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Frost-Core

128 Linedefs, 64 Things - A Community Project [1.3.3, finally]

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@Codename_Delta

 

How's this:

Quote

You've found something lost and

forbidden...

You've found Map 31...

 

So forget about slaying demons and

beat this map, and remember to go

for 100% items like a nerd.

 

Edited by Arsinikk

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Ok, new version!

 

128L64T CP (Beta 1.5.1)

  • Changed MAP15 -> MAP31 text transition to a version of @Codename_Delta's text screen he wrote.
  • Fixed MAP26 "Untitled1" to "Untitled Place" @%some random internet shkila
  • Updated your MAP03 and MAP13 with the new versions you uploaded @NaZa
  • Updated @NinjaDelphox's MAP31 with a new version he sent me.
  • Slightly changed lighting on my MAP21 "Malicious Intent" (hopefully it's some what better... It relies on a specific Vanilla sector effect that makes it hard to tweak without removing the intended feel)
  • Changed music for my own maps MAP21 and MAP27 to my own custom midis.

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Here's an update to MAP23:

 

budget_mountain_v2.zip

 

Changes:

  • Implemented difficulty settings
  • Changed lift textures to something more "vertical-looking"
  • Added secret extra radsuit for blind or casual-pace 100% runs
  • Removed least impactful monsters
  • Adjusted final arena flow and timing

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So, I have a new version for y'all to try!

 

128L64T CP (Beta 1.5.2)

 

This version is a little bit of an experiment...

 

I have been trying to reach out to @Frost-Core both in this thread and via private DMs for feedback and some ideas I had, but it seems he hasn't been online for around a week and a half, so I honestly don't know his thoughts on anything.

 

Anyways, this version includes the following:

  • Updated MAP23 to new version (@Large Cat)
  • I have created a tweaked colour palette that tweaks the blue to make some of the menu and CWILV graphics look much nicer.
  • Added a custom HUD with blue coloured numbers. (let me know what you guys think)
  • ^ I wanted to just slightly customise the CP to give it little bit of personality. I await your guys' feedback.

Things I'm most concerned about the CP at the moment:

  • I had some ideas for tweaking MAP04 and MAP07, but I have yet to hear from Frost-Core.
  • @Paf, you are probably a bit busy... But your MAP28 seems to be the only one in the CP that isn't completable with 100% kills on UV pistol start (at least from me and the few people who have tested your map).
  • It would be nice for someone to make up a CREDITS graphic with all of our names on it?

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Just played through the whole thing. Not sure I'm up to giving feedback on everything, so I'll just say a small number of things that stuck out (I also trawled through to make sure maps are within limits, since I'm not sure anyone has decided to do a pass-through of that sort):

  • MAP11 currently has 131 linedefs
  • MAP19 currently has 86 things
  • MAP25 is out-of-place difficulty-wise, offering almost no resistance compared to the rest of the episode, which is generally pretty even in intensity
  • MAP28 is the only map I don't think I could survive consistently after a dozen attempts or so

The rest is looking good, given the limitations. I hope my MAP23 comes across well, because it's surrounded by bangers with MAP22 and MAP24.

Regarding the new assets:

  • The lighter blue put me off at first with light sources (e.g. lamps and plasma), but I've come around to it. I certainly buy that most menu graphics look better in the new shade. The rest of the blue in the WAD is innocuous to my eyes.
  • The new numbers and CWILV font look fine to me. I think the ideal case is a custom font with "as few edges as possible" to mirror the WAD theme, though that could be a lot of work, especially to implement the CWILV without a font generator. If I made custom "low edge count" numbers, what would we think about using those in the HUD?

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3 hours ago, Large Cat said:

MAP11 currently has 131 linedefs

I'm surprised no one else has noticed / mentioned this. I'm glad someone actually went through the maps to check for line count and thing count. While I've been doing alot of the packaging, I hadn't gotten around to checking if each map made the CP criteria.

 

@LGmaire Apparently your MAP11 "Circle of Gatekeeping" has 131 linedefs, 3 linedefs higher than the 128 line limit of this CP.

 

3 hours ago, Large Cat said:

MAP19 currently has 86 things

This is technically correct in totality. However for each skill it seems there are 61 things for each. I don't think the OP was that clear on whether it was 64 things across all difficulties, or just 64 things per difficulty... Although I'm pretty sure Frost-Core has mentioned that it was supposed to be 64 things across all difficulties further down this neverending thread...

 

@Sneezy McGlassFace Could you updated your MAP19 to have only 64 things in totality, instead of the 86 things it currently has. Also just curious, do you still want your name in the map graphic to say "HrnekBezucha"?

 

3 hours ago, Large Cat said:

MAP25 is out-of-place difficulty-wise, offering almost no resistance compared to the rest of the episode, which is generally pretty even in intensity

I'll admit that MAP25 is pretty easy map... Though imo, I'd rather have an easy map in the middle of harder maps, than a brutally hard map that's harder than all the maps around it (i.e. MAP28 which is not beatable on UV pistol start).

 

We currently have not moved any maps around, and it was decided in the OP that mappers would receive specific mapslots. I think MAP25 has a certain charm to it (especially with it's music), and you could easy see it as a breather map in-between more difficult maps.

 

3 hours ago, Large Cat said:

MAP28 is the only map I don't think I could survive consistently after a dozen attempts or so

Like me, LGmaire and NaZa have said, this map doesn't seem that balanced to actually be beatable. I think it's a fine map if you go through it without killing everything... You can definitely get through most of the map by encouraging infighting... I think my main problem is the final archviles/too many revenants at the end with not enough ammo to dispatch both of them.

 

3 hours ago, Large Cat said:

The lighter blue put me off at first with light sources (e.g. lamps and plasma), but I've come around to it. I certainly buy that most menu graphics look better in the new shade. The rest of the blue in the WAD is innocuous to my eyes.

A palette change is always gonna throw people a little off, but I try to be very minimalist when it comes to the palette so that the sprites and textures don't have to be changed. From my testing, it seemed to work fine across all sprites (decorations and plasma), textures and flats.

 

Honestly the idea was two-fold:

  • a minor palette change makes the project a bit more unique, and
  • Frost-Core created the M_DOOM and TITLEPIC, which included melty blue coloured text, that imo didn't look very good converted to the doom palette.

Earlier in the project, I took the same melty text and applied it to all the CWILV graphics for both WAD branding and consistency. The idea for it's use in the HUD numbers was for brand uniqueness and to showcase a bit of the new blue palette more. I always thought the blue melty text looked a bit like ice or cold, and so I kinda went with that theme with the actual HUD background.

 

3 hours ago, Large Cat said:

The new numbers and CWILV font look fine to me. I think the ideal case is a custom font with "as few edges as possible" to mirror the WAD theme, though that could be a lot of work, especially to implement the CWILV without a font generator. If I made custom "low edge count" numbers, what would we think about using those in the HUD?

I'm gonna be honest... I wouldn't be looking forward to redoing the CWILV with a new font... When it comes to a new font, I'd be mostly concerned about readability and WAD consistency. While we could technically have "low edge count" numbers, it kinda seems weird to me for this project since this project isn't just limited lines. What's nice about the normal doom HUD numbers and the melty numbers is that from my experience, it's quite easy to read from a glance, since the fonts were basically made from id Software themselves to an extent. (also the melty numbers were used to match Frost-Core's TITLEPIC).

Edited by Arsinikk

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1 hour ago, Arsinikk said:

 

 

I'll admit that MAP25 is pretty easy map... Though imo, I'd rather have an easy map in the middle of harder maps, than a brutally hard map that's harder than all the maps around it (i.e. MAP28 which is not beatable on UV pistol start).

Map 26 kinda do be easy tho. And that’s two easy maps in a row surrounded by extremely hard maps, leading towards real difficulty whiplash (ambiviolence cough cough).

I kinda feel anxious that my map is not hard enough compared to the rest of the episode (ESPECIALLY with pistol start) 

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11 minutes ago, %some random internet shkila said:

Map 26 kinda do be easy tho. And that’s two easy maps in a row surrounded by extremely hard maps, leading towards real difficulty whiplash (ambiviolence cough cough).

I kinda feel anxious that my map is not hard enough compared to the rest of the episode (ESPECIALLY with pistol start) 

I must be like one of the only people that thinks that map26 is not easy... Like yeah, it's not super hard, but like if you fall off into the death pit / cop a rocket, you're done for.

 

Also are you sure you don't just think it's easy since its your map. :P

 

After all, I think map27 is a pretty easy map.

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1 minute ago, Arsinikk said:

I must be like one of the only people that thinks that map26 is not easy... Like yeah, it's not super hard, but like if you fall off into the death pit / cop a rocket, you're done for.

 

Also are you sure you don't just think it's easy since its your map. :P

 

After all, I think map27 is a pretty easy map.

Fair enough.

btw, im finished with map35, the only thing left is making a custom midi for it.

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2 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

MAP28 which is not beatable on UV pistol start

I've actually playtested the map on UV Pistol Start (because I tested through UDB to make sure it worked correctly)

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11 minutes ago, Paf said:

I've actually playtested the map on UV Pistol Start (because I tested through UDB to make sure it worked correctly)

maybe you could make a demo of your method?

i think he meant beatable as in gettin all the kills.

in either case i know the main post didnt say anything, but maybe you can add difficulty settings by unchecking some enemies.

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14 minutes ago, Paf said:

I've actually playtested the map on UV Pistol Start (because I tested through UDB to make sure it worked correctly)

Ok, my bad... Did you test for 100% kills for UV. (That's what I actually meant for beatable).

 

I mean I can definitely beat it if I just rush for the exit, ignoring 100% kills.

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21 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

Ok, my bad... Did you test for 100% kills for UV. (That's what I actually meant for beatable).

Yeah, I'll try to demo it again then.

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4 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

@Sneezy McGlassFace Could you updated your MAP19 to have only 64 things in totality, instead of the 86 things it currently has. Also just curious, do you still want your name in the map graphic to say "HrnekBezucha"?

7 hours ago, Large Cat said:

MAP19 currently has 86 things 

 

It's 86 in editor because I implemented difficulty levels. It is 64 for each difficulty.

And I changed the name here because people had trouble pronouncing HrnekBezucha.

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3 hours ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

It's 86 in editor because I implemented difficulty levels. It is 64 for each difficulty.

Yes, at the moment, your map has 86 things. The map must have no more than a total of 64 placed things, regardless of difficulty.

 

That means you probably shouldn't substitute monsters per difficulty, but rather just remove monsters on lower difficulties.

 

3 hours ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

And I changed the name here because people had trouble pronouncing HrnekBezucha.

This is fine. On the intermission screen, right now it says "With All Disrespect by HrnekBezucha".

 

I'm asking if you would like me to change it to "With All Disrespect by Sneezy McGlassFace" instead.

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7 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

Yes, at the moment, your map has 86 things. The map must have no more than a total of 64 placed things, regardless of difficulty.

 

That means you probably shouldn't substitute monsters per difficulty, but rather just remove monsters on lower difficulties.

 

This is fine. On the intermission screen, right now it says "With All Disrespect by HrnekBezucha".

 

I'm asking if you would like me to change it to "With All Disrespect by Sneezy McGlassFace" instead.

thats also one of the reasons most people didnt put any coop/deathmatch starts

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6 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

regardless of difficulty

Okay, I didn't know that. I'll make an update later today. 

6 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

I'm asking if you would like me to change it to "With All Disrespect by Sneezy McGlassFace" instead.

Nope, HrnekBezucha is good. 

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On 7/21/2022 at 12:37 PM, Arsinikk said:

@LGmaire Apparently your MAP11 "Circle of Gatekeeping" has 131 linedefs, 3 linedefs higher than the 128 line limit of this CP.

 

Oops, didn't notice this... So here's a second version.

 

lidthnglgv2.zip

 

I checked, and this version has 128 linedefs! I replaced the secret armor bonus, added some more ammo and did some small changes to the enemy placement to make it a bit more challenging. Thanks for letting me know about this so I could fix it! :)

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And yet again, another update emerges...


128L64T CP (Beta 1.5.3)

 

Changes to the update:

  • A very minor change, but I've renamed the vanilla deh file to remove beta from it, since I do not think the vanilla dehacked will change (much) moving forward.
  • Includes updates to MAP11 and MAP19 to fit within the CP rules! (Thanks a bunch @LGmaire and @Sneezy McGlassFace! We appreciate your extra work!)

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@Sneezy McGlassFace eyo was playtesting map19 on the newest version and came across this:

Spoiler

Z4ns8Rdl.png

these guys are stuck! i assume they were meant to appear on different difficulties but they're tagged both in hard, normal and easy!

now, i understand it may be annoying to test every difficulty to check if all enemies are fine so im gonna give you a tip.

map analysis mode in UDB is a wonderful way to quickly scan your map for errors like these (default key is F4)

AAwvatKl.png

there are a couple of unused textures that you dont really need to worry much about but the important thing is there at the bottom, it reports those entities are stuck, saving you a playtest on all difficulties.

now, its gonna offer u to remove one of the entities but you dont need to do that of course, you can simply tag them to appear in different difficulties so they're not stuck, i assume you already knew this and simply forgot to tag these enemies.

now im not sure what editor you use soooo hopefully this is helpful ñ_ñ

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On 7/22/2022 at 1:17 PM, LGmaire said:

 

Oops, didn't notice this... So here's a second version.

 

lidthnglgv2.zip

 

I checked, and this version has 128 linedefs! I replaced the secret armor bonus, added some more ammo and did some small changes to the enemy placement to make it a bit more challenging. Thanks for letting me know about this so I could fix it! :)

had a lil playtest of this newest version.

Spoiler

i like most of the changes except the HKs, its cool to have turret enemies but i feel like imps would've done the trick just fine, its kinda annoying to kill the Hks with the shotgun since they are a bit spongy for the arsenal you have.

i suggest change the HKs to imps, have Revs or even give an ssg c: (you can put an ssg where the radsuit is maybe and give the radsuit earlier? i usually end up ignoring the radsuit since by the time i can get it i dont have to step on nukage again lol.)

i miss the fatso too, i feel like the fight was more dynamic with it instead of the arachnotron personally

 

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