Known lost WADs of our history?

[brick]

I started writing a reply but it disappeared somehow.

 

Alberto Barsella made the Wasteland series in 1994, in the very early days of Doom. Compared to what was standard back then it was actually pretty good with some neat and interesting ideas, and the design gets better with every map. There's also a pretty detailed story between every map, and it's honestly quite good for what it is. The maps all used to be available from his website, including Mausoleum (mausol01.zip), a WIP 4th map that was supposedly never completely finished. A decade later, someone put the finished maps into a trilogy wad and got it on idgames, but without Mausoleum. Unfortunately it looks like Mausoleum is impossible to find now.

[kmxexii]

AfterDoom used to be on this list but we now have the complete Virgil the DooM Poet experience... excepting the stuff that he mentioned on his website as being WIPs (Lake Avalon's Fall, Space Fragments, Claustrophobia 2).

 

Don Howard of Kill! Zone and Daedalus: Alien Defence fame released a single level Doom II level called Vile-Lab, mentioned in the KILL!Zone II .TXT but which I wasn't able to track down.

 

If you've read my Malcolm Sailor reviews then you'll know that he mentions a PWAD called DK.ZIP which he describes as "a high quality fortress level". He never released it under that name but I suspect that he subsequently published it under a different moniker since he eventually released pretty much everything that he'd ever made with MSSCRAPS. I doubt whether it was one of the prefabs and suspect rather that it either found its way to /idgames as CHORD1 or (more likely) CHORD2 given that the latter has a definite fortress feel.

 

Bob Evans teased having a backup of a bunch of Compuserve files around the time that he uploaded his holy grail ODESSA maps, with specific map names, but he has vanished back into the mist of history. I hope that he is doing well.

[Arrowhead]

4play4.wad is mentioned by the 90s author Harq - in many of his readmes, going back to '97.

 

I have not been able to find this WAD anywhere, nor have I been able to attain it through the 'Trying to Find a Specific WAD' thread.

 

Harq names this file in 5 of his readmes, dating from October '97 to February '98, so I'm certain it had to have existed.

 

I am uncertain as to whether this was a deathmatch or SP level, as Harq was known to make both types of maps.

 

Any help would be appreciated, but I've kind of given up on this one. A shame, as Harq was a very talented 90s author...

[FEDEX]

18 minutes ago, Arrowhead said:

 

I have not been able to find this WAD anywhere, nor have I been able to attain it through the 'Trying to Find a Specific WAD' thread.

 

Maybe you should bump and ask again, sometimes some request go unnoticed

[Zemini]

On 3/21/2022 at 10:37 PM, Endless said:

Untitled - Episode 1,2 and 3 by @Zemini (3 WADs in total, none to be found. Zemini name also doesn't show up on /idgames, but the author is around Doomworld, so perhaps there's hope?)

 

 

 

 

 

I never put it on Idgames because i never finished the damn thing.  That versions you see there is pretty outdated.  Maybe someday.  There are four episodes actually but i merged them into a single campaign since it was easier to balance.

[LadyMistDragon]

On 3/22/2022 at 3:23 AM, Dyshoria software said:

i whould say tear.wad a wad made by Eric Harris (yes that one) that never got released or got finished

Yes! While UAC Labs kind of sounds like a bland, overly difficult maps, that was supposed to add a decent chunk of Dehacked content. Granted, it probably consisted of more sadism which UAC Labs reportedly was made of. Eric did have like two friends that had apparently playtested it, but something tells me they're not gonna have copies if anyone could track them down. If it elaborates on UAC Labs' difficulty with something between Batman Doom and a Malcolm Sailor/BPRD joint, who knows what it could have?

[Endless]

1 hour ago, Zemini said:

 

 

I never put it on Idgames because i never finished the damn thing.  That versions you see there is pretty outdated.  Maybe someday.  There are four episodes actually but i merged them into a single campaign since it was easier to balance.

It'd be awesome to see it make a comeback! Those screenshots don't look bad at all ;)

[FEDEX]

Indeed! We want to see a beta shining :D

[brick]

On 3/23/2022 at 8:14 PM, brick said:

Alberto Barsella made the Wasteland series in 1994, in the very early days of Doom. Compared to what was standard back then it was actually pretty good with some neat and interesting ideas, and the design gets better with every map. There's also a pretty detailed story between every map, and it's honestly quite good for what it is. The maps all used to be available from his website, including Mausoleum (mausol01.zip), a WIP 4th map that was supposedly never completely finished. A decade later, someone put the finished maps into a trilogy wad and got it on idgames, but without Mausoleum. Unfortunately it looks like Mausoleum is impossible to find now.

Good news, Mausoleum is no longer lost to history! Thanks to Mad Butcher, we have it again (also thank you FEDEX for thinking of posting a request in that thread!)

What are everyone's thoughts on what to do when some of these lost wads resurface like this? Should we (one of us?) try to upload them to idgames? Is it ok to upload someone else's wad to the archive if they haven't been around for decades, and if so is there a way to make sure they are found under the original author's name in the search?

[LadyMistDragon]

6 minutes ago, brick said:

Good news, Mausoleum is no longer lost to history! Thanks to Mad Butcher, we have it again (also thank you FEDEX for thinking of posting a request in that thread!)

What are everyone's thoughts on what to do when some of these lost wads resurface like this? Should we (one of us?) try to upload them to idgames? Is it ok to upload someone else's wad to the archive if they haven't been around for decades, and if so is there a way to make sure they are found under the original author's name in the search?

Yes and yes, though I've never tried, I've certainly seen some '94 wads where the original authors weren't the uploaders. In most cases, the wads could probably be uploaded, mostly because they aren't held to the same standards as modern wads. I know most people these days don't care about using it and have some serious issues with it in fact.

 

[Endless]

9 minutes ago, brick said:

Good news, Mausoleum is no longer lost to history! Thanks to Mad Butcher, we have it again (also thank you FEDEX for thinking of posting a request in that thread!)

What are everyone's thoughts on what to do when some of these lost wads resurface like this? Should we (one of us?) try to upload them to idgames? Is it ok to upload someone else's wad to the archive if they haven't been around for decades, and if so is there a way to make sure they are found under the original author's name in the search?

Great news!

 

This is also something I've wondered myself. There's a lot of old WADs that were uploaded in later years. I don't know if directly by archive maintainers or perhaps other volunteers. Either way, I think it could be re-uploaded as long as there's no .txt file that prohibits it, or anything like it.

[brick]

16 minutes ago, Endless said:

I think it could be re-uploaded as long as there's no .txt file that prohibits it, or anything like it.

I just checked and the text files for all 4 maps allow both modification and redistribution. If no one else does it first, I might upload Mausoleum as-is, or I might merge it with the rest of the trilogy into a complete package before upload, I'll think about it.

 

I just realized that, although Mausoleum is now a thing again, the Wasteland series is still incomplete. The resource WAD that you could download from Barsella's site (and which is included in the Trilogy wad on the archives) has WILV replacements for another 5 maps in the episode, AFAIK none of these were completed but I'm not sure if any were actually started. I don't know if this still falls under your definition of "incomplete version" in the OP.

[Ludi]

@Endless Besides that hilariously cringe screenshot, were there any other reasons for Joe Anderson's nuking from the archives?

 

I noticed an answer in the thread you lined, but Joe being embarrassed doesn't seem realistic based on that ballsy Cacoward billboard.

[pcorf]

Doom Millennium

Moredeth 2

TNT Devilution

 

We can only hope for a miracle.

[Endless]

1 hour ago, Sr_Ludicolo said:

@Endless Besides that hilariously cringe screenshot, were there any other reasons for Joe Anderson's nuking from the archives?

 

I noticed an answer in the thread you lined, but Joe being embarrassed doesn't seem realistic based on that ballsy Cacoward billboard.

It seems that's all the info there is! After that, there's some comments about how he got to work with Blizzard (? and he just went off the grid. Seems like he tried to erase his history here.

 

45 minutes ago, pcorf said:

Doom Millennium

Moredeth 2

TNT Devilution

 

We can only hope for a miracle.

Three iconic gems that we can, truly, only hope! I don't think they count as ''lost'' since, supposedly, they're still actively being ''developed''.

[Ludi]

56 minutes ago, pcorf said:

Doom Millennium

Moredeth 2

TNT Devilution

 

We can only hope for a miracle.

 

I don't even like TNT, and I still want to see Devilution get released

[Chainie]

57 minutes ago, pcorf said:

Doom Millennium

Moredeth 2

TNT Devilution

 

We can only hope for a miracle.

Kama-sutra 2 goes to the same list

[pcorf]

1 hour ago, Endless said:

I don't think they count as ''lost'' since, supposedly, they're still actively being ''developed''.

 

 

[7Mahonin]

A note on the Harris maps mentioned earlier:

 

Spoiler

 

I am pretty sure some of the lost maps were only available by contacting him through email, and the authorities quickly shut all his sites and emails down after the shooting so whatever was salvaged right after the shooting that appears on acolumbinesite is likely all that is left that will see public release.

 

The rumor he made maps or mods of his school is just an urban legend. There is no actual evidence of such a thing existing.

 

 

[Dexiaz]

[Dusty_Rhodes]

7 hours ago, pcorf said:

Doom Millennium

Moredeth 2

TNT Devilution

 

We can only hope for a miracle.

I'm a playtester for Kyka and I can say TNT Forever (TNT Devilution was a joke name as far as I know) is actually pretty close to being finished. It's actually really exciting.

 

Mordeth 2 will probably never come out as far as I know. It's been over 20 years. A miracle is required. 

[Roofi]

I hope Kama Sutra 2 will not fall in this category.

[Chainie]

42 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I'm a playtester for Kyka and I can say TNT Forever (TNT Devilution was a joke name as far as I know) is actually pretty close to being finished. It's actually really exciting.

 

Mordeth 2 will probably never come out as far as I know. It's been over 20 years. A miracle is required. 

Convilution is a joke name. TNT 2 Devilution is an actual megawad with loong development history. TNT Forever will be released after TNT 2 Devilution
Mordeth E2 in active development too (BTW mordeth 2 had been released back in 2014 

 )

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Doom X: a planned MegaWAD designed for ZDoom (and later GZDoom) that started off under the title The Last Marine. It would've been 32-levels long and added in new monsters and later in development new weapons. The YouTube channel and ModDB page is still available, but the official website has never been updated since 2016, and appears to be partially offline and/or inaccessible, with the only way to access it being the Wayback Machine. I guess the author lost interest in making the mod or didn't want to extend the time or resources to transfer code over to ZScript.

 

As far as we know, only a couple of assets would be released separately in one form or another. For example, the Flesh Wizard and Loper (the latter being based on an enemy from Return to Castle Wolfenstein) were uploaded to Realm667's beastiary repository, while others would be released elsewhere. As another example, the Angel of Death enemy appeared in ZDCP2, the Succubus and Trite enemies were made available on the ModDB page, and the infamous Gangsta Grosse was made available for years complete with a test map, but that's really more of a proof of concept of a boss fight for the latter enemy than anything else.

 

It's a real shame that Doom X never materialized beyond a few concept videos and screenshots, but it really would've been over the top and very fun.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Wadmodder Shalton

[T-Rex]

I remember how there was going to be a total conversion by Paul "Moe" Fleschute called Ultimate Invasion, and some members that were going to work on the project include Mark Klem, Nick "Nightmare" Baker, Roger Ritenour, and even skillsaw! It's been announced since 1998, and to this day, never has there been a beta release (unless you consider Invasion 2 an appetiser), and never again has it been mentioned. And there's Eternal Doom IV: Return from Oblivion, that will never, ever be completed, considering Team TNT is dead and gone since the passing of Ty Halderman.

[Gez]

If we're drifting into "projects that were announced and then disappeared", there are a few noteworthy ones.

 

Hi-Tech Hell 2 was supposed to be the sequel of a more ambitious project that would be released later. Don't ask me how that works.

                          hth2 is a sequel for an (yet) unreleased
                          ZDoom wad. Featuring a storyline, dummy 
                          actors, intro/conversations you can skip, 
                          the very different kind of teleports you've 
                          ever seen before... and more.

Anyway, Hi-Tech Hell 1 never happened.

 

Hellstorm: Dark Ascension was one of these very ambitious partial conversions from the late nineties. The Doom source code was opened, and so it was possible to make mods that included a new executable with more stuff in it! More monsters, more weapons, more effects... Of all such projects, only Caverns of Darkness saw the light of day. What happened instead was a decoupling of engines and mod projects, with some engines (ZDoom, EDGE, Legacy, etc.) moving ahead with more and more editing features and mod projects getting built around an existing port. That was a much more future-proof solution, so it's for the best. Anyway, if I bring up Hellstorm, it's because of its historical importance: just go take a look at its bestiary. Notice anything familiar? Yes, this was the debut of Amuscaria's spriting career. Those sprite edits ended up getting included in the Demon Eclipse resource files, even if left unused (a secret Hellstorm-themed level was planned as an Easter egg); and from there they'd find their way to other ZDoom projects. Some of them, like the nightmare and archon even got fancy redesigns at some point.

 

Speaking of abandoned, ambitious projects with their own custom engine, there's another one that has historical relevance: that's right, the Eternity TC! While the TC project eventually died, the custom engine soldiered on, eventually shedding off all the custom Eternity TC content that had been added to focus on being a general-purpose Doom source port instead.

 

23 hours ago, Chainie said:

BTW mordeth 2 had been released back in 2014 

I'm going to pretend Mordeth's daughter is named Meredith.

[Endless]

10 hours ago, T-Rex said:

I remember how there was going to be a total conversion by Paul "Moe" Fleschute called Ultimate Invasion, and some members that were going to work on the project include Mark Klem, Nick "Nightmare" Baker, Roger Ritenour, and even skillsaw! It's been announced since 1998, and to this day, never has there been a beta release (unless you consider Invasion 2 an appetiser), and never again has it been mentioned. And there's Eternal Doom IV: Return from Oblivion, that will never, ever be completed, considering Team TNT is dead and gone since the passing of Ty Halderman.

Do you have a link or something relevant like thread about those projects?

 

9 hours ago, Gez said:

If we're drifting into "projects that were announced and then disappeared", there are a few noteworthy ones.

 

Hi-Tech Hell 2 was supposed to be the sequel of a more ambitious project that would be released later. Don't ask me how that works.

                          hth2 is a sequel for an (yet) unreleased
                          ZDoom wad. Featuring a storyline, dummy 
                          actors, intro/conversations you can skip, 
                          the very different kind of teleports you've 
                          ever seen before... and more.

Anyway, Hi-Tech Hell 1 never happened.

 

Hellstorm: Dark Ascension was one of these very ambitious partial conversions from the late nineties. The Doom source code was opened, and so it was possible to make mods that included a new executable with more stuff in it! More monsters, more weapons, more effects... Of all such projects, only Caverns of Darkness saw the light of day. What happened instead was a decoupling of engines and mod projects, with some engines (ZDoom, EDGE, Legacy, etc.) moving ahead with more and more editing features and mod projects getting built around an existing port. That was a much more future-proof solution, so it's for the best. Anyway, if I bring up Hellstorm, it's because of its historical importance: just go take a look at its bestiary. Notice anything familiar? Yes, this was the debut of Amuscaria's spriting career. Those sprite edits ended up getting included in the Demon Eclipse resource files, even if left unused (a secret Hellstorm-themed level was planned as an Easter egg); and from there they'd find their way to other ZDoom projects. Some of them, like the nightmare and archon even got fancy redesigns at some point.

 

Speaking of abandoned, ambitious projects with their own custom engine, there's another one that has historical relevance: that's right, the Eternity TC! While the TC project eventually died, the custom engine soldiered on, eventually shedding off all the custom Eternity TC content that had been added to focus on being a general-purpose Doom source port instead.

 

I'm going to pretend Mordeth's daughter is named Meredith.

Damn, that looks like a very interesting project from such an early time.

[act]

Have we really forgotten Mordeth?

[continuum.mid]

On 3/22/2022 at 12:29 AM, Nefelibeta said:

Now come to think of it, B.P.R.D's doom website is somehow still running right now, and there are a few wads that he didn't bother to upload to /idgames. Seems like a good idea to save them before the site is down.

Geocities went down in 2009. The one on geocities.ws is already an archive of it, and based on the "last updated" date BPRD hasn't regained control of the site. So he won't be pulling the plug anytime soon, although I wouldn't be terribly surprised if something happened to geocities.ws, as I can find very little information on the company behind it.

 

Anyway I downloaded all the WADs there, might upload them to the Internet Archive if anyone thinks that's worthwhile

[FEDEX]

5 hours ago, northivanastan said:

Anyway I downloaded all the WADs there, might upload them to the Internet Archive if anyone thinks that's worthwhile

I think (and a couple of other doomers here too) that would amazing..