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Mr. Freeze

The ongoing cryptocurrency crash

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55 minutes ago, RDETalus said:

This one was a genuine project, and as a result, it attracted a ton of people who put their savings into it as an investment.
  

 

I just read up on it, and TBH, the entire outline of how Luna was supposed to work just screamed "guaranteed to fail" to me. It was a house of cards that didn't even pretend to be more than that. I'll never understand how stupid one must be to put all eggs into this one basket and risking to lose everything.

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Checked some crypto-related subreddits recently. Lots of pinned suicide hotlines at the top. Crazy shit

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On 5/16/2022 at 12:37 AM, Graf Zahl said:

 

I'll never understand how stupid one must be to put all eggs into this one basket and risking to lose everything.

Their mentality is that they are going "TO THE MOON!" because all the stuff they saw perpetuated that message.

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The crash has gotten even worse, Celsius Network has stopped all customers from withdrawing their funds.

 

Basically, imagine if you put your money in a bank, expect the bank was run by morons who over leveraged your money and gambled it all away and they can’t pay you back anymore.


"Line goes down" is bad enough, but in this case, all your money is probably just gone. This one's gonna suck personally because my dad had put his crypto into the Celsius Network. Seems like everyone forgot the golden rule of investing: "Never invest more than you can afford to lose."

Edited by RDETalus

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3 minutes ago, RDETalus said:

The crash has gotten even worse, Celsius Network has stopped all customers from withdrawing their funds.

 

Basically, imagine if you put your money in a bank, expect the bank was run by morons who over leveraged your money and gambled it all away and they can’t pay you back anymore.

This happens with traditional banking systems too.

 

When Greece had it's economic crash, banks prevented people from withdrawing money as they used some of it to pay off debts.  Companies dealing with crypto are not immune to this.

 

The whole point of crypto was not to 'get rich quick' but to circumvent the financial system to gain independence.  Naturally, the programmer who did bitcoin failed to understand that this would never ever work in real life.

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51 minutes ago, Gibbon said:

This happens with traditional banking systems too.

True, but crypto can possibly be worse in these events because the government can't / won't save you. There's no regulation or insurance.

 

My dad thought he was safe because he only ever held Bitcoin; he didn't screw around with all those other weird coins that end up failing or becoming scams. However, he made the mistake of keeping his Bitcoin on the Celsius Network and the people running that were apparently deep into the weird coins. A bit of a shame too because he bought most of his bitcoins when they were dirt cheap years ago.

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Putting your Bitcoin on a failing 3rd party website to avoid losing your money on shitcoins is like moving to the last car on a burning train only to realize it's loaded with fireworks and gasoline. 

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6 minutes ago, RDETalus said:

True, but crypto can possibly be worse in these events because the government can't / won't save you. There's no regulation or insurance.

 

My dad thought he was safe because he only ever held Bitcoin; he didn't screw around with all those other weird coins that end up failing or becoming scams. However, he made the mistake of keeping his Bitcoin on the Celsius Network and the people running that were apparently deep into the weird coins. A bit of a shame too because he bought most of his bitcoins when they were dirt cheap years ago.

This is what happens when folks who don't really understand what they are doing, deal with money.

 

Best place for long term storage is a cold wallet, basically a paper wallet.  You'd also want at least one other coin to hedge against in-case one falls too much, preserving some of your money in a more stable coin.

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Those scammers on Instagram hack people's accounts saying This Bs here, "OMG Guys i just got $10000 dollars from bitcoin mining by turning $15 to $10000, all you gotta do is dm my coach @Notarealaccountfxtrader hit her up now to get paid! @Notarealaccountfxtrader @Notarealaccountfxtrader @Notarealaccountfxtrader" yeah all they do is hack your Instagram account and steal it it happened to my Horror fan friends TWICE! on Instagram man i wish Instagram had more better moderation to ban those hacking fraud scammers posing as forex traders who are girls.

Edited by ElmStreetSlasher1984

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The golden rule of investment: Never put all the eggs into one basket. If you do that, if that investment fails, you are out of money. The best approach is to spread your money as wide as possible, into different kinds of investment, so if one fails, you still have the rest of it. Oh, and never *ever* put more than maybe 10% into such highly speculative stuff as cryptocurrencies!

 

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The basic rule of investment is that the money can be lost. The promised return is there to compensate for the risk. The higher the risk, the higher the promised return. From there, you can generate two corollaries.

  1. Diversify your investment. Not just several competing investment in the same field, but several completely different investments in completely different fields.
  2. If a promised return is too good to be true, it is too good to be true. You're being scammed.

Now it's true that for some types of scam, like pyramid schemes, you can still make a profit, if you are one of the early birds and you cash out early, before the pyramid starts to crumble. Doesn't mean that it's safe -- or ethical.

 

It was obvious to anyone who has not been poisoned by techbro libertarianism that cryptocurrencies were an unsustainable proposal, for many reasons. Don't hope that by "hodling" until the pyramid starts getting built again you will eventually be vindicated and recoup your losses.

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5 hours ago, RDETalus said:

Basically, imagine if you put your money in a bank, expect the bank was run by morons who over leveraged your money and gambled it all away and they can’t pay you back anymore.

This was always going to happen to people who "invested" in cryptocurrencies.

 

It's rather worse than your bank example. With a bank there's at least a rational business model backing it. Sure, they don't have all their assets immediately available at any given time since they're tied up in Investments. But they do at least own those investments and they've done some degree of due diligence to ensure they get their money back.

 

There's nothing like that with cryptocurrencies. All you're doing is buying a token and hoping it goes up. Your ability to cash out is limited to the demand from other people trying to buy in. In that respect it's pretty much identical to a Ponzi scheme. It's a shame that the scheme has to collapse for people to start realising this. It's been disappointing to see how many otherwise smart people have been taken in by the promises of getting rich quick 

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4 hours ago, ElmStreetSlasher1984 said:

Those scammers on Instagram hack people's accounts saying This Bs here, "OMG Guys i just got $10000 dollars from bitcoin mining by turning $15 to $10000, all you gotta do is dm my coach @Notarealaccountfxtrader hit her up now to get paid! @Notarealaccountfxtrader @Notarealaccountfxtrader @Notarealaccountfxtrader" yeah all they do is hack your Instagram account and steal it it happened to my Horror fan friends TWICE! on Instagram man i wish Instagram had more better moderation to ban those hacking fraud scammers posing as forex traders who are girls.

The problem in this case isn't Instagram's moderation so much as people not having the tiniest level of common sense required to recognize such an obvious scam. Anyone ignorant enough to believe that some random asshole on Instagram is going to give them free money should have their account hacked, because they too dumb to be on the internet.

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The worst part of crypto cratering is that I can't even get a refurbished GPU for cheap, because mining makes the card run at 100% capacity which greatly diminishes its lifespan. Assholes.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Freeze said:

The worst part of crypto cratering is that I can't even get a refurbished GPU for cheap, because mining makes the card run at 100% capacity which greatly diminishes its lifespan. Assholes.

 

On the bright side, at least new GPUs might now have a chance of being in-stock and somewhat affordable again.

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I think the technology itself has promise, and its environmental effects perhaps stretched at least a tad, especially when paired with newer approaches that significantly cut on computations spent, such as Proof-of-Stake verification (as opposed to the conventional Proof-of-Work).

 

Sadly, the kind of people who flock to it the most only care about speculation, and most of its portrayal in contemporaneous popular media just worsens that, treating it as a "high-risk, high-reward investment". That kind of thing gives an inveterate bad image to the tech, and hampers progress in things like, businesses accepting cryptocurrency in exchange for goods and services, so that the currency can be valued more and more on its actual buying power, and less on bigger fool scheme-esque speculation.

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1 hour ago, wallabra said:

Sadly, the kind of people who flock to it the most only care about speculation, and most of its portrayal in contemporaneous popular media just worsens that, treating it as a "high-risk, high-reward investment". That kind of thing gives an inveterate bad image to the tech, and hampers progress in things like, businesses accepting cryptocurrency in exchange for goods and services, so that the currency can be valued more and more on its actual buying power, and less on bigger fool scheme-esque speculation.

 

And nothing about this will ever change. As real-life "currency" the entire concept is ill suited - its main attraction is for conducting shady business outside the banking system and for people with a deep distrust of the establishment. These things mean it will never fulfill its promise.

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4 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

And nothing about this will ever change. As real-life "currency" the entire concept is ill suited - its main attraction is for conducting shady business outside the banking system and for people with a deep distrust of the establishment. These things mean it will never fulfill its promise.

Exactly this.  Unfortunately some people will still be suckered into it by those YouTubers who like to appear as if they know what they are talking about when half of them are just glorified financial newbies who only sound smart because they don't have to be regulated or understand financial instruments and markets.

 

Basically, if you want to play with it, dump a few euro's or bucks and play around.  But don't use it for any 'serious' stuff, because 90 percent of the time, you'll get burned.

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Major exchange Voyager temporarily (lel) pauses withdrawals.

 

Quote

Customer explicitly understands and acknowledges that the treatment of Customer Cryptocurrency in the event of a Customer, Voyager, or Custodian insolvency proceeding is unsettled, not guaranteed, and may result in a number of outcomes that are impossible to predict, including but not limited to Customer being treated as an unsecured creditor and/or the total loss of all Customer Cryptocurrency.

 

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I still mine Ethereum on my GPU, same as I did a year ago.

It's no longer "profitable" to do so, but that assumes that you are selling it as you earn it. I'm keeping it in Ethereum until it goes back up again, a sort of rainy day fund if you will.

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On 6/13/2022 at 8:37 AM, Gibbon said:

This happens with traditional banking systems too.

 

When Greece had it's economic crash, banks prevented people from withdrawing money as they used some of it to pay off debts.  Companies dealing with crypto are not immune to this.

 

The whole point of crypto was not to 'get rich quick' but to circumvent the financial system to gain independence.  Naturally, the programmer who did bitcoin failed to understand that this would never ever work in real life.

 

In Germany Banks have to hold back a certain amount of Money to garanty it to their Customers.

I am not sure if this is a National or EU wide Thing.

 

To the Topic:

The Crypto Currencies just go Hand in Hand with the normal Buisness Cycle.

In Economics Class in School we've learned that it happens every four years to go down and every eight will be a big one.

 

Master.jpg

 

Stuff like War multiplies the Effect.

That shows us some Stuff:

Crypto Currencies are very dependend on the normal Buisness Cycle and Currencies, they are truly for Speculations and they crash harder than other Stuff.

 

They don't serve well as Currencies, they aren't independed and you have more Risks.

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On 7/7/2022 at 5:58 PM, Azuris said:

To the Topic:

The Crypto Currencies just go Hand in Hand with the normal Buisness Cycle.

In Economics Class in School we've learned that it happens every four years to go down and every eight will be a big one.

But it’s not the curve for Ponzi pyramids.

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I think the whole currency idea can be scrapped.

 

Did you know that, before currency, economies didn't rely on barter, but on gifts? And there are many intentional communities out there trying to replicate that.

 

Of course, it would be a very long-term ideal to believe in an anarcho-communist society with a gift economy, where a few people work industrialized hydroponics facilities, with low-labour maintenance, to feed entire neighbourhoods; not expecting wages in return, but because it's what they're interested in, and they get to enjoy the fruits of the labour just as everyone else, just as they get to enjoy the fruits of the labours of others without anything in return expected from them.

 

But ideals aren't endgoals. They're compasses. They guide your everyday decisions. :)

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On 7/10/2022 at 4:41 PM, wallabra said:

...just as they get to enjoy the fruits of the labours of others without anything in return expected from them.

 

Anarcho-communists have perfected this part; shame about the rest.

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