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Senor Cacodemon

Doom Rtx is insane!

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Yeah, it makes the game look more "modern". It's not my style for Doom, but I will admit the new effects do catch my eyes.

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It's a significant achievement and I don't wanna sound like I'm just mindlessly dunking on someone's effort, but aside from some neat elements like player shadows, I think the whole thing looks really ugly. :/

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My initial experience was, "Ow, my eyes" accompanied by a gpu that sounded like it was about to lift off and that's where I left it. I admire the work involved by sultim-t et al (I'm assuming that's who's developing it) but I'm surprised that it's been so universally well received, and have seen it featured by several popular Youtubers with almost nothing but high praise. It's cool that so many people are enjoying it.

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It's a start, it is impressive and with more refinement it could look absolutely amazing but I'm gonna pass on this for now. It's still too early in development.

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Call me a purist, but I think it looks terrible. There's a reason why DOOM still looks good, and it isn't because of effects that will be dated in a few years.

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Just now, Wavy said:

Honestly, I would've preferred Doom 3 RTX. That's a Doom game that would benefit from raytracing a lot more honestly.

100% agree

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3 minutes ago, Wavy said:

This is more of curiosity than anything. Implementing these modern lighting and rendering engines into primitive 3D games like Doom don't work well at all personally.

 

Honestly, I would've preferred Doom 3 RTX. That's a Doom game that would benefit from raytracing a lot more.

"DoOm 3 iS a GooD gAme BuT noT a GOoD DOOM GAmE!!1!"

 

Yeah, Doom 3 with RTX is something I never knew I wanted. That would be awesome, especially considering the fact that it still looks impressive after all these years without any enhancements.

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3 hours ago, PasokonDeacon said:

Part of my dislike is also that, again, this is what gets peoples' eyes back on classic Doom again and not the many excellent maps/mods coming out (that aren't just jokes/memes). It'd be one thing if some new revivalist FPS game hit it big with awesome path-tracing/ray-tracing, properly integrating the lighting engine's elements in with intended looks. But I don't see that with Doom RTX, nor do I think that's the end goal. It's a great tech demo that I see some folks taking as a proper/"definitive" new aesthetic for the game. I doubt Sultim wanted to make this in order to obsolete the classic Doom lighting look anyway, but too many people and press authors conflate tech progress with audiovisual progress at the expense of how something older can still look great.

 

This. THIS!!! While I am okay with Doom getting more publicity, it makes me sad that it is things like this (or Selfie Doom or other such "headline" producing, but otherwise not so useful Doom mods) that get peoples eyes on Doom and not the countless awesome quality wads/mods that are being released.

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50 minutes ago, Wavy said:

This is more of curiosity than anything. Implementing these modern lighting and rendering engines into primitive 3D games like Doom don't work well at all personally.

 

Honestly, I would've preferred Doom 3 RTX. That's a Doom game that would benefit from raytracing a lot more.

I'm not even a huge fan of Doom 3 and yet I would totally replay it if it had raycasting.

 

I should play this one though to get a proper opinion on it. If anything, this site and forum do not constitute the target audience for this mod given it likely has the biggest ratio of people who are happy with playing Doom at 320x200 at 35 FPS. No offense meant or anything, of course. 

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2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Lmfao, I love how all the comments from non-Doomers on the various YT videos about this are like "WOW! It makes this old piece of disgusting shit look playable again!"

 

..and everyone on DW is just like ".....look, I appreciate the effort. Clearly there was a lot!... but, gross."

That, and "Brutal Doom should have this."

 

Doom RTX can look exceptional in certain places and flatout wrong in most other areas. It needs dedicated levels imo to show off well.

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2 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

 It needs dedicated levels imo to show off well.

 

 

This is what those tech nerds never will understand.

While I appreciate the technical achievement behind this port, I cannot honestly say that I like how this looks.

 

The thing is, you can't light a scene like this. Look at a real indoor location. Unless you got a windowless room with no lights on, does it ever look like there's a single point light source? No, most certainly not. Even with a single light bulb you still got some illumination in the shadows due to refraction, but RTX is still far too costly to properly calculate light refractions to the point where it looks right - you still need some ambient light to compensate for this and this is totally lacking in that demo, like it is in almost every other demo that tries to demonstrate "modern lighting effects".

 

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That last screenshot with the excessive glow on the green ooze reminds me of the mid- to late-2000s when the trend was to drench everything in bloom.

 

P4ycLI7.png

 

You can barely even see any texture detail in this part of the screenshot. It's just a giant featureless smear of green.

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Okay controversial take: I kinda dig how this looks. Though I kinda prefer the lighting looks of GZDoom more. You know, like how Megaspheres have that small light to them, the torches and the lamps also give off that light, the fog effects and also colored lighting.

So yeah if I had a computer that could run RTX Doom, I would still pick some GZDoom mods that use its features to provide some pretty looking maps. I digress.

 

I can't even begin to imagine how much effort this might have taken. RTX Doom is probably some kind of achievement on that front.

 

One thing I don't understand though and this isn't meant as a criticism, I genuine want to know the answer. Why is everything in RTX Doom so dark? Like rooms that had high sector brightness in vanilla seem pitch-black in RTX Doom. Why is that? Why does simulating realistic lighting effects turn Doom into "Can't see shit 'Captian" Simulator?

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This is going to make me sound like a complete snob, but I'll be blunt about the topic (not meant to offend anyone who likes this!):

 

I think more "casual" gamers like the ones you see commenting on the Youtube videos Doomkid mentioned just aren't in tune with things like art direction. This is the same reason you'll see people going "OMG it looks like da future!!" on GTA V Reshade Preset videos. They see any kind of change in general and think it looks better. They don't really seem to recognize things like tasteful lighting, consistent art design, and atmosphere. They just aren't as in depth or knowledgable, not that I expect them to be, as much as I pretentiously sneer at them from my castle above. 

 

It's kind of like casual filmgoers, they watch the new (insert typical "overrated mainstream turd" movie) for the action and follow the basic plot, but they don't even know what the word "cinematography" means. They aren't knowledgable about writing, they like the actors for their celebrity status without analyzing their acting ability. They like the movie because it's new and they're familiar with the franchise.

 

People sometimes mistake change and technical advancement for an improvement in quality. And that's okay, because one day someone with superior taste will beat them mercilessly with a stick.

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this mod and a shitty computer and you got yourself a home made bomb

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3 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

 

This is what those tech nerds never will understand.

While I appreciate the technical achievement behind this port, I cannot honestly say that I like how this looks.

Which is fair. There are scenes where it comes out real well (esp with light fixtures) but traps relying on shadows and dark areas get downright bad. The flashlight is nice, but OG Doom ain't Doom 3.

 

Baked lightmaps integrate better. And fortunately, thats where GZ will have an edge when ZDRay gets fleshed out. The work on Disdain looks incredible but above all, natural.

 

This looks only great at specific places. 

3 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

but RTX is still far too costly to properly calculate light refractions to the point where it looks right - you still need some ambient light to compensate for this and this is totally lacking in that demo, like it is in almost every other demo that tries to demonstrate "modern lighting effects".

Q2 RTX does do refraction but it is underutilized, as is transparent RT from things like glas or car windows. Often, its - still - a cubemap or an SSR planed reflection.

 

RT support in games needs to support the gamut of features and not just stop at wet reflections on the floor. The original Unreal could pull that off already in 1998 with render to texture. A hack, but convincing nonetheless.

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1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

They don't really seem to recognize things like tasteful lighting, consistent art design, and atmosphere.

This is where my brain has trouble with it. It's definitely neat from a technical perspective, even in the here and now, and for what it can/could lead to in the future. But you've got these complex (but as @Graf Zahl pointed out, not fully utilised) technical lighting processes juxtaposed with sprites composed of a handful of animations and my brain just has a fit trying to mesh the two together as a consistent thematic whole because it just plain can't.

 

Even if you concede that OG Doom is old and ugly, you can't deny that the palette choices and the animations and the geometry all work in harmony.

 

This just physically causes me confusion.

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