[Ultimate Doom, complevel 3] Solar Struggle Community Project: Release thread. [Now on IDGAMES]

[RHhe82]

I've been trying to play all the levels, but with limited time, made very little progress. Just now I'm playing E1M5, a bit confusing progression there... In any case, so far I haven't detected anything weird. In E1M4 you can totally skip YK. I was worried about soft lock, but actually it looks you can exit the level, or the area if you so desire.

 

In E1M5, I noticed there's a switch on the other side of a pillar switch. I couldn't press it, and a quick look in UDB revealed it actually does nothing.

 

[Shawny]

3 minutes ago, RHhe82 said:

In E1M5, I noticed there's a switch on the other side of a pillar switch. I couldn't press it, and a quick look in UDB revealed it actually does nothing.

 

You must be playing the older version of the wad. That switch, indeed, does nothing and in the newer version the texture is not a switch anymore.

[RHhe82]

(Let me just keep on messing around, sigh…)

 

Indeed, I was playing an older version. Oops, my bad. Will resume playing tomorrow.

Edited June 10, 2022 by RHhe82 : Making a mess

[ViolentBeetle]

1 hour ago, Book Lord said:

Episode 4: Venusian Violence (played in RC2)

Thanks for playing. What's not critical can be left to mappers to adapt, I'll see if anything requires attention now.

[MAN_WITH_GUN]

2 hours ago, Book Lord said:

Ooof... 599 monsters on UV? ViolentBeetle said he did not want magnum opus maps in Solar Struggle, but this double-sized entry has made it so far without trims. Well, this is not a hard map because of the monster quota or the encounter design; the difficulty comes from the sheer length of the exploration and the trap-heavy design. The tech-base is nice with interesting elements and feels both IWAD-ish and somehow refreshing. I think the "floating city" theme is a bit preposterous here, with absurdities like walking on (damaging) sky and floating clouds of nukage waste. There is a ton of secrets (11); I found everything except the Computer Area Map, whose shootable switch escaped my attention. Since the secrets are a separate challenge of an already long map, the unreachable BFG on the crate is a bit of a troll move, and the BFG closet in the crusher section is obnoxious as well. The whole crusher section is terrible in my opinion, it forces to proceed slow and carefully, and it never stops, so you might cross it multiple times and is a chore. The optional section leading to the Soul Sphere in the east is incredibly long-winded for such a standard reward. The dark area with the plasma gun in the south-east is also super-annoying, with Shotgunners, Spectres and a nasty ambush that you must escape in the darkness. The rest was ok, the computer block was long and nonthreatening, but it was entertaining and impressive to look at. It is a horrible thing to say and for an author to do, but I think this map needs some trimming to fit into the megaWAD's big picture. The chief candidates for the activity are the whole south-western dark section, as it provides a weapon and bonuses found elsewhere and mostly annoying combat, and some parts of the eastern pool, which was heavily guarded but for no apparent reason. The BFG should be obtainable in some manner, for example by placing a teleporter in the secret that now holds a useless radsuit. The crushers might stay, but please make them stop when you cross Linedef 9435 with action 57. If this makes the BFG secret "too easy", then remove it or swap it for the Invulnerability.

 

Hey, thanks for such a wonderful review on my map! As i thought people will definitely start complain about that crusher section and first way to get plasma gun, crusher section could be tricky not only in single player but in multiplayer too, since it should be designed for it too.

 

Crusher section

 

I was thinking about extra teleporters somewhere in a map, so when you complete the crusher section and get to the exit area - some platforms with teleports will lower and you will get to the place with a exit room without making this section twice or even more. Linedefs with "stoping the crushers" would be annoying for multiplayer i think since at some specific timing they can just be stuck until you across the line to activate them again, so basically teleports could be the only way.

Personally speaking, i see nothing wrong getting BFG the way it is, you want powerful weapon? Then try it, but it won't be easy. Highly risky - highly rewarded.

But yeah i think i'll take a closer look on that one, thanks for your opinion about this :0

 

Plasma gun (first grab)

 

Yeah, it was designed being annoying as a reference to original E2M6 of Ultimate Doom but as i said with BFG scenario, highly risky - highly rewarded. But with this one i'll definitely cut off some monsters from some traps in this section since i also thought it would be too much for just a plasma gun. I don't know if i'm really up to cut this part of the map since it's one of the cool parts of the level for me, it will be a hard choice. Also thanks for pointing out this section.

 

Extra thoughts:

 

Thanks for someone finally noticed my trolling BFG on top of the crates. :kappaface:

 

Yeah, during developing i kinda forgot about the theme of episode, i was more about making it "Waste Recycling Facility" map than a part of episode. Even after VB tell me about this issue i tried to fix it by adding floating stuff and holes with the sky but it didn't help really.

 

I'll cut yellow part of the map definitely, it's pointless really.

 

 

 

Hope i answered all stuff that you been interested in.

[SMG_Man]

4 hours ago, Book Lord said:

E4M6: Mass Propulsion by @SMG_Man

 

I appreciate seeing your thoughts here. A couple of things I can say regarding the design:

 

1. Originally, the enemies would teleport in after the Cyberdemons were killed (on UV specifically), and there wouldn't be a search for a yellow key. Instead the player would be free to make their way through the rest of the level by means of any of the three routes (finding the door switches, rushing through the sludge, or taking the teleporter to the southern section).

 

2. The sludge was originally more deadly, using the -10/20% health effect (to match the -10/20% blinking light sector effect). This was changed to make getting through there a little less annoying, and the damage was removed from the blinking light sectors since they're crushers that will harm the player anyway. If they weren't crushing as intended, that's a separate issue.

 

If it wouldn't be too much to ask, could you try playing the level on HMP or HNTR? I explicitly made it to be more conventional on the lower difficulties, so if it plays better like that I could go about rearranging things on UV.

 

In either case, making a level that's fun to play is what's important to me at the end of the day. I can always make adjustments to it before the final release if it's just not hitting the spot for others.

[Book Lord]

2 hours ago, MAN_WITH_GUN said:

 

Hey, thanks for such a wonderful review on my map! As i thought people will definitely start complain about that crusher section and first way to get plasma gun, crusher section could be tricky not only in single player but in multiplayer too, since it should be designed for it too.

 

Crusher section

 

I was thinking about extra teleporters somewhere in a map, so when you complete the crusher section and get to the exit area - some platforms with teleports will lower and you will get to the place with a exit room without making this section twice or even more. Linedefs with "stoping the crushers" would be annoying for multiplayer i think since at some specific timing they can just be stuck until you across the line to activate them again, so basically teleports could be the only way.

Personally speaking, i see nothing wrong getting BFG the way it is, you want powerful weapon? Then try it, but it won't be easy. Highly risky - highly rewarded.

But yeah i think i'll take a closer look on that one, thanks for your opinion about this :0

 

Plasma gun (first grab)

 

Yeah, it was designed being annoying as a reference to original E2M6 of Ultimate Doom but as i said with BFG scenario, highly risky - highly rewarded. But with this one i'll definitely cut off some monsters from some traps in this section since i also thought it would be too much for just a plasma gun. I don't know if i'm really up to cut this part of the map since it's one of the cool parts of the level for me, it will be a hard choice. Also thanks for pointing out this section.

 

Extra thoughts:

 

Thanks for someone finally noticed my trolling BFG on top of the crates. :kappaface:

 

Yeah, during developing i kinda forgot about the theme of episode, i was more about making it "Waste Recycling Facility" map than a part of episode. Even after VB tell me about this issue i tried to fix it by adding floating stuff and holes with the sky but it didn't help really.

 

I'll cut yellow part of the map definitely, it's pointless really.

 

 

 

Hope i answered all stuff that you been interested in.

 

Thank you for the answer, and for taking my criticism as constructive, more than it actually was. My comments have been written in a rush, trying to get to the point with minimum words, and obviously fail to highlight the numerous qualities of the level. As a tech-base, it was a great piece of work. In the middle of a vanilla megawad where most maps last 30 minutes, this would be a highlight. In Solar Struggle, my UV blind runs of the maps required 10-22 minutes to max everything; your map required 52 minutes. It's out of scale. If the disproportion were not that huge, I  won't be advocating a painful solution such as trimming content. Especially content that still looks and plays good. The yellow key part is good, I liked the area where the key is acquired, but after so much effort at finding the way to get outside and facing a lot of traps, it leads nowhere. It leads to a Soul Sphere and to an unreachable BFG.

 

I got the homage to E2M6 with the dark labyrinth, it was noticeable. Yours is darker though, with hitscanners and Spectres. After dying at the first attempt, I went straight for the maze exit, spraying things in my way, and waited for the enemies to come out. So, it is a type of ambush that you may fall for at first time, but will surely disarm the next. I do not like to fight enemies I cannot see, though it is a part of Doom that sometimes rears its head.

 

I failed to mention that the final fight was great fun, possibly the best of the map. The Cyberdemon appears after some time in the western room, and the first time he appeared right behind me to shoot me at point-blank. He must enter the combat somewhere, though he should probably appear in the large room where everybody will see him. 

 

Thanks for answering and for the given consideration, I think your map has the potential to be the best in the episode, if not in the megawad, but there is too much content right now that clutters the best of its gameplay. The secret hunting and the multi-level paths in the giant computer room were fascinating. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Book Lord

[ViolentBeetle]

I really like the E4M6 as is, it's very unusual and interesting to explore. 100%-ers might have an issue with it though.

[Book Lord]

27 minutes ago, SMG_Man said:

 

I appreciate seeing your thoughts here. A couple of things I can say regarding the design:

 

1. Originally, the enemies would teleport in after the Cyberdemons were killed (on UV specifically), and there wouldn't be a search for a yellow key. Instead the player would be free to make their way through the rest of the level by means of any of the three routes (finding the door switches, rushing through the sludge, or taking the teleporter to the southern section).

 

2. The sludge was originally more deadly, using the -10/20% health effect (to match the -10/20% blinking light sector effect). This was changed to make getting through there a little less annoying, and the damage was removed from the blinking light sectors since they're crushers that will harm the player anyway. If they weren't crushing as intended, that's a separate issue.

 

If it wouldn't be too much to ask, could you try playing the level on HMP or HNTR? I explicitly made it to be more conventional on the lower difficulties, so if it plays better like that I could go about rearranging things on UV.

 

In either case, making a level that's fun to play is what's important to me at the end of the day. I can always make adjustments to it before the final release if it's just not hitting the spot for others.

 

I noticed that the 2 Cyberdemons are exclusively on UV skill. I will give the level a try on lower difficulties to see how it plays, I might change my mind.

 

The way the enemies teleport in after pressing the yellow switch is very slow and random. It gradually annoyed me to the point I decided to leave asap, as I was taking cheap damage from behind and killing most monsters felt like a pointless activity. I think that a more set piece oriented teleport would improve the map, but it might be just my opinion.

 

It definitely is a non-standard creation, and the multiple paths to the exit are crosscurrent, considering that most Doom maps take 100% everything for granted.

 

Forget about the blinking lights, there are definitely crushers there. My memory is not always reliable. Thanks for answering and also for the map, I have never played something like that before.

 

P.S. I don't know if the blood pit in the YSK room had to be inescapable, a lift to get out would be appreciated.

 

[Anarkzie]

4 hours ago, Book Lord said:

Episode 4: Venusian Violence (played in RC2)

 

E4M2: Customs Office by @Anarkzie
Big queue at the immigration office today! This map is positively crazy with its convoluted progression, exploding barrels, and twisting paths. The customs warehouses full of inappropriate equipment (somebody is smuggling Nazi paintings on Venus? lol), the absence of security railings and parapets for the service crew, the Spiderdemon & the Cyberdemon appearing without preambles, all these features contribute to a light-hearted atmosphere, touching the borders of comedy. Nothing is too difficult combat-wise, and the numerous enemies largely die like flies. The map provides interesting things to see, like the scary (but harmless) Lost Soul trap in the control room, the weird hellish sections, the maintenance catwalks above the clouds. I found the secret exit before learning that the normal one was readily accessible; I tried to open the bars, but they are difficult to operate properly (as any narrow bars used as doors), so I thought there was an alternative unlocking procedure. Please, place a(n exit) door instead of those faulty bars.
Some minor bugs that need to be amended:
1) Thin Linedef 3422 has PIPEWAL1 texture in the middle of STARTAN1 and looks like a slime trail (but it isn't)
2) The insta-pop monsters in the YSK room are in pits with FIREWALA texture and they can be seen before activating them. Shouldn't the pit lines have no texture?
3) Linedefs 1770/1785/1779/1768/1780 received a teleport effect to prevent the player from jumping down in the lower room, but this is pointless because he won't be through the red door without the RSK found at the bottom. Moreover, Action 97 WR Teleport caused a Lost Soul to repeatedly warp on that line for a buggy effect. Maybe you could do without the teleport effect and place more grates here if you want to block the line. The Lost Souls are useless in any case in this room, as they are mostly trapped behind solid mid-textures.

Screenshots of the bugs:

 

 

Some interesting feedback, its always good to have someone else look at your work through fresh eyes and give their impression. I'm glad most of the rooms were clear in there thematic purpose, Venus does indeed have a problem with illegal Nazi art smugglers. The lack of security railings were because it was supposed to be a dock though, but I get that, that was not clear so I may need to add railings to not to confuse players.

 

I was concerned the map may have been too hard so I'm glad that's not the case. 

 

my regular exit issue I think I can solve with a switch but in general I think I may have made the secret exit too easy to find in the first place.
 

I used FIREWALA to show that they're coming from Hell, but I'm guessing that did not read.

 

I need to remove those Lost Souls as they originally could go through the gates but I changed that for some reason I think it was either annoying or hard I forget.

[SMG_Man]

2 hours ago, Book Lord said:

P.S. I don't know if the blood pit in the YSK room had to be inescapable, a lift to get out would be appreciated.

 

I can make a lift, sure

[Nefelibeta]

Update for e2m8, only a couple of minor issues.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lkjar9jvsnab2yr/solare2m8.wad?dl=0

[ViolentBeetle]

1 minute ago, Nefelibeta said:

Update for e2m8, only a couple of minor issues.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lkjar9jvsnab2yr/solare2m8.wad?dl=0 

Just to make sure, I did a few minor fixes back in a day on your map, did you take use the map from the wad as a base?

[Nefelibeta]

Just now, ViolentBeetle said:

Just to make sure, I did a few minor fixes back in a day on your map, did you take use the map from the wad as a base?

nope, if you want to fix it manualy. then it's one floating stimpack in plasma gun area. Then in the square arena(after you get RL) The teleporter outside of the room might cause some visual issues in gl. Please lower the outer wall blocking the teleporter to the ceiling height.

[ViolentBeetle]

3 minutes ago, Nefelibeta said:

nope, if you want to fix it manualy. then it's one floating stimpack in plasma gun area. Then in the square arena(after you get RL) The teleporter outside of the room might cause some visual issues in gl. Please lower the outer wall blocking the teleporter to the ceiling height.

Ok, I'll just do that.

[LordEntr0py]

On 6/5/2022 at 4:25 PM, Caleb13 said:

E4M1: Both secrets are inacessibe in GZdoom because the lift trigger linedefs are facing the wrong way. Well, linedef 1481 actually works, but is tiny and has no visual cue.

That's not how you're supposed to reach the secrets. That's how you return to the rest of the map *from* the secret areas.

[Caleb13]

@LordEntr0py Ah, I see now. Linedef 1481 shouldn't trigger the lift, then.

[ViolentBeetle]

I would like a little poll on who wants to do some more changes to their maps before release. Particularly based of E3 feedback.

Or have something minor I can change for you quickly.

 

If you do want to implement change, please grab RC2 version, because I was sneakily editing minor issues like misalignments across the wad.

[PinkFlamingo]

Thanks a lot for the review @Book Lord! I'll address your comments.

 

Quote

The final wall of monsters exhausted my whole cell resources and most rockets, I am not sure if pistol starters can break through.

 

Yes, it is possible. But you need to use the rockets first to reduce/weaken the number of demons before they get too close to you. Then, finish everything with the BFG. Also, make sure you walk close enough to the spider at the end (by using the raised stones). Your BFG blasts will be more efficient then.

 

Quote

1) Step on sector 462 without shooting the eye switch that raises the barriers. I am not sure if you can survive long enough to kill the Spiderdemon, but you can indeed hit the boss with rockets or BFG balls from there

 

I can fix this one very easily by raising the target height for sector 462 by 1 unit/pixel. Then, Doomguy can no longer climb this section.

 

Quote

2) Just before the BFG, on sector 107/269 the floor level is high enough to hit the Spider with rockets from safety (hide behind the corner if she sees you).
Very minor issues, but you might want the map to be 100% tight under that aspect.

 

I need to think a bit about this. Maybe adding a damaging floor on the edge (a lavafall) or having the sectors lower into the lava will discourage people from using this trick.

 

By the way. Did you notice that there already is a punishment for 'cheaters' that kill the spider prematurely? If you kill the spider before you've reached the BFG, 10 cacodemons will spawn from the center. These cacodemons are crushed when you reach the BFG so they normally do not appear (notice your kill count go up, right before you get to the BFG).

 

@ViolentBeetle, I will make these changes to my map. I'll use the latest RC2 as a base.

[LordEntr0py]

5 hours ago, Caleb13 said:

@LordEntr0py Ah, I see now. Linedef 1481 shouldn't trigger the lift, then.

Oh! I see what you mean. Yeah, it shouldn't. Thanks for catching that!

[PinkFlamingo]

@ViolentBeetle, here is an updated version of my map: SolarStruggle_E4M8_PF_V4.rar

I used RC2 as base and copy-pasted the map data in a new file.

 

Changes:

I raised every eye-switch by 1 pixel so Doomguy can no longer climb them.

I slightly redesigned the corridor before the BFG area to address comments by @Book Lord: I've added a lava fall with damaging floor here so players can no longer stand on the edge and shoot at the spider. Added an extra stimpack to compensate for any damage you might take while walking on the lava. 

[LordEntr0py]

4 hours ago, PinkFlamingo said:

I raised every eye-switch by 1 pixel so Doomguy can no longer climb them.

At risk of derailing things slightly... I like to use the Impassable flag for this.

[ViolentBeetle]

For all mappers, I'd like to have this thing out by the end of June, properly, so if you have any changes to make, please do it by, like, 23rd of June to give me a week to prepare and upload. Thanks in advance.

I have already approved of all maps they currently are, so although there's obviously no limit to perfection, you gotta draw the line somewhere.

[Wavy]

Updated my map yet again to v2.111 to fix some bugs noted by @ViolentBeetle. Get it here.

 

Changelog:

• The shootable evil eye is now visible on easy mode.
• The tunnel opened by the evil eye secret has lighting applied and has evil eyes around the entrance of the tunnel.
• The backpack secret is now actually-actually a secret. (i.e it now gets marked as a secret upon entering it)
• Fixed some of the red cracks in the large crate room from not showing.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Wavy

[Book Lord]

Since Shawny has already done HNTR, I have played E1 on HMP and I have not encountered particular issues.

 

There is a typo in the endgame text (3rd paragraph):

"You plot couse towards the asteroid belt"

 

I have some more observations on E1M5: Mining Complex by @RataUnderground:

1) Sec 688 is 16x144, it is thin to be a secret sector and I cannot score it by any means (I do not remember what happened on first playthrough, maybe I had 4/5 secrets as well). You should probably choose a bigger sector to score that secret (player is 32-unit wide).

2) The Pinky closet in the screenshot is triggered only by Linedefs 829/830. This means that even when collecting the backpack a player might jump off the cliff on the waterfall side and not activate the closet. You should either extend the trigger to Linedefs 827/828/849/850, or unleash the Demons elsewhere, for example when jumping off the tall waterfall at the entrance of the pool (Lines 3758/3763/3764). The closet is very easy to miss even if you find 100% secrets.

3) The Sergeant (Thing 106) in Sec 327 is there only on UV. On lower difficulties, the closet opens suddenly and it's empty. Maybe place a Former Human for Skill 1-3.

4) The fact that there are two YKs on this map escaped my attention at first playthrough. The YK on the lift to access the big dark cavern is not really necessary. It gives the player more options to leave the area when the secret cave section is over: either you collect the RK and head for the exit, or you open the yellow door and return to the starting area. The second direction might be misleading: if you take the other path, you end up finding the YK again and it might be confusing where to look for the RK, especially if you already explored that area and missed the progression steps. Moreover, west of the RK there's a window to jump in the starting area if so the player wants, but not before finding RK. Once the RK is acquired, there is actually no need to collect YK to complete the map, unless the player wants 100%. A duplicate key is weird and here it is not essential to progress, but it is your map so the choice is yours.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Book Lord

[ViolentBeetle]

@Book Lord Thanks for your report. We already spotted the first two earlier and you make a good point on 3rd. I talked with Rata so we decided to keep the yellow key as is.

[sandwedge]

Really enjoyed the rest of this first episode.  This is the first build that was in this release thread I believe, so might be some older issues but I will be starting on RC2 for episode 2.  Didn't really see any issues, tho apparently some custom intermission text didn't show up in episode 1.  Awesome themed levels, cohesive feel, fun gameplay flow even playing blind saveless, great work y'all!

 

 

[PinkFlamingo]

A few more bugs/texture misalignments I spotted in the first two episodes:

 

E1M1: The stone texture on the bed in the very first room (linedef 783) seems misaligned when compared to all other beds in the other cells. The vertical stripe should line up with the corner of the bed. A similar misalignment can be seen on the most eastern bench in the waiting area before the RK door (linedefs 2130 and adjacent ones). These are very minor details but it's the first room of the megawad and the first thing people might see so it's better to be perfect here.

 

E2M1: Towards the final cave area, linedefs 1402 and 1063 seem to be misaligned? Or is this intentional to simulate a collapse of the floor?

E2M2: The "Evil Eye" in sector 595 (Thing 122) is not flagged for Easy difficulty and is thus missing on HNTR. This makes this secret difficult to spot/understand.

 

E2M4: In GZDoom, this switch at the bottom of the water pit (linedef 239) does not animate. This is because there is an unnecessary upper texture on this linedef. Remove it and the switch will animate correctly (I had this same problem in one of my maps).

 

On 6/13/2022 at 12:39 AM, LordEntr0py said:

At risk of derailing things slightly... I like to use the Impassable flag for this.

 

This would have worked as well in this case. At some point I discovered that you could make a sector 25 pixels tall and block the player (instead of raising it to the typical 32 pixels). Since then, I've used this technique for all kinds of obstacles. Usually tables or desks where I feel 32 pixels is too high to look realistic, and where I also want flying enemies to be able to fly over them. In this case though, it wasn't necessary. It's just a mapping habit really.

[Wavy]

51 minutes ago, PinkFlamingo said:

E2M2: The "Evil Eye" in sector 595 (Thing 122) is not flagged for Easy difficulty and is thus missing on HNTR. This makes this secret difficult to spot/understand.

I've already fixed this in v2.111.

[Book Lord]

I have played also E2 on Hurt Me Plenty. There are some small issues:

 

E2M2: Storage Complex by @Wavy
For some reason, I could not score the lowering crate secret in the warehouse. The secrets in the screenshot have been registered, the Blur Sphere being off screen. The player is on the sector with Effect 9, but still no secret is found.

 

E2M4: Air Filtration Plant by @Weird Sandwich
Player 1 start is misplaced in RC2. It is wrong on all difficulties and must be moved to the original place. This has been reported by others.

E2M6: Transport Nexus by @Jark
I forgot to mention that Sec 1516 is an invisible, inescapable pit and that it is a harsh punishment if you fall inside without knowing your destiny. A way out of the pit would be nice. Good to see the other changes applied to the level..

E2M8: Ceres Gateway by @Nefelibeta

The monster closets in the first room are triggered only if the player takes the chaingun. If you do not need the weapon (e.g. continuous play), the double ammo box in front of the chaingun will probably prevent closets from being activated. It is better to move the triggering line before the stairs, so the closet will surely open, regardless of the chaingun.