My first two wads

[Ani]

Here are two wads I showcased on my YT channel. I just recently started making maps and I gotta say, it's really fun! I tweaked them a bit earlier today for some tiny improvements. In these two maps are UDMF formatted. What special about these maps is that they are recreations of a few levels from the 2002 Spider-Man game. While you can't exactly do everything a spider can, it's interesting to me to see levels from a different game be altered in the style of another game. I love recreating things and adding a small spin on them. Here you need Doom II and GZDoom to run on these wads. But hopefully you guys enjoy!

 

Ani's first wads.zip

Edited May 23, 2022 by Ani

[Peccatum Mihzamiz]

 

[Ani]

Alright thanks. Lemme fix my post a bit.

[Delisk]

 

I can see you tried more advanced techniques 3d floor, scripting, ect. Sadly you seem to be missing in the basics.

 

The whole map fell more like you trying what you can do in the editor compared to really designing a map.

 

You have a lot of misaligned textures, and most of your texture choice really do not work well with each others giving a incoherent felling to you map design.

 

I do hope you will improve and make great maps in the future, but this one should not have been shared.

[Obsidian]

1 hour ago, Delisk said:

I do hope you will improve and make great maps in the future, but this one should not have been shared.

 

The irony in this statement is that Ani might have deprived themselves of feedback if they'd kept their work to themselves, which would probably inhibit their ability to improve. We've all been at this stage in our mapping journey and it's important to bear that in mind when giving feedback: ask yourself if you'd appreciate getting feedback like this when you were at the same stage as them. Would you keep mapping if this was one of your first responses? Or would you drop mapping like a sack of depleted uranium potatoes?

 

Just something to think about.

[Thelokk]

3 minutes ago, Obsidian said:

 

The irony in this statement is that Ani might have deprived themselves of feedback if they'd kept their work to themselves, which would probably inhibit their ability to improve. We've all been at this stage in our mapping journey and it's important to bear that in mind when giving feedback: ask yourself if you'd appreciate getting feedback like this when you were at the same stage as them. Would you keep mapping if this was one of your first responses? Or would you drop mapping like a sack of depleted uranium potatoes?

 

Just something to think about.

 

Not every single practice piece needs to be shared.

 

Maps themselves are very basic but I've seen and played worse from newbies. I suggest focusing more on basics such as layout and texturing over UDMF features, those can be baked in once the basic building blocks are there. 

[Bobby :D]

57 minutes ago, Thelokk said:

 

Not every single practice piece needs to be shared.

 

The problem is that without sharing the only way to learn is from intuition that may or may not be present with your current knowledge of design. Practice has little function without learning.

[Egg Boy]

2 minutes ago, Bobby "J said:

The problem is that without sharing the only way to learn is from intuition that may or may not be present with your current knowledge of design. Practice has little function without learning.

completely agree, this looks like it was made with a good amount of effort. I don't think that should go to waste. The mapper should be able to learn from this with external feedback. Anywho, since I'm here I'm gonna check it out, I'll be back in a bit with what I think.

[baja blast rd.]

This map actually attempts to use the UDMF features towards creative ends (the 3D floor that intersects with the border cutoff of the skin texture, as if it's a spatial extension of it, is actually neat tbh). It also is pretty far from the "hey look, a STARTAN box that has a player start and exit, I can make a map!"-style prototype I expected from the commentary. 

 

Arguing that this map shouldn't have been posted is the dumbest thing I've seen on Doomworld in a while*, which is saying a lot. This is not a debate. To keep it short: if you disagree you're wrong and taking a vacation. You don't decide what people can post. Back to the actual map feedback thanks.  

 

 

*Actually nevermind I just remembered one particular recently helled thread. The second-dumbest*

[Egg Boy]

Lets start with Oscorp. So, due to the namesake, I assume this is some sort of replica of the building from Spider-Man. It very much felt like a real building that could exist, and had a particular attention to sector lighting that I don't usually see in beginners' work. That being said, I believe the realism gets in the way of gameplay a bit. For instance, there is a bit too much symmetry, causing specifically the office area to be confusing to navigate and simultaneously leading to repetitive gameplay. If you're going to use architectural symmetry I would focus on making each side unique and easy to differentiate via textures and altered geometry. Another major issue I'd recommend resolving is the sparse monster usage. This would not be an issue if the map was a tad more atmospheric, but as it stands, the combat is dry and lacks any sort of forethought. Everything is directly in front of the player. Towards the end, things get a bit more interesting with the Mastermind and Mancubus that can infight. The map could be improved a great deal by putting monsters in places they can snipe the player, or unleashing some after a key. You don't have to do anything too fancy, but keeping the player occupied with monsters that could be anywhere would be a welcome change. The last encounter however, is a death sentence, at least it was for me, who had no ammo at that point (guess I ran out of ammo for my web-shooters). Not sure if I missed ammo, but I would recommend putting some in that last room to deal with the revenant horde.

 

Now, you had me thinking about Spider-Man before, but Warehouse Hunt was a blast from the past. As soon as I saw that garage door, I recognized it. This appears to be a recreation of the level of the same name from the video game adaptation of the first Raimi film. The fact I recognized the locale is definitely an achievement, especially with the use of stock textures. Generally, the combat is much better as well, attempts at set ups and a few decent traps. Huge improvement over the first. One thing I neglected to mention in the last map is the lack of key markers. If you need a key to activate a door, ALWAYS mark it with DOORRED, DOORBLU, or DOORYEL so the player can gleam what it is at a distance. Sticking on the keys for a second, you should improve how you set up keys. In the past two maps, you get a key before you see the door, or sometimes immediately after you see the door, its always good practice to show the player one or the other early in the map (preferably the door) so that they have some sort of goal, without something like this the layout can feel more like a maze than an interconnected set of corridors and encounters. I also want to mention the secret at the end of the map, its really easy to trigger the teleport linedef when evading enemies, a good fix would be to put it in the corner of the room and use the GATE1 flat to denote its placement. Other than that, this one's a vast improvement over the first, and honestly this isn't shabby at all for your first and second maps, thanks for sharing.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

3 hours ago, Delisk said:

I do hope you will improve and make great maps in the future, but this one should not have been shared.

Oh please, this doesn't even come close to being that dire, and that's just going by the screenshots. And I'm notorious for saying "you should have kept this to yourself". But I only tell that to people who do things like begging for attention by saying "it sucks please don't play it" and people who upload STARTAN boxes with 2000 cyberdemons (those two things often go hand-in-hand). This doesn't even come close to that, and I don't understand why you think you have the authority to tell a new mapper who obviously put a decent amount of time and effort into their project that they shouldn't share it. They also formatted their post well enough, with screenshots and source port info.

[Delisk]

I decided to give your second map a chance and I can already see improvement's.

 

 

 

 

The good

Unlike you first map this one fell like a cohesive idea rather than a bunch of random rooms.

The texture work is better, the choice of texture now fit the theme of the map.

I like the idea of having escape the map in the same way went in with new monster on the way is a good one. I did saw it's actually of ac copy of the area.

 

The bad

You still have some strange texture alignment problem

I noticed you door track are no using the "lower unpegged" setting

You are no using any cue to indicate a door needs a key.

The first section (to get the red key) is kinda confusing.

A lot of section fell kinda plain, try using wall inset and more creative flooring/ceiling to add details. This is time consuming but it make such a difference.

 

Keep on mapping

 

[Sammy J]

If these are your first 2 maps then you have some serious talent. There's a lot of design features you've figured out in your build time that advanced mappers still haven't figured out to this day. You've clearly tested the entirety of the game-play & created an interesting and completeable adventure in your first maps, that deserves congratulations in my opinion!

 

You've got a good grasp of most of the techniques & skills required to make some very interesting material. My advice would be to create a small adventure of your own before making your next map & build it using the oldest Doom format available. This will give you a bit more time to work on the texturing & environmental effects like varying floor & ceiling height for aesthetics. Easy to do as you build your way through a level because the older formats have less features. I recommend checking out John Romero's rules of level design, they're still the most widely used & accepted methods because they look realistic & nobody can change that =P

You've definitely got the basics more than covered & you'd make some great levels in the future. Just don't overwhelm yourself with map size & multi-functionality, designing a good flowing adventure creates the best experiences and you've shown that you do it in your level design.

 

Everything can be refined, these are great exactly as they are. Very good quality for first maps ever made.

[Ani]

21 hours ago, Egg Boy said:

I appreciate your feedback on my map! I'm even more glad you acknowledged what I was recreating in Warehouse Hunt. Oscorp is the same sorta thing if you played the original game further more. I'll keep in mind to make an indication or a sign that there is a key you you need to pick up. This is really new to me and I can see there is a debate going on in this thread whether I should've shared this or not. Maybe if I combine those two and my upcoming maps into a megawad then yeah maybe it would've been a better time to share. I did have a few testers of mine on Discord but they didn't have the same amount of critique as everyone here, not that I'm complaining. I'll try and keep these tips in mind and give the Romero video a look. I got two more maps in the works. The sewers and the central park zoo level that was only exclusive to the OG Xbox. For the sewers I'm making it a bit more challenging than what I did before. You'll see once I record a video of the map on my channel. I tend to love recreating stuff. Just to see what it would look like if it was formatted differently and it might catch a spark in someone's nostalgia or recognition when I share them to others. Feel free to check out my videos on these maps in case you missed any secrets or other things!

 

[Sammy J]

There's no debate whether or not you should have posted it, you definitely should have! I've seen plenty of maps since the 90's and these are better than half of them.

[Ani]

21 hours ago, Sambo J said:

Thanks a lot man! After seeing a a small bit of people saying whether I should've shared this or not made me have this thought that maybe I should've waited till I released a megawad containing the two maps and my further upcoming ones. Is that something I should do or should I save the megawad idea for another time? I would love to see who agrees more on. As for the old Doom format, I wouldn't mind so much if it didn't prohibit my ability to make 3D floors and given the Spidey maps I'm remaking, I kinda have to use the UDMF format to get exact results I want. But all and all, I'm happy to see some satisfied players! If ya'll are happy, then I'm happy!

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Ani

[Ani]

On 5/23/2022 at 4:23 PM, Obsidian said:

You made a really fair point. How does anyone expect me to improve if I don't share my public art? It's no longer public art if it's kept privately. Not to mention, it would be a waste of memory, storage and time if not for uploading them. Criticism is very well valid however. It's just that one statement that I don't agree with when it comes to sharing your piece. It's a matter of choice in my opinion.

 

[Sammy J]

23 hours ago, Ani said:

maybe I should've waited till I released a megawad containing the two maps and my further upcoming ones. Is that something I should do or should I save the megawad idea for another time?

 

There's always people who expect releases to be 100% done & dusted, but that's not always what this forum is about. There are a lot of people here with a vast amount of knowledge that can help people to maximize the potential of their projects. For new levels it's best to get them finished in your eyes, then upload for game testers asking for any of their recommendations for changes & refinements. It makes the timing of your map upload irrelevant to any scrutiny & allow time to address any concerns people may have. For first maps this doesn't really matter very much, but if you're dedicating a lot of time to a megawad it will help a lot to get community input along the way to assist in making it pleasing to the masses. Then save the perfected maps for your megawad release.

 

You've pretty much done this already, these forums are generally here to help people. The only other forum (which you probably don't need) is the editing questions one. You're on the right track, just keep doing what you do & have fun.

[Ani]

3 hours ago, Sambo J said:

Oh? Really? Alright then. I could use some testers however to see what I can fix before I release my upcoming maps later however. Because I can be a perfectionist sometimes. Thanks again!

 

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

I kinda love how varied first maps people make are. Sometimes there are few square rooms, and hallways. Sometimes it's a super-detailed vision. They're both rough because that's what beginnings are inherently like. No great artist was great from the get-go. It takes time, and effort. Looking forward to a map you make on your own from start to finish. The only advice I can give is to make maps. Make lots of them, listen to feedback, and aim for the next map better than the previous. Welcome to Doom mapping, hope you'll have a pleasant ride.

[Ani]

Hey ya'll, I took a look at some of your guys' critiques on my two maps and gave them a bit of a clean up. Fixed the misaligning textures, made an indicator for the keys as well as handled the lower unpegged stuff with the doors. If ya'll wanna give the updated wads a try lemme know! Hopefully I didn't missed out anything else!