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Shikamaze

BFG vs Archvile: One has to go.

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1 minute ago, magicsofa said:

The point isn't to preserve the better icon - it's to preserve what is most important to the doom community.

And my point I guess is that the Doom community would have ended up being smaller without the BFG.

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I'll go full Joel and just say: Archie has to leave.

 

What? Ultimate Doom didn't have Arch-Viles either. So does it make it bad? No, it doesn't.

 

(Personal opinion incoming, save yourself while you can)

 

I also think the Arch-Vile is kinda overused. I feel whenever a mapper is too lazy to make an interesting fight by building the actual map around it, he'll use Archies and call it a day. That makes him less unique when used in that way.

 

(Personal opinion over, you may come out of your bunker now)

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11 minutes ago, Gez said:

And my point I guess is that the Doom community would have ended up being smaller without the BFG.

 

I don't really think so. In the Original Post, OP said that what's getting removed is getting removed from history. So if we get rid of the BFG it would have never existed at all in Doom... but BFG is Doom's super weapon. Even Wolfenstein had it's "BFG" and that's the Wolfenstein Chaingun. So really I think if BFG was wiped from history something else would take it's place...

 

damn. Now I want to speculate on this. Imma go open a new thread.

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BFG. Arch-vile is a great enemy and there's a myriad of ways you can use arch-viles in your maps. And there's only one way you can use BFG...

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I may like the BFG and hate the Archviles, but I'll choose the BFG to go. With the Archviles you can make great combat scenarios and nasty tricks like those from Plutonia for example. About the BFG, eh I don't like using it that much. I prefer using the Rocket Launcher, the SSG and the Plasma Rifle more than the BFG.

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One count towards removing the BFG.

 

Sorry dude, I know it’s weird that I’m kicking you out over the monster that wants to kill me.

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2 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Erased from history? Archvile.

Erased from the future? BFG.

Erased from the past, present, and future? Icon of Sin.

can't argue with the last part.

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I have to side with Gez here.

 

The BFG9000 is probably the only super-weapon ever developed for a computer game that actually delivered on all its promises.

It's also the one weapon that makes the Arch-Vile tolerable as an enemy. Encountering one of those fuckers with an SSG or a Plasma Gun can be quite a gamble with its low pain chance.

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20 hours ago, Shikamaze said:

You need to choose, one has to go, which is more important for Doom community, the Archvile or the BFG?

Absolute Sophie's Choice here, as said, an incredibly interesting and versatile enemy vs. an incredibly interesting and versatile weapon.

I guess I would have to kind of lean towards dropping the BFG9000, but not easily, because a lot of gameplay simply ceases to be viable without it.

 

16 hours ago, Rycuz said:

Remove BFG9000 and add BFG2704

I genuinely think the Beta BFG is absolutely awful.

 

9 hours ago, Solmyr said:

the BFG is fun and all but outside slaughteremaps it makes encounters including bosses irrelevant,

That comes down to map design more than anything. E2M8 and E3M8 are not that tough as bossfights, looking at a level which actually uses the Cyberdemon very smartly against the player, Doom 64's Hardcore, the BFG would only be somewhat helpful. I can also think of numerous encounters in non-slaughter levels where it saved my bacon, a bunch in Plutonia, mainly the harshest ambushes, and not always trivially.

 

9 hours ago, Solmyr said:

the spiderdemon would be a little less of a joke,

Not enough less of a joke. It should really have had that planned secondary attack where it telekinetically grabs or slows the player down to make them a much easier target for their big gun. The spider in E3M8 is an absolute bitch even on pistol start (sorry, Sandy).

 

6 hours ago, magicsofa said:

If either movie had a passable Archvile scene, it would have been an improvement.

Too true.

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2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

The BFG9000 is probably the only super-weapon ever developed for a computer game that actually delivered on all its promises.

It's also the one weapon that makes the Arch-Vile tolerable as an enemy. Encountering one of those fuckers with an SSG or a Plasma Gun can be quite a gamble with its low pain chance.

That's another that really hangs on map design. Plutonia's Map 11 : Hunted, you're set up with the double barrel and a stack of shells, and it's you against over a dozen viles in a tight and devilish labyrinth, you're stalked every second, and it's not made obvious which line you cross opens which door, or if when that happens, if that lets some viles pass through to get ever closer to you.

 

It is an extremely tense and sweat provoking level, but the cramped space is what makes it work, it gives you the ability to use corners against the viles to avoid getting roasted, you have so very little health to fall back on, but even a moderately skilled player can make it through alive even unscathed. There is no BFG until the end, and more than anything that's a reward for continuous play, because you don't need it by the time you get it.

In spite of that, Hunted is one of the very best official Doom levels.

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all you n00bs throwing the BFG into the trash can need to git gud and DM for god's sake, AV means absolutely zilch while playing DM which is the best gamemode ever :)

 

I would miss the AV though. He's awesome.

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10 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

The BFG9000 is probably the only super-weapon ever developed for a computer game that actually delivered on all its promises.

What about the Wraithverge?

Assembling a 3-part ancient relic that is shaped like a cross and fires angry wraiths that tear apart everything in a room cannot be topped.

The BFG is pretty cool though.

Still, I like the Arch-Vile more, simply because it's the one thing from Doom I actually dreamed about.

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1 hour ago, rzh said:

What about the Wraithverge?

Assembling a 3-part ancient relic that is shaped like a cross and fires angry wraiths that tear apart everything in a room cannot be topped.

The BFG is pretty cool though.

Still, I like the Arch-Vile more, simply because it's the one thing from Doom I actually dreamed about.

 

Rather than reposting the same thing:

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2472687

 

It'd be a great superweapon concept if it wasn't crippled like that.

 

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Bye bye Archie.

 

The BFG is the most interesting weapon in the game. I wonder if all the folks binning it have a good grip on its quirky mechanics, since I don't understand how someone could understand the BFG and still bin it.

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1 hour ago, durian said:

Bye bye Archie.

 

The BFG is the most interesting weapon in the game. I wonder if all the folks binning it have a good grip on its quirky mechanics, since I don't understand how someone could understand the BFG and still bin it.

 

To be fair, I mostly play maps that do not need the BFG, and I'll concede I do not fully understand it. It does impact my mapping, since I almost never gave the player a BFG. Perhaps I need to broaden my horizons.

 

Also, I guess I missed the point - OP asked about getting removed from history. In that case ... it's tough. BFG does have a large cultural impact.

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