BEATEN Sunlust UV MAX, single-segment.

[nobleflame]

EDIT: finally finished map 30, and therefore SUNLUST, last night. Full write up of God Machine will be up later, either today or tomorrow. What a ride!

 

Hi all, 

I just wanted to share that I have very nearly beaten Sunlust UV MAX, pistol starting each map, no saves. I'm on Map 28 and it feels doable, as in, I feel like I have the skill and I know the strats; I just need to actually do it. 

 

Years ago, when I picked up DOOM again after a long hiatus, I started UV MAXing each level from pistol start. I've been through most popular WADs and I feel that my skills have incrementally improved. Playing Sunlust has in turn made me better and I almost feel ready to finish this monster. 

 

Only time will tell. Map 20 and 24 nearly broke me.

Edited May 19, 2022 by nobleflame

[ImproversGaming]

Ha, this is funny. I might be looking at my future.

 

I to returned to Doom after a long hiatus and have set myself the challenge of working through increasingly difficult WADs to the point that I can take on Sunlust on UV from a pistol start. I am really enjoying the journey but am very much at the start of it. Hopefully someday I will achieve the same as you, but it looks a long way off right now!

 

All the best with finishing it off and let us know how it goes!

[Jacek Bourne]

Do you have attempt counts for every map? If so, I would like to hear them.

[nobleflame]

3 hours ago, ImproversGaming said:

Ha, this is funny. I might be looking at my future.

 

I to returned to Doom after a long hiatus and have set myself the challenge of working through increasingly difficult WADs to the point that I can take on Sunlust on UV from a pistol start. I am really enjoying the journey but am very much at the start of it. Hopefully someday I will achieve the same as you, but it looks a long way off right now!

 

All the best with finishing it off and let us know how it goes!

Nice mate! I hope you get there! I know you will. Just persevere!

 

Prior to Sunlust I did Ancient Aliens and Abandon (in the case of the latter, I saved after each fight, but the levels have enemy counts in the thousands and each fight teaches you how to move groups around).

 

Let me know when you get there!

[nobleflame]

3 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

Do you have attempt counts for every map? If so, I would like to hear them.

Not for each map, but most didn’t give me too much trouble.

 

20 and 24, however, the counts were in the high 10s, possibly breaking 100.

 

You definitely need to learn those maps and hope for the best!

[Jacek Bourne]

There are no RNG dependent sections in Sunlust map20 so in that case you just have to not fuck things up which was quite difficult in that map.

[nobleflame]

2 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

There are no RNG dependent sections in Sunlust map20 so in that case you just have to not fuck things up which was quite difficult in that map.

I'd argue the trap door room has an element of RNG in the sense that just before you grab the BFG you have to SSG the cyber - apparently it's 7/8 chance of him firing, but, if he doesn't, you're sandwiched between barons / archies in front and the cyber behind. Still doable, but pretty unlikely.

[nobleflame]

Just finished Maelstrom in far less attempts than I thought - didn't count, but it was under 10. I was expecting to spend a good few days trying to master this.

 

Essentially, there's one challenging fight and one arduous fight; all other fights can be beaten with a clear strat.

 

The challenging fight for me was the cave with hell knights and cybers, followed a minute and a half later by teleporting revs and archies. Really challenging because space was very limited. I decided to play aggressive and hit the revs and archies as soon as they popped. 

 

The arduous fight was the final fight, broken into three waves. Just use the pillars to hide from archie fire and you'll be fine. 

 

Probably the best map so far. Time to grab a celebratory beer :)

[BigMetalhead]

That sounds like hell lol. Sunlust on UV sounds like a massive pain festival, so it's impressive to hear that you're nearly done with. I hope you make it to the end!

[FEZ_GG]

Congratulations on clearing Maelstrom!  How much have you been saving in Sunlust, if at all?

I've been UV-maxing difficult WADs to build up my skill toward Sunlust, so I'll be in your position soon.  I just got done with Hell Revealed and Alien Vendetta, and currently on Plutonia 2, before moving on to Scythe 2 and finally Sunlust.

[nobleflame]

8 hours ago, BigMetalhead said:

That sounds like hell lol. Sunlust on UV sounds like a massive pain festival, so it's impressive to hear that you're nearly done with. I hope you make it to the end!

Thanks! It’s not nearly as bad as I thought. It always feels fair… relatively. 

[nobleflame]

7 hours ago, FEZ_GG said:

Congratulations on clearing Maelstrom!  How much have you been saving in Sunlust, if at all?

I've been UV-maxing difficult WADs to build up my skill toward Sunlust, so I'll be in your position soon.  I just got done with Hell Revealed and Alien Vendetta, and currently on Plutonia 2, before moving on to Scythe 2 and finally Sunlust.

No saves. Pistol start. UV MAX.

[aika]

Congrats on beating Maelstrom and gl with the final two maps, particularly God Machine :)

 

[Nefelibeta]

Congrats! Doing these maps saveless is one hell of an achievement. You should probably upload the demo files to a website just to show your balls. :)

[nobleflame]

5 hours ago, Nefelibeta said:

Congrats! Doing these maps saveless is one hell of an achievement. You should probably upload the demo files to a website just to show your balls. :)

I haven't recorded demos sadly. I'm doing it just for me. 

[Jacek Bourne]

On 5/6/2022 at 7:38 PM, BigMetalhead said:

That sounds like hell lol. Sunlust on UV sounds like a massive pain festival

There’s a world of difference between pain and frustration. This would be the latter. It can sometimes be frustrating however it is far from painful.

[BigMetalhead]

4 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

There’s a world of difference between pain and frustration. This would be the latter. It can sometimes be frustrating however it is far from painful.

I think I kinda get it.

 

I'm still not too good at Doom, so I'm struggling with Going Down on UV pistol-start with no saves. It's frustrating, but it's something I can still manage.

 

I also tried out Italo Doom because I was curious. I tried save-scumming but I still failed to go past Map 1. It's not even frustrating at that point; I just wanted to die.

[Jacek Bourne]

10 minutes ago, BigMetalhead said:

I think I kinda get it.

 

I'm still not too good at Doom, so I'm struggling with Going Down on UV pistol-start with no saves. It's frustrating, but it's something I can still manage.

 

I also tried out Italo Doom because I was curious. I tried save-scumming but I still failed to go past Map 1. It's not even frustrating at that point; I just wanted to die.

If you play something significantly above your skill level then you will almost undoubtedly not enjoy it. If you need to save scum a fight then it is definitely above your skill level as it almost certainly wasn’t designed to be save scummed through.

[BigMetalhead]

6 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

If you play something significantly above your skill level then you will almost undoubtedly not enjoy it. If you need to save scum a fight then it is definitely above your skill level as it almost certainly wasn’t designed to be save scummed through.

Oh, yeah I know lol. I knew from the get go Italo Doom was gonna be an impossibility for me. I just wanted to see just what it was like before I immediately dropped it lmao.

[nobleflame]

19 hours ago, Jacek Bourne said:

There’s a world of difference between pain and frustration. This would be the latter. It can sometimes be frustrating however it is far from painful.

True, although I never feel that Sunlust maps are unfair. 

 

All of the fights are interesting and most of the maps are relatively short (under 15 mins). For me, if I die during a run it's usually my fault. 

 

Map 29 is kicking my arse at the moment, but since the whole level only takes around 15 mins I don't really mind and it rarely gets frustrating. I'll get it soon too because I'm gradually making progress.

 

I highly recommend doing practice runs with saves before attempting UV Max saveless runs. I keep going over the difficult fights to get them relatively consistent before going for a saveless.  

[ImproversGaming]

Funny what we find frustrating or painful or fun. The most times I have had to play a map to complete it is around 30 to 40. Except for one - E2M4 from Base Ganymede. It is a Tyson level and I had never punched anything. Took me 100 runs to make it through and I loved it - such a different and fun challenge. Also finished it again in one of my very next runs. If you told me beforehand that it would take 100 runs I would never have guessed it would also be fun.

[nobleflame]

Go Fuck Yourself is done. Took a while because of the messy start! 

 

God Machine is next. Good lord, I'm not looking forward to this one!

[aika]

Good luck with God Machine :) It's a really, really cool map, but stressful to run saveless

Spoiler

I died in the final archvile pyramid not once but twice, at something like 57 minutes in

[nobleflame]

9 minutes ago, aika said:

Good luck with God Machine :) It's a really, really cool map, but stressful to run saveless

  Hide contents

I died in the final archvile pyramid not once but twice, at something like 57 minutes in

Got through to the final fight on my second try. So far, it's definitely not as tough as some of the other maps in Sunlust - it's just very long and it hurts when you die at 45+ minutes in. 

 

I think I've got the archvile pyramid down, but the nerves, man; the nerves!  

[nobleflame]

God Machine Write Up

 

This is going to be a long one.

 

Introduction

Why did I start this journey? Having watched Decino arduously push through it a couple of years ago, single-segmenting Sunlust has always been on my mind. The trouble is, was I good enough? I’ve played through the WAD before and always found certain sections damn near impossible without pre-fight saves. The notion of not dying once during the later maps was daunting and deterred me until recently. 

 

Over the last year I’ve been getting into challenging WADs and found that I could indeed single segment UVMAX difficult levels. BTSX, Valiant, Eviternity, Ancient Aliens, all finished; now it was time to step up. I thought I’d get to about mid-way through Sunlust before giving up, but around map 20 I decided to persevere. Getting through map 24 and 28 gave me the valour to conquer God Machine. 

 

Atmosphere

Two words come to mind when I think about God Machine: oppressive and sombre. The grandiosity and sheer scale of the structures that make up the architecture show off all of Ribbix and Dannebubinga’s abominable designs. You feel a heady weight of awe pressing down on you as the largest structures loom over, towering and brutal. The music, too, adds to the overwhelming sadness that permeates every facet of the level - something bad has happened here, a corruption that needs cleansing. And yet, among the dripping, thick brown ooze, regularly perforated by perpetually revolving yellow lights, there is an intoxicating feeling, something that keeps you willing to return for another attempt. Without this atmosphere, it would be difficult to keep returning to God Machine after every inevitable death.

 

Design

The level itself is a showcase for what Sunlust is. It features a veritable toolbox of tricks and traps. Each encounter is unique and displays Ribbiks and Dannebubinga’s brilliance in innovation and style. The opening is relatively quiet until you activate the resurrection machine, then it’s a mix of small deathly devices, exploration and large open arenas. At times it feels like an entire episode of fights rather than a single level. At any time something can go wrong, but, contrary to popular belief, most fights do not lean too heavily on RNG. In essence, God Machine is a fitting summary to what Sunlust truly is - a series of excellently designed fights in an abstract and beautiful setting.

 

Challenge

Personally, the challenge of God Machine comes from its length. All fights have a strategy and no one fight is more difficult than fights in some of the other later maps in Sunlust. I was combating nerves and fatigue alongside the actual fights, which only compounds God Machine’s difficulty. Practice is key here. And patience. 

 

Fight Break Down walkthrough [spoilers]

Spoiler

 

Getting the rocket launcher

Not too challenging, just hit the archie as soon as possible and keep the chaingunners away from the resurrection pillars. Circle around the revs and barons and keep pumping rockets, but watch out for light decorations that can block you. I tend to fire rockets until the second wave, then run through the pillars at the back of the area and circle; just don’t get trapped!

 

Super shotgun, infighting, RNGeesus

Up the lift, punch out the caged archie with your berzerk and bloodshot eyes. Edge forward to raise the arachnotrons and make use of those resurrected chainguns. Once the two archies on the platform have been blown to bits, grab the SSG.

 

Now, the only RNG-reliant fight in the level. Deaths aren’t too painful here because you’re only 5 or 6 minutes in. Grab the ammo / megasphere (if you need it) and four archies and a cyber will pop - I like to SSG the cyber to encourage him to fight, because if he doesn’t you’ll be blown to oblivion. If he hits the archie cluster, watch the fireworks and then SSG the cyber. Easy.

 

Yellow key, trapped hell nobles, flying bastards

Aside from resurrection pillars (and pinkie crushers), God Machine’s weirdness extends to stuck hell nobles: barons sit inside knights beside the yellow key. Grabbing it unlocks cacos and pain elementals who will quickly flood the platform with their fiery children if they’re not taken care of first. Lots of face rockets here, so switch the the SSG when they’re in range and blast away. 

The second phase involves revs and sniping mancs that need to inflight with a roaming cyberdemon. Grab a rad suit, jump down into the sludge and encourage a rocket / fireball party. Luckily, two teleporters allow you to get up top and escape stray projectiles. 

 

Cyber telefrag dance

I love this fight. Use the switches to telefrag the six cybers. The level’s only secret fight sees one cyber released at a time on a timer; the final two cybers are released at the same time - just move them onto the platform and blow them to bits. No guns required. 

 

It can go wrong very quickly if the cybers decide to dawdle or feel particularly trigger-happy. As they’re on a timer, you can rapidly have 6 cybers marching and blasting in a very small space. In case of this, circle, circle, circle and pray that your aim in hitting switches is accurate… You’ll probably die if this happens though.

 

The cathedral fight

The most difficult fight in the level. A giant cathedral, high aloft, overlooking the previously explored. Three megaspheres line the aisle leading up to a teleporter to the BFG; grabbing the BFG is easy; getting it out though… 

 

Running down the main aisle reveals the madness: regiments of imps, a plague of hell nobles and two cybers swamp the unholy nave, while three cybers snipe from high up platforms and dancing revenants pummell you from the upper galleries. Truly a horrendous encounter with the damned in this ecclesiastical nightmare. 

 

First port of call is to hit the stationary archie with a BFG; then smash through the imps to clear space. Now it’s all in the hands of the demonic Gods who’ve long since left this place. Watch out for the cybers and keep moving. When things are a little clearer, use the secret steps up to the rev galleries and hit the switch to frag the turret cybers. Then it’s just the clear up. Oh wait, which demon loves corpses? Pressing the switch below the rev galleries releases five archives. Joy.  

 

The plasma gun fight 

Such a breather compared to the previous. Grab plasma gun. Spray down resurrected chaingunners. BFG cacodemons. ‘Nuff said. 

 

Main arena and laborious U shapes

Following a series of cramped fights, you’d think I’d be all up for a large open space with lots of infighting potential. This is a battle of attrition. Stay the hell away from the 16 turret archies that line the arena - you get close and your gibbs will be touching the sky. More on how to deal with them later…

 

The plan is to blast through the arachnotrons and keep a strict U shape going to encourage the mancs to infight with the wall of revs. Patience is key. Use a megasphere if you need, but try to save at least one. 

 

The clear up involves tapping the archvile clusters at the rear of the arena and rocketing the imps that sit atop the perimeter walls.  

 

Hell noble L arena 

This gave me a lot of trouble. It relies on hell nobles staying close to the interior of the L shaped corridor - if they bunch up too much your BFG won’t save you. Pepper the barons with rockets, sticking close to the walls. When it’s time, run through the opening and around the outside of the cluster to the opposite end of the L, spraying green plasma as you go. The first two passes are the worst. Just don’t get penned in.

 

Caged rev arena

Push switch. Slap one of the revs pens with BFG. Hide behind pillar. Peekaboo shoot rockets, two at a time, until the other pen is empty. Not too tough, but stacked up 80 damage missiles can ruin your day.

 

Stacked up archies

The moment that opens the switch to the final fight. The only safe way to do this is to wake up archies a few at a time and rocket from a distance, taking cover when the yellow flames appear. Running in with your BFG might work, but your hands are shaking and sweaty and you’re 40 minutes in. Balls of steel or hiding like a coward. I won’t judge you if you take the latter.  

 

Final fight

We’re here. Finally. I lost two runs to this fight over 50 minutes in. In my winning run, I went down to 1%. The moment that tests your mettle to the limit. 

 

Make a rotation around the centre of the arena to wake up everything and initiate the slaughter. Then hide in one of the corners near the rear of one of the side arenas. Wait, wait, wait and watch the parliament of pain elementals unleash their offspring in all directions. Wait, wait, wait, then run. Run to the switch near the front of the arena where you first appeared. Hit it to crush the turret archies who’ve been limiting our movement since the start. 

 

Then pray you don’t get zapped by the roaming archviles and make use of the two megaspheres that sit on the flanks. Hope the lost soul chip damage is infrequent and hope that you can break through.

 

Kill the God Machine

The final moment involves grabbing an essential megasphere. Walls will start dropping to reveal two archviles at a time, all on a timer. Make sure your BFG is full and your tracers are accurate. It’s a last minute sick joke that can get nasty quickly. What a way to end Sunlust’s magnum opus. 

 

 

Final Thoughts

This is it, done, finished, it’s finally over. 

 

Thanks for reading. I truly loved this map set and think it’s one of the best WADs in existence. Thank you Ribbiks and Dannebubinga for ruining my days and kicking my arse time and time again. It was always a pleasure!

Edited May 19, 2022 by nobleflame

[ImproversGaming]

Wow, this is an impressive achievement! Well done. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I wonder what you might take on next...

[Jacek Bourne]

What mapset do you plan to do next?

If you haven’t already decided then I have some recommendations.

[nobleflame]

30 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

What mapset do you plan to do next?

If you haven’t already decided then I have some recommendations.

Please go ahead! 

[nobleflame]

1 hour ago, ImproversGaming said:

Wow, this is an impressive achievement! Well done. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I wonder what you might take on next...

Thanks, man. You’ll get it soon too :)

[Nefelibeta]

I already had a feeling that Jacek will recommend some fucked up wads.