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LerxstInWonderland

Hell Unearthed - 6 DOOM 2 Limit Removing Maps

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Agreeing with everyone else that those screenshots look exquisite.  You've really pushed the vanilla textures to their utmost, it seems.

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Ill give it a minor play right now and then update this post afterward!

 

Short demo video of Map01. I die but its pretty good layout!

 

Edited by kalensar

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Pretty nice and tough stuff! Reminds me of 'No Rest' as some said, but also definitely has some Sigil moments. Definitely a UV for a super casual player like me, first thing I would probably tone down the hitscanners if you want to implement HMP and below. Ammo and health overall seemed pretty balanced, foudn myself down to my pistol a couple times in MAP01 but nothing tragic. 

 

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Very sweet set, reminded me of NRFTL and Dutch Devil style here and there. Since you're asking for feedback, I took some screenies in different parts where a thing or two could use tweaking, which I'll be wording later tomorrow.

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20 hours ago, Faceman2000 said:

These maps look gorgeous!

 

19 hours ago, Astro X said:

Congrats on the release. Screenies look good!

 

17 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

Agreeing with everyone else that those screenshots look exquisite.  You've really pushed the vanilla textures to their utmost, it seems.

 

17 hours ago, Walter confetti said:

Looks impressive from the screenshots!

 

17 hours ago, Noiser said:

Beautiful! It reminds me of "no rest for the living"

Thank you for the responses. I probably spent too much time over detailing everything instead of focusing more on gameplay, but at least the maps look alright!

 

16 hours ago, kalensar said:

Ill give it a minor play right now and then update this post afterward!

 

Short demo video of Map01. I die but its pretty good layout!

 

Thanks for the video! This is probably what I was most hoping for, to actually get an idea of how the maps play for people other than myself (Although I realize now that I should of just picked one of these maps and released it on its own so it's not as long of a time investment).

 

16 hours ago, Thelokk said:

Pretty nice and tough stuff! Reminds me of 'No Rest' as some said, but also definitely has some Sigil moments. Definitely a UV for a super casual player like me, first thing I would probably tone down the hitscanners if you want to implement HMP and below. Ammo and health overall seemed pretty balanced, foudn myself down to my pistol a couple times in MAP01 but nothing tragic. 

 

Thank you for taking the time and giving some feedback. Do you think it would be better to outright remove the number of hitscanners, or to replace the more powerful ones (chaingunners) with shotgunners/zombiemen? I'm glad the health/ammo seemed balanced overall, but having to resort to pistol sounds bad to me as I hate having to use it myself. I should maybe throw in some more shells at the beginning.

 

9 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Very sweet set, reminded me of NRFTL and Dutch Devil style here and there. Since you're asking for feedback, I took some screenies in different parts where a thing or two could use tweaking, which I'll be wording later tomorrow.

That sounds great! I appreciate that you took the time to look at the maps and are willing to help me improve them.

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15 minutes ago, Lerxst_In_Wonderland said:

Thank you for taking the time and giving some feedback. Do you think it would be better to outright remove the number of hitscanners, or to replace the more powerful ones (chaingunners) with shotgunners/zombiemen? I'm glad the health/ammo seemed balanced overall, but having to resort to pistol sounds bad to me as I hate having to use it myself. I should maybe throw in some more shells at the beginning.

 

I'd just trim the crowd a bit for HMP really, wouldn't take out chaingunners. Ammo seemed to come a bit in waves - moments of starvation, and then plenty. Might have been poor ammo management on my part really, but dunno, maybe you could try spreding it out a bit more across the maps?

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Maps are cool and the detail shows. But we're pretty intensive with non stop action, hitscanners and a trap every damn second lol. Was gunna play all 6 in one go but ran out of stamina 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Thelokk said:

 

I'd just trim the crowd a bit for HMP really, wouldn't take out chaingunners. Ammo seemed to come a bit in waves - moments of starvation, and then plenty. Might have been poor ammo management on my part really, but dunno, maybe you could try spreding it out a bit more across the maps?

That sounds good. I'll try to distribute the ammo out more evenly throughout the maps. Also, thanks for the feedback on changes for different difficulties.

 

1 hour ago, Clippy said:

Maps are cool and the detail shows. But we're pretty intensive with non stop action, hitscanners and a trap every damn second lol. Was gunna play all 6 in one go but ran out of stamina 

 

 

 

Holy crap this made my day!...although I'm really sorry about the hitscanners! I think I just got too used to my own maps and had trouble gauging difficulty/challenge and not realizing it would become annoying after a while. I just like the feeling of mowing through them, Knee Deep in the Dead style. I don't think I realized how much people hate 'em (or at least hate them when used excessively like I did haha).

 

Watching this is invaluable, and you were completely right about the lack of rad suits in MAP02 (I added 2 more spread across the map, and will probably add a few more to the later maps as well). The progression seemed a little wonky in MAP02 as well, though I'm not sure how to fix that yet.

 

But yeah, thank you for the video and taking the time to try some of the maps. I really appreciate it (and I really am sorry about the over the top hitscanner stuff haha. I hope I didn't ruin your day!).

 

 

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@Lerxst_In_Wonderland don't apologize for hit scanners or feel the need to change anything but do keep this in mind I typically play maps once and that's it

 

As you've known this map for a year and a half you probably know every single ambush like the back of your hand but for a first timer it's like whaaaaaaaaaat lol 

 

Good times

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Alright, feedback. These are mostly map-per-map assorted observations, in spoilers because the post got longer in the end:


 

Spoiler

 

Map01

 

- Would suggest removing any block lines on these windows, the lost souls are harmless until you go outdoors and players can easily snipe them away from safety (ignoring is always another choice, but I think a few souls able to sneak up would be fine). Raise the steps so players can't jump outside. An alternative could be to have the souls only appear once outside, so it's your choice there.

 

Map02

 

- The cacodemon at the RL part had a hard time coming out, I may suggest either widen the frame or replace with a thinner monster, a revenant perhaps.

- After hitting the YK switch you have a revenant spawn in the way and another plus two imps dormant in a closet. I felt they should have been able to hear me dueling the rev and join in, given the tone of the traps in general, that one in particular was a missed opportunity. 

 

Map03 

 

- The only thing I didn't get the point of is the second switch to the BFG, seemed like it's just to derail getting it without no interesting twist. Perhaps the switch could also lower the window (sector 486) and additionally spawn an archvile or whatever to put your reward into good use, since cells are plentiful already.

 

Map04

 

- I'd suggest adding monster block lines around the teleport sector 242, it's minor though I found an imp lost in the little armor room.

- There was an imp stuck in the westernmost area, it must have walked on the small sectors behind so there should be block lines to prevent that happening.

 

Map05

 

- These couple imps couldn't spawn anywhere. Always use WR lines for this type of closets off the map (unless there's a very specific gimmick involved where W1 lines are intentional, which isn't the case here).

- The fliers on sector 333 can barely leave through the gap, actually I could easily kill them all inside there with no harm to my part, so that space might need to be widened a bit.

- I wasn't sure what's intended to kill the cyberdemon in the red cave. If you were to teleport on its platform, there's 50/50 chance of getting instantly pushed off or killed. Sniping from a distance is trivial but tedious and inefficient, because lots of plasma go wasted as it's constantly moving. The secret invul was only accessible by jumping from the highest where the cyb is, so not a tempting choice in my book. If you did want players to get close, then having some cover around the spot you teleport in would enable that strat without potentially unlucky rng.

 

Map06

 

- Nothing :)

 

Additional things:

 

- You might want to give your set a title, it'd make it far easier to recognize and recommend between folks.

- Some custom music is very much needed too, mostly for the last three maps as the stock tracks don't fit in the slightest.

- I played in Crispy Doom and found no glaring issues regarding compatibility and details, though I got the stock sky through every map since it doesn't support MAPINFO. Crispy does support MBF sky transfers (specials 271/272 in boom) which would come in handy in case you do wish non-zdoom users to see the intended skies, besides applying those is quite simple, if slightly tedious. 

- Automap and tally screens also don't display the new titles, again a port difference. You could make a dehacked patch for automap names, and custom CWILVXX lumps for the tally using a doom text editor like this

- A titlepic would "complete the package", though none of these suggestions are all that necessary (well, the stock music is still a concern) so it's all up to you.

 

 

In terms of gameplay and such, I don't really have anything to complain -- you have a very solid understanding of enemies and geometry altogether, there's plenty of bloodiness and variety of scenarios from close quarters combat to open areas with pressure from all angles and moderate attrition factor that kept me on my toes continuously, environmental hazards included, even a pair of light visors that's useful without compromising the visuals (!). No issues regarding health/armor or progression - I only got lost in the third map because a pair of dead imps were covering the RK, and realizing that was amusing. 

 

Regarding lower skills the possibilities are multiple, depending on your aim. You could reduce the sting of some encounters in many ways, such as lowering the number of the more problematic monsters, or relocating them where they'd be represent a lesser challenge, or replace a few with lesser troubles (I don't advice chaingunners to sergeants, because the damage these two do on average isn't too different from each other, and shotgunners are very capable of being worse).

 

Adding more substantial health resources instead of taking out monsters is a valid choice too, for example a soulsphere during standard progression where there'd otherwise be nothing on UV, or a non-secret blur sphere in a place with hitscanners roaming. Another is to give players a different arrangement of tools to work out things, e.g. handing a chaingun instead of a shotgun at the start, or making the SSG more readily accessible early on, or start m06 with a plasma gun on HNTR. There're more obscure options if you realize that skill settings affect decorations and teleport things as well, and while you can only do so much in limit removing, there's no need to go with the typical "rev>HK>imp" or the like, although nothing stops you from taking that way.

 

Anyways, thanks for sharing the maps, really cool stuff!

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Crunched for time but did one more. That's my last video of any maps til next week busy times 

 

 

 

I got my sandwich and it was so good 

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First demo attempt in HNTR, made using PrBoom+, complevel 2:

lercazh.7z

 

I made a UMAPINFO lump for this map so that you can get the intended music, names and skies on PrBoom+ and its derivatives, as well as many other ports instead of just ZDoom-based ones. May I please post the lump?

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4 hours ago, Pistoolkip said:

Does the WAD itself have a title or theme, or is it just a collecting of 6 different maps you made?

 

It's basically just a collection of maps I made at separate times that I loosely strung together so the progression makes sense in terms of difficulty ramp up/theme.

 

4 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

Alright, feedback. These are mostly map-per-map assorted observations, in spoilers because the post got longer in the end:


 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Map01

 

- Would suggest removing any block lines on these windows, the lost souls are harmless until you go outdoors and players can easily snipe them away from safety (ignoring is always another choice, but I think a few souls able to sneak up would be fine). Raise the steps so players can't jump outside. An alternative could be to have the souls only appear once outside, so it's your choice there.

 

Map02

 

- The cacodemon at the RL part had a hard time coming out, I may suggest either widen the frame or replace with a thinner monster, a revenant perhaps.

- After hitting the YK switch you have a revenant spawn in the way and another plus two imps dormant in a closet. I felt they should have been able to hear me dueling the rev and join in, given the tone of the traps in general, that one in particular was a missed opportunity. 

 

Map03 

 

- The only thing I didn't get the point of is the second switch to the BFG, seemed like it's just to derail getting it without no interesting twist. Perhaps the switch could also lower the window (sector 486) and additionally spawn an archvile or whatever to put your reward into good use, since cells are plentiful already.

 

Map04

 

- I'd suggest adding monster block lines around the teleport sector 242, it's minor though I found an imp lost in the little armor room.

- There was an imp stuck in the westernmost area, it must have walked on the small sectors behind so there should be block lines to prevent that happening.

 

Map05

 

- These couple imps couldn't spawn anywhere. Always use WR lines for this type of closets off the map (unless there's a very specific gimmick involved where W1 lines are intentional, which isn't the case here).

- The fliers on sector 333 can barely leave through the gap, actually I could easily kill them all inside there with no harm to my part, so that space might need to be widened a bit.

- I wasn't sure what's intended to kill the cyberdemon in the red cave. If you were to teleport on its platform, there's 50/50 chance of getting instantly pushed off or killed. Sniping from a distance is trivial but tedious and inefficient, because lots of plasma go wasted as it's constantly moving. The secret invul was only accessible by jumping from the highest where the cyb is, so not a tempting choice in my book. If you did want players to get close, then having some cover around the spot you teleport in would enable that strat without potentially unlucky rng.

 

Map06

 

- Nothing :)

 

Additional things:

 

- You might want to give your set a title, it'd make it far easier to recognize and recommend between folks.

- Some custom music is very much needed too, mostly for the last three maps as the stock tracks don't fit in the slightest.

- I played in Crispy Doom and found no glaring issues regarding compatibility and details, though I got the stock sky through every map since it doesn't support MAPINFO. Crispy does support MBF sky transfers (specials 271/272 in boom) which would come in handy in case you do wish non-zdoom users to see the intended skies, besides applying those is quite simple, if slightly tedious. 

- Automap and tally screens also don't display the new titles, again a port difference. You could make a dehacked patch for automap names, and custom CWILVXX lumps for the tally using a doom text editor like this

- A titlepic would "complete the package", though none of these suggestions are all that necessary (well, the stock music is still a concern) so it's all up to you.

 

 

In terms of gameplay and such, I don't really have anything to complain -- you have a very solid understanding of enemies and geometry altogether, there's plenty of bloodiness and variety of scenarios from close quarters combat to open areas with pressure from all angles and moderate attrition factor that kept me on my toes continuously, environmental hazards included, even a pair of light visors that's useful without compromising the visuals (!). No issues regarding health/armor or progression - I only got lost in the third map because a pair of dead imps were covering the RK, and realizing that was amusing. 

 

Regarding lower skills the possibilities are multiple, depending on your aim. You could reduce the sting of some encounters in many ways, such as lowering the number of the more problematic monsters, or relocating them where they'd be represent a lesser challenge, or replace a few with lesser troubles (I don't advice chaingunners to sergeants, because the damage these two do on average isn't too different from each other, and shotgunners are very capable of being worse).

 

Adding more substantial health resources instead of taking out monsters is a valid choice too, for example a soulsphere during standard progression where there'd otherwise be nothing on UV, or a non-secret blur sphere in a place with hitscanners roaming. Another is to give players a different arrangement of tools to work out things, e.g. handing a chaingun instead of a shotgun at the start, or making the SSG more readily accessible early on, or start m06 with a plasma gun on HNTR. There're more obscure options if you realize that skill settings affect decorations and teleport things as well, and while you can only do so much in limit removing, there's no need to go with the typical "rev>HK>imp" or the like, although nothing stops you from taking that way.

 

Anyways, thanks for sharing the maps, really cool stuff!

 

Holy smokes, this was insanely useful. Thank you so much for this! I've already implemented a lot of the fixes you suggested and will update the zip later in the week. Also, thank you for your suggestions when creating different difficulty levels. Will keep those in mind as well. Glad you liked the maps overall :)

 

3 hours ago, Clippy said:

Crunched for time but did one more. That's my last video of any maps til next week busy times 

 

 

 

I got my sandwich and it was so good 

 

Thanks for playing through another map...probably against your better judgement haha. I realized when watching this (and reading galileo31dos01's post) that the BFG secret is kind of tedious and the player takes a crapload of damage for no reason, so I took galileo31dos01's advice and fixed it. I also fixed the pillar the BFG is on so you can't get stuck. Thanks for pointing that out (it's weird I never found that through testing). You were quick to find that Soulsphere secret though! You found it before you could even see it in the next room.

 

These videos are super useful though, and I appreciate you taking the time to do this.

 

Also, I'm glad you got your sandwich haha :)

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2 hours ago, GratefulName said:

Hey there! just made this UMAPINFO Lump for this WAD so everyone can properly enjoy of this map in your favorite Sourceport. (Includes Level Names, Music and Skies)
Also @Lerxst_In_Wonderland i would really recommend you to add CWILV Graphics for your map.

LERXSTPAKUMAP.zip

 

48 minutes ago, Nikku4211 said:

First demo attempt in HNTR, made using PrBoom+, complevel 2:

lercazh.7z

 

I made a UMAPINFO lump for this map so that you can get the intended music, names and skies on PrBoom+ and its derivatives, as well as many other ports instead of just ZDoom-based ones. May I please post the lump?

 

Thank you for this. I probably should have just looked into how to to do UMAPINFO instead of MAPINFO for compatibility. Will look into CWILV Graphics for an update/future maps.

 

Nikku4211, it seems like GratefulName did it already, but sure you can post it if you want. Thank you for the demo as well!

5 minutes ago, Valboom said:

I've played the first three maps so far, really great job!

 

Thank you! Glad you're enjoying them so far :)

 

(Sorry for the double post. I couldn't quote anymore, so I made this second post).

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Currently, whenever I'm playing Doom, I feel obliged to be recording for a contest I'm currently holding.. but god dang, as soon as I'm done with that, I'm gonna be diving into this. Those screenshots look so damn nice!

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Ah, so there was a rearrangement of the music tracks after all. In Crispy you get the original sequence, because there're no music lumps in the wad. Still feel like some custom midis wouldn't hurt, could always recycle from other wads, but knowing now that you'd hear d_romero in the last map makes a suitable (and subtle) difference nonetheless. 

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I just finished this mapset, professional quality. For me it is perfect in everything! 10/10.

P.s: It needs a name!

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yes, this needs a name, and an audience! Tight-combat and beautiful aesthetics.

 

I played through the whole episode and recorded map06 for your enjoyment.
That Cyberdemon kill was something special!
 

 

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16 hours ago, Lerxst_In_Wonderland said:

Nikku4211, it seems like GratefulName did it already, but sure you can post it if you want. Thank you for the demo as well!

Alright, here's my version of the lump:

LERXUMAPINFO.7z

 

Use SLADE 3 to insert it into your copy of the map.

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On 3/27/2022 at 11:30 PM, Doomkid said:

Currently, whenever I'm playing Doom, I feel obliged to be recording for a contest I'm currently holding.. but god dang, as soon as I'm done with that, I'm gonna be diving into this. Those screenshots look so damn nice!

 

Glad you like the screens! You're tutorial videos we're some of the earlier ones I watched to get started mapping. Thank you for those! They helped a lot :)

On 3/28/2022 at 10:56 AM, Valboom said:

I just finished this mapset, professional quality. For me it is perfect in everything! 10/10.

P.s: It needs a name!

 

Thank you for the kind words, I'm happy you enjoyed them! I'm pretty bad at naming things...so I'm all ears if anyone has any suggestions.

On 3/28/2022 at 11:02 AM, Pistoolkip said:

yes, this needs a name, and an audience! Tight-combat and beautiful aesthetics.

 

I played through the whole episode and recorded map06 for your enjoyment.
That Cyberdemon kill was something special!
 

 

 

Damn, you made that look easy haha! Really nice playthrough (and glad you liked the rest of the maps as well). I don't think I ever got the Cyberdemon stuck like that...would have made life easier! For some reason, I when I tested it, I usually went for the Red Key/ Shotgun first, but it seems like getting the Plasma secret and taking out the Cyberdemon first is a better idea. Nice job on the final area as well. I would usually rush the invulnerability to take out the Cyberdemon, but saving it seems to work just as good, if not better.

 

But yeah, really solid video. I thoroughly enjoyed it! I liked the quick clips of the different maps you did at the start of the video as well. Kind of like a mini trailer/preview. Really nice stuff! Thanks again:)

On 3/28/2022 at 2:56 PM, Nikku4211 said:

Alright, here's my version of the lump:

LERXUMAPINFO.7z

 

Use SLADE 3 to insert it into your copy of the map.

 

Nice! Thank you :) I'll be incorporating it in the next version, with various other fixes/suggestions that have been posted, probably later this week sometime.

 

Edited by Lerxst_In_Wonderland

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