - they're just more likely to commit a thousand little white lies than they are to boldly claim the moon is really made out of delicious cheese. (Exception: The Trump era, where that pretty much was what was done. This was an administration that coined the phrase "alternative facts" after all!)

 

That said, I also think that by and large, the American people do not want Russia to be our enemy, and do not want to think badly of the Russian people. We're well aware of the bullshit Putin has done, the indoctrination, the fact that he's clung to power as only an authoritarian loves to. A man who needs to demonstrate how tough he is publicly is not actually that tough at all - he's insecure. Actually tough men are tough when it's called for. Washington was tough. Lincoln was tough. Putin is anything but. At least men like Lenin and Stalin fought for and were willing to die for their ideas if it came down to it (whether they were good ideas or not is another matter entirely), so in that sense, they're tougher than Putin is, too.

 

Unfortunately, it also so happens that Putin was the guy who pulled Russia out of an absolute tailspin it was left in by Yeltsin. And for that alone, he will have earned the loyalty of millions - millions who, up until last month, perhaps thought that their system was fine, their leader might've been a jackass, but they had a decent standard of living. Who needs the Western system of democracy? Ours works fine.

 

Then he decided that he needed to do something about a neighbor, and that quickly vanished. And then the truth of the system was laid bare - that the western firms were there because they were allowed to be, by both governments - Russia for the investment, and America for the profit. As soon as something happened that caused a rift, that was it; what's left is what's homegrown, which is a far cry from what it had been.

 

And now just why democracy matters is obvious. The guy in charge has no checks, no balances. He's systematically arresting people like the head of the FSB, because he fears a coup d'état. Anyone who could be a threat to him and his way has wound up imprisoned (Navalny), nearly dead (Navalny again, Skripal), or dead (Litvinenko). He's sending in conscripts who were told this was a training exercise, only realizing it's actual war too late, and having a vanguard who will kill them if they attempt to flee.

 

Simply put, there's only a few ways this madness is going to end.

1. Ukraine capitulates, which considering how fiercely they are fighting, is not going to happen. Even if they take Kyiv, this is clearly heading for a resistance and an insurgency, and Russia is losing enough materiel that holding the country as a whole is not very feasible.
2. Putin is somehow overthrown by elements of his government, but this would take those in power to feel keeping him in power is more dangerous than obeying his orders. At that point, it depends on who replaces him.
3. Putin dies, whether naturally or through trauma. But at that point, it's up to who would step in next. As above, it depends on who replaces him.
4. The war drags on long enough that even with whatever support he could get from Syria, China, etc. his economy is so crushed that he has little choice but to call it off. This would be the most humiliating outcome. It's also the one he'd try to prevent most of all, possibly well past the point of the economy being in absolute tatters.

It's important to remember that there are plenty of Russian victims in this war too - not just the soldiers who were sent to die for some man's ego, but also the thousands of Russians who are brave enough to protest, and the likely millions more who are silently thinking the same thing but not able to speak their mind. Even those who bought into the propaganda are victims themselves - unable to know better because their only resources of information is exactly what the state wants them to hear.

 

I can only hope it will end relatively soon. But the world is learning some important things about Russia and Putin specifically, and I hate to say it, but I think Russia is going to enter a steep, multi-year decline from this. Even in a best-case scenario where Putin is somehow rid of quickly and someone much more moderate takes hold of power, its military weaknesses have been laid bare, not helped by the grift of a 20+ year dictator (let's be blunt, he was a shadow president during Medvedev's term), and other states could certainly be smelling blood.

 

I wouldn't even be surprised if Russia winds up falling under Chinese influence in the coming decades - especially as the West is going to be very wary of re-engaging, even after Putin is a memory.

[bobstremglav]

Me: planning to calmly make games, download old stuff and emulators, watch funny videos, share my creations with other people

Raising Russia-phobia and cutting Russia from internet: hello

 

And it's shame that many sanctions affect not government, but simple people.

World support Ukraine, but simple people from Russia which didn't wanted war don't deserve it? Oh well...

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, bobstremglav said:

And it's shame that many sanctions affect not government, but simple people.

World support Ukraine, but simple people from Russia which didn't wanted war don't deserve it? Oh well...

That's the shitty part of this madness, is that ordinary Russians who want nothing to do with this war have to suffer the consequences along with it.

 

But it's one of the few ways to truly be able to stop someone who has no restraints and has systematically removed anything that could challenge his power, much less oust him.

[Doomkid]

7 hours ago, dew said:

And while I usually disagree with Doomkid's militant fencesitting and fundamentalist bothsideism, he does bring out a good point:

Yup, even those of us who aren’t nearly as radicalised as you can bring out a good point once or twice, dew! Shocker eh?!