I don't enjoy Doom anymore.

[MFG38]

Now that I've caught your attention with my unapologetically clickbaity thread title, allow me to explain.

 

I've played Doom for almost 15 years, and in that time, I've played through almost every official Doom game at least once, as well as hundreds, if not thousands, of user-created wads. The latest of them was Hell Revealed 2, which I just finished. While I did enjoy some of it, a lot of it especially towards the end was frustrating to the point where I wanted to be done with it ASAP and unashamedly resorted to cheats to get past some parts. MAP28 and MAP29 stood out as particularly unenjoyable maps, the former with its switch hunt design tendency and the latter with its borderline unfair gameplay, especially when it introduced hitscanners in open areas with no cover whatsoever. I could talk a whole lot more about the problems that Hell Revealed 2 has, but I'll save the space.

 

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make with this thread is that my preferences in level design have become extremely specific over the years. Of course, they've been shaped by all the wads I've played, but how specific those preferences are has become a bit of a problem. Reason being that they've become so specific that I lose almost any and all enjoyment of a map if its design shows the slightest hint of deviating from them. If I press a switch and can't immediately see what it did and where, my enjoyment decreases. If I have to somehow deal with 50 hitscanners in an open area with no cover, my enjoyment decreases. If I'm forced to pick up an entire medikit at 96% health because it's smack-dab in the middle of a 64-wide corridor, my enjoyment decreases. If a key or switch mandatory for progression is behind an unmarked secret wall, my enjoyment decreases.

 

As long as those design tropes occur in rare and isolated instances, I can put up with them, but have them occur enough times in a single map and I start to lose my temper. Thankfully level design philosophies have changed over the past 20 years and those level design annoyances are at least a lot less common. That said, not every Doom wad was made in the past 20 years. Every time I run into a level design trope I don't agree with (or downright loathe), my enjoyment of a particular wad decreases slightly. And it honestly shocks me how badly so many pre-2010s wads hold up when it comes to their level design because of how frequently they employ those tropes.

 

Am I the only one who feels this way?

[OniriA]

Quote

I don't enjoy Doom anymore.

 

The only way I can answer that is to not play Doom anymore and look for something else that you enjoy playing more.

[Rudolph]

No, you are not alone. I gave up on quite a few megawads recently because I just did not like their level design.

 

I guess the morale of the story is that you should not pressure yourself into playing games you do not enjoy, especially if you are neither expected to nor paid to. Classic Doom is for the most part free to play nowadays, so you do not have to worry about sunk costs.

 

You might also want to check out some gameplay mods that address the issues you are experiencing, e.g. by removing hitscanners or replacing their attacks with projectile ones, preventing you from wasting supplies or making you have to manually pick items and so on.

[Frost-Core]

Quote

I don't enjoy Doom anymore.

Wolfenstien 3-D It is!

[tsathoggua]

It sounds like you just shouldn't play older WADs (and possibly not newer WADs with an old school sensibility) since they're more likely to do the stuff you hate. It's not like there's a dearth of newer WADs based on more modern design principles to play.

[Mr Masker]

There are plently of games that I love and show my praises towards, Fallout New Vegas, Bioshock, Terraria etc. However with many of these games, after replaying them so much, even games with much replayability and stuff to do like New Vegas and Terraria, I just sort of... drop off.

 

This doesn't mean I no longer like these games, quite the contrary, that's why I've played them so much to be tired of playing them. What it means, to me, is that I want to play other things, find new stuff I enjoy, and then eventually come back to these games, and give them yet another shot.

 

And like Rudolph said, Doom hardly has a price of admission. The game'll still be there for you to come back to, and if it isn't, then it's hardly a big task to buy it again.

 

Apologies if this isn't talking specifically about what you were referring to with level designs and such, I just thought to bring up my perspective on this kind of thing

 

TL;DR: Play what you enjoy, rather than what you used to enjoy.

[D4NUK1]

15 minutes ago, tsathoggua said:

It sounds like you just shouldn't play older WADs (and possibly not newer WADs with an old school sensibility) since they're more likely to do the stuff you hate. It's not like there's a dearth of newer WADs based on more modern design principles to play.

Mostly this, i used to play older wads and don't find the appeal of some levels but newer wads don't stop me for liking a good match up as they learned a lot with thoses years. 

[Csucskos]

OK so what even is this thread about?

 

-That you have specific taste? I believe everyone does.

-That you don't enjoy every wad? It's also a common thing.

-That you use cheats to beat certain maps? If I had to guess, 99% of the players had this experience.

 

... so ... What?

 

While reading I had two ideas, albeit I don't know if they'd help (see earlier), First: try to make your own map. And I don't mean it in a mean way as "Yeah, you think it's easy? Do it yourself!" but as a genuine advice, you know what you like the best so maybe try designing your perfect map/wad. Second: Just abandon Doom for a while, try other games. Sometimes giving it a break can have big effects and coming back (if ever) you may not get frustrated over minor inconveniences. (like forced health pickup) Now I've thought about a third solution, maybe seek out for "good" wads, look up reviews, vids, do your research and don't just play every "trash". That's a lot of work, but maybe you'd keep your sanity that way.

 

Anyway, I hope you find enjoyment in something. (No matter if Doom or not Doom) :)

[out_of_service]

After twenty nine years of Dooming I find that it’s getting stale too. I maybe play ten minutes of Doom these days before sighing and shutting it down. That’s not a good feeling either.

[Thelokk]

4 hours ago, MFG38 said:

Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

Probably not the only one, but I personally don't. In fact, I enjoy the instances in which a mapper manages to incorporate tropes I find hateful, and forces me to admit... they kind of make sense, in the right context. 

[Murdoch]

Times change, people change, tastes change. Perfectly normal.

[tsathoggua]

Honestly, one of my favourite things about the fact that people continue to make content for this almost-30-year-old game is seeing how old ideas and tropes get repurposed, reinterpreted, worked into new ways of thinking about the game, and so on, so I don't personally myself getting tired of any of it -- that's why I'm playing Doom, and not something newer.

[666shooter]

I wholeheartedly agree with most of those critiques, except for the "mandatory healthpack in a narrow corridor" becomes "mandatory Cyberdemon fight in a narrow corridor" or even worse, "mandatory Cyberdemon fight in a narrow corridor you aren't going to win if you can't two-shot it with the BFG"... which I can't. I've had bad maps ruin entire Wads for me (here's looking at you, Jenesis), and a few minor instances of frustrating fights or item placement bring down otherwise solid maps (anything with a single shotgun forcing me to grind more than 2 or 3 mid-tiers, or more than 2 Revenants before a better weapon is obtained). Everyone has their preferences, and generally I try to find Wads that are closer to what I like, and have dropped plenty of Wads (even supposedly really high end Wads- I forced myself through Hell Revealed, despised it, except for map 25 [I think?] and then played about 4 maps of HR2 and decided it wasn't worth the effort). I think the best way to deal with Doom burnout is to go back and find the key features you loved about the game in the first place- for me, its a well-balanced fight with plenty of health and ammo (I even like slaughter if its more Stardate 20X6 and less 20X7), grand exploration and set-piece maps, and creative use of textures or portals. You take the bad with the good, but if the good doesn't outweigh the bad, can the Wad and find something better.

[Snark]

And I woke up to find I have a hemorroid. I'm not sure which one of us has the worst life right now.

[Rudolph]

40 minutes ago, 666shooter said:

I've had bad maps ruin entire Wads for me (here's looking at you, Jenesis)

What maps would that be?

[Mayomancer]

That's just what normally happens when you have enough experience with things such as games, music, etc. When you get to know better, you notice and get bothered by tinier stuff. I don't think there's any reason to think it's wrong to have specific preferences and pet peeves, as long as you're not letting small things prevent you from enjoying otherwise great content.

[forgettable pyromaniac]

burnout is a mood.

I was burnt out after making BG - I just took a break to play other games I enjoyed instead, and came back with a fresh outlook.

breaks are important, kids <3

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

@Csucskos there is nothing wrong with venting occasionally.

 

I get burnout a lot too, mainly because I have trouble with megawads not keeping me engaged. Regardless, I enjoy your posts and hope you'll stay in the community! I find that I enjoy interacting with the people here even when I'm taking a break from the game.

[Rudolph]

Another good thing about Classic Doom, as I said in a previous thread, is that it is easy to just pick up and play.

 

It is not a complex game that you have to invest a significant amount of time and energy.

[Doomkid]

You should definitely take more breaks, and you should not play wads you don't like.

 

Personally I never get tired of Doom itself. Any occasional "burnouts" or Doom related stressors are always totally self-imposed, I find. Sometimes I put way too much unnecessary pressure on myself to get some project I'm working on wrapped up or whatever, and it just makes it take longer in the end. That can suck.

 

BUTT, when I'm playing a map and I'm not having any fun (which is rare), I just quit the game for a day or so and do other things. Then when I come back to it, there's usually a good time waiting for me.

[666shooter]

2 hours ago, Rudolph said:

What maps would that be?

The one with all the precision running around the pit, where you have to stay inside the candles, running around the alter, and hit all four switches and then time your run through the lava pit to get past the elevators, I think it was 24? Except the linedefs didn't seem to match up exactly where the borders with the candles were, so I would always hit a teleport line and never could get the switches in time. I'm pretty sure I ended up NoClipping just to finish that horrible map. I am also very guilty of using IDDQD on really obnoxious Icon of Sin fights. I love most of the rest of Realms of Chaos, but I am not going to run around trying to figure out which switch opened what door on the other side of your map. Also... Three's a Crowd map 29. One of the first times I just stopped caring and used that cheat. But as much as I complain about Memento Mori... that Wad has a superb Icon of Sin fight.

Anyway, timed switch runs under pressure, bad platforming, and cramped combat are three other things that make me hate maps.

[Zero Master's Clone]

well just like everyone is saying

take a break seriously I can not recommend this enough.

 

After playing DOOM for so long I would be suprised if someone's tastes in maps hasn't changed.

I have been playing DOOM everyday since it came out and just like you I have gotten tired of pressing a switch and having to go to the other side of the map to see what it did, I have gotten tired of press a switch and 400 demons spawn right in your face even though I'm not playing a slaughter map.

 

so i highly recommend taking a break from DOOM or go back and play your top favorite maps

 

don't pay attention to my 2nd reply I broke it somehow and now it is gone

Edited May 24, 2022 by Zero Master's Clone

[Terminus]

I get this feeling quite a lot unfortunately, however I have found plenty of ways to help get past the burnout.

Here's a few tips that might help, some might seem obvious and some less:

 

1. Play something else. Literally stop playing Doom and go play a different game, preferably a long one, or even several ones, until you get the feeling of "Man, I miss Doom".

2. Don't force yourself through an entire megawad. I have personally cleared almost every megawad that exists out there, and only in the past couple of years I've come to this realization. One-man-megawads or dated megawads specifically tend to have recurring tropes (such as the ones you mentioned you dislike), so it's totally fine to drop a megawad at any point you feel like you've grown tired of it. If anything, skip through the levels with idclev to see if there might be something you find interesting.

3. Play speedmaps between bigger projects. Speedmaps are like having a nice bite-size snack when you're not too hungry. They fit perfectly into that role in Doom - If you just wanna blast some monsters and clear levels that take on average 7 minutes or less, speedmaps are perfect for this. I can personally vouch for this being the most efficient burnout cure - Play a bunch of "bite-sized" projects until you feel like you're ready to tackle the next big one.

4. Replay some of your favorites! It's exactly like having a bad meal and going "man, I could really use some [Favorite food] right now". You'll reignite your love for Doom because your favorite wads will remind you why you've been playing this game for so many years.

 

Most important of it all is not to force yourself to go through any map ever. If you're not having fun, close the game and do something else. You don't have to quit, but taking breaks from time to time is important just as well.

Hope this helps :)

[Zero Master's Clone]

17 hours ago, MFG38 said:

my preferences in level design have become extremely specific over the years. Of course, they've been shaped by all the wads I've same here

Edited May 24, 2022 by Zero Master's Clone

[sandwedge]

It's cool, you don't have to play doom anymore.  We'll ban you just to be safe, though.

[Dark Pulse]

The key to keeping anything enjoyable is moderation, and when you feel tired of it, stepping back from it for awhile.

 

Sooner or later the itch will come back. Or it might not. That depends on you.

 

Either way, probably a good time to step away from it if you're feeling bored with it for now.

[TuomasGaming]

don't clickbait please.

[Graf Zahl]

I understand your problems. In recent years I found an increasing number of supposedly high profile WADs rather unappealing or downright unpleasant to play.

 

My main grievances:

 

* ambush oriented gameplay, i.e. you have to be on constant watch for monsters appearing out of nowhere - preferably behind you -, so there's no fun exploring the depopulated map or a chance taking a rest from the action.

* cryptic level design where hitting a switch leaves one guessing what it actually did. This is nothing new, of course - just yesterday I played a Duke Nukem map where a key was in plain sight behind some bars and the switch to open it was - in the fucking fridge in the next room! It didn't add any complexity, just some totally unnecessary confusion. Sometimes it's really best to just allow the player to open it directly.

* too many big monsters to fight. While this makes a map supposedly "harder", it also can take all the momentum out of the gameplay. Doom's biggest asset are not the Revenants, Cacodemons or Hell Knights, but its low tier monsters which can be quickly dispatched of, even in large packs. But these days many maps just replace the low tier enemies with the same amount of mid tier enemies, which in nearly all cases slows down gameplay to a grind - the main problem here being that we got nothing to cover the gap between these two groups (like something with 150-250 hit points)

 

I also rarely play through full megawads. And even if I do I rarely replay them. My main problem with megawads are that they tend to be community efforts. The typical result is often a rather inconherent mishmash of styles and/or the tendency to have too many too large maps, because if every mapper has their one slot they tend to make it "count" by providing a large map. So you go from one big map to the next... and the next... and the next... The point will come where this stops being interesting.

 

All that said, I found the same problems in virtually all Duke/Blood maps I played recently - and these games often fared far worse because even when building some quasi-realistic locations, the switches are often put into ridiculous places (like the fridge I mentioned or other similar compartments where no sane person would ever put a switch in the first place) and the monsters in these games tend to be far less balanced than Doom's so going for the "hard" route often makes a map downright unpleasant to play.

 

My way to counter some of the issues is often to load a monster mod that downgrades the mid tier enemies to new ones in the gap I mentioned above. Several times it has been amazing how this improved the flow in some of these maps.

[MFG38]

13 hours ago, Csucskos said:

try to make your own map.

 

I have. About 150 of them.

 

11 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

I get burnout a lot too, mainly because I have trouble with megawads not keeping me engaged. Regardless, I enjoy your posts and hope you'll stay in the community!

 

I'll assume this part of your post was directed at me. Don't worry, I don't plan on leaving this community anytime soon. I still love Doom and the people here too much to consider it.

 

9 hours ago, Terminus said:

Replay some of your favorites! It's exactly like having a bad meal and going "man, I could really use some [Favorite food] right now". You'll reignite your love for Doom because your favorite wads will remind you why you've been playing this game for so many years.

 

Funnily enough, I have been meaning to replay Eviternity. Maybe I'll get around to that sooner rather than later. I don't usually replay wads, but Eviternity is one of the rare exceptions in that regard. Part of the reason is that I have yet to play the final version - I only ever played through RC1.

 

5 hours ago, TuomasGaming said:

don't clickbait please.

 

Still not sorry.

Edited May 24, 2022 by MFG38 : Typo.

[Mara]

Breaks are insanely important and usually underestimated. I have personal experience of this, not in DOOM but in another game that I've played actively since 2009, osu!

 

When you spend a huge chunk of your playtime to one singular game, you tend to enjoy all sort of things that the game and the community is offering. The different styles of beatmaps I played, all sort of community tournaments I played and so on. Eventually however I also got hit by that burnout and it does happen from time to time. Playing some types of beatmaps feels insanely bothersome and forcing myself to play them to improve myself feels like work. That's why you need to mentally reset, a snap. Play something else a bit for few days. Even right now as I am writing, I am recovering myself with some Risk of Rain 2 (which is insanely good game, highly recommend) and it is doing some wonders.

 

DOOM is not going anywhere.