Jumpwad (7 platforming maps by Ribbiks and me! :D)

[Grain of Salt]

Okay, this is the final final update. It turned out Ribbiks' last update broke map06, so an update was necessary after all. Luckily this update does not seem to desync any demos!!!

 

Quote

- map03: making good on a claim that no big gems require sr50

--- ravendesk's demos are still in sync

- map06: turns out monsters can't see through 242 sectors

- map07: fixed a softlock

 

Same link as ever, heh. Except now with https instead of http: https://www.rbkz.net/doom/jumpwad.zip

[besus]

NGL the projectile pistol calling A_VileAttack was pretty clever, all I could think of when I was trying to do something similar the other day is a Keen A_VileTarget spawning shootable vile flame that pains and A_VileAttacks upon being shot, which sometimes becomes a weird tagless TP on pain or massively off-center. The dehacked in this is quite something.

This seems quite fun doing it blind when people with no spacial awareness like me aren't getting lost in giant maps. I've only reached map 03 but I've already exhausted myself looking for the exit on map 02. Couldn't do software rendering as recomended without turning my computer into a radiator, what a shame.

Edit: Just found out that Ribbiks wrote about the vile attack TP long ago, lol

Edited September 10, 2022 by snotface

[Contmotore]

Great job, absolutely love it!

 

I played this yesterday with my buddy in co-op. However, in Odamex and Zandronum it didn't function well, so I had to use Woof! instead.

Is there a way to run this properly in Odamex or Zandronum as well?

 

Keep up the good work!

[Dimon12321]

I noticed there are weird teleport destinations here and there, in hard/impossible to reach spots. For example, on Map 1, there are sectors with tags 5555, 5556, 5557, even though, no linedef teleports to them. What were they intended for?

Also, it's sad that Eternal Flame doesn't do anything. You could have made it a light amplification visor that lasts "forever"

Edited October 9, 2022 by Dimon12321

[Gregor]

There seems to be a limit on how many jumps you can make in each map before a "bomb" icon shows up and you die shortly afterwards. I got the bomb after about 15min of playtime in Map01. I don't understand how this is possible, since the health of the player should be pretty much infinite (according to the deh file, it's 2^31). It's strange that this jump limit isn't mentioned in the txt file nor anywhere in this thread. Is this some kind of strange bug?

 

Also, according to Ribbiks' explanation, the snow generating invisible monsters have to awoken by the player before they start snowing:

 

"ceiling-spawning enemies that fire a constant stream of 0-velocity projectiles which are affected by gravity. They need to be awakened like normal doom monsters before they'll start firing, which is why each snowy level makes you do a few jumps before entering the main areas (quite convenient that jumping here is equivalent to firing a weapon!)"

 

But in Map05 the snow starts immediately on startup. How do the monsters wake up?

Edited October 14, 2022 by Gregor

[akolai]

@Dimon12321 the 555X tags are flame spawns: at the start of each map, they randomly pick one to spawn at. all are reachable, some are just a bit crazy

[Gregor]

@Grain of Salt i noticed that the D_READ_M midi that plays in MAP08 & MAP09 is not named in the text file. It's a very simple piece, so maybe it doesn't have a name, but is it by Ribbiks or from another source? I'd like to add this info to the Doomwiki article.

 

Also, do you know where the midi for Map01, "Fluctuation", originated from? The text file says that it's written by "Tack", but who is that? I couldn't find any info online. Are they part of the Doom community?

 

And my question again from a few days ago, what determines the bomb icon that seemingly shows up after a certain amount of jumps?

Edited October 14, 2022 by Gregor

[Grain of Salt]

Ribbiks says:

Quote

Tack (composer of jumpwad01 midi), is a japanese musician who was active in the early 2000s, can check out their site via wayback machine http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~tack808/

 

The MAP08 and MAP09 music is actually just a quick edit of MAP01 music made by me, because I like that part of the song and I love when themes from the start of games get reprised.

 

About the dying-after-15-minutes-of-jumping thing:

* You definitely shouldn’t be able to do this. It’s true that you have finite health and jumping damages you, but (as you mention) you should have enough health to jump constantly for several days (we worked this out back in the day but I can’t remember the exact figures sorry). We’ve both jumped around levels for a long time while making this and never had something like this happen, and I haven't seen anyone encounter this while streaming jumpwad either :/
* You say this happens in DSDA-doom. Do you know what complevel you’re in? Does it happen in other ports? My theories are: something else is damaging you somehow, your port won’t let deh set health to the value it should be, or maybe the archvile blasts are damaging you a lot more than they should somehow. However, I’m really in the dark to be honest.
* As an aside, the bomb icon is a relic of very very early jumpwad (which I had no idea was still in the wad, wow), when I had the vague idea that there might be bomb items you have to avoid because once you have them your next jump will kill you (they were actually replacing a health item and setting your health to 1, and the bomb icon replaces the status bar face for when you’re at 0-20 health). Even back then I didn’t think much of this idea.

 

Sorry for the delay in replying.

[Grain of Salt]

On 10/12/2022 at 2:14 AM, Gregor said:

But in Map05 the snow starts immediately on startup. How do the monsters wake up?

 

I think the ones that wake up at the start are just ones that can see you, and the ones in the rest of the map are the ones that get woken when you jump

[Gregor]

Thank you for the information! I should have payed better attention, then i would have noticed that the midi recycled a part of "Fluctuation". I guess it's because that synth in the foreground is so dominant that it drowns out the perception of the chords in the background.

 

That's very interesting concerning the bomb icon. So it's a bug of some sort. I'm actually glad that's the case because having to beat the map with a set number of jumps would be pretty annoying, especially since i didn't even jump that much in those 15mins, so the allocated number would be pretty small. Then again, for a speedrun this added challenge level of having to ration your jumps might actually be appealing to some player. Might just have invented a new category there. ;)

 

Now, besides using DSDA and OpenGL, i didn't really have anything unusual loaded. I do load a separate config for jumpwad in the batch file because otherwise i'd always have to turn off the palette change on pain every time i play. But that's it. So is the bomb feature actually implemented in the wad? Maybe it could simply be removed from the wad archive then. From what you said about the bomb feature, i would assume that my player health is as it's supposed to be, but i somehow got given a bomb and that then set my health to 1 which is why i died on the very next jump. I haven't tested it on any other port and so far it only happened in Map01 (i've only beaten the first three maps so far). I also haven't gotten it since but that may simply be because i know what to do now when i play the map and beat it in 5mins rather than just running and jumping around aimlessly for 15mins. I will check again later today if i can recreate the effect.

 

23 hours ago, Grain of Salt said:

 

I think the ones that wake up at the start are just ones that can see you, and the ones in the rest of the map are the ones that get woken when you jump

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

 

 

Btw, is jumpwad gonna be released on idgames eventually?

Edited October 15, 2022 by Gregor

[Xymph]

The second "map MAP08" entry in MAPINFO should be MAP09.
In the .txt file "Icecream" should be "Ice Cream" to match MAPINFO/DEHACKED.

 

[Gregor]

 I couldn't reproduce the bomb icon glitch. I used DSDA with OpenGL and kept the jump button depressed for 30min in Map01. I don't remember if i had anything else set differently when it originally happened.

[Gregor]

@Grain of Salt can you tell me who made Maps08 and 09?

 

Another i'd like to ask is how the meteor launcher is triggered and how its fire pattern is controlled?

Edited October 17, 2022 by Gregor

[yakfak]

bumping to say I just saw Akolai's MAP07 Max and it blew my mind!!!! insanely pretty and arcane

[Aquila Chrysaetos]

Most fun I've had with Doom in a while, I'd love to see more of this.

[Grain of Salt]

On 10/16/2022 at 9:30 AM, Gregor said:

@Grain of Salt can you tell me who made Maps08 and 09?

 

Another i'd like to ask is how the meteor launcher is triggered and how its fire pattern is controlled?

 

1. Both 08 and 09 were Ribbiks

 

2. IIRC there's a deh Thing that periodically fires (or spawns via the mbf action?) the meteor inside a deep water sector that has a certain thrust attribute (which is what dictates the way it's going), and then it goes through a silent teleporter to where it's supposed to fire from in the map. I'm a bit rusty on these concepts though, and I wasn't hugely involved in the making of the meteors, sorry :/

 

On 10/16/2022 at 2:36 AM, Gregor said:

 I couldn't reproduce the bomb icon glitch. I used DSDA with OpenGL and kept the jump button depressed for 30min in Map01. I don't remember if i had anything else set differently when it originally happened.

 

I'm going to tentatively mark that down as a success, at least in that you can jump around and take your time with the levels now.

[Gregor]

Ok, so i don't know how you're supposed to get into the room containing the flame in Map04. I know that there's a block that is supposed to lower to reveal a gap that lets you jump over to a wall with a metal texture that you can lower. But it doesn't work. I looked at it in UDB and the linedef that triggers the block is hidden behind a block inside a voodoo closet, but that block (with the tag 1111) cannot lower. No linedef has the same tag. I don't see how this is supposed to work.

 

Ok, i got it. It's MBF's damn LineEffect things that trigger it only once you picked up all large gems in the level. Well, well. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Gregor

[Gregor]

On 6/5/2022 at 2:10 AM, Ar_e_en said:

 

All the jumping is done by shooting an invisible projectile behind you that preforms an Archvile attack on you. Also, I was a bit wrong on the key-gem system - apparently it doesn't need a melee state to detect you, it just needs a TOUCHY flag in the bit field!

How do you know that the projectile is shot BEHIND the player?? I can't see anything in Whacked4 that would indicate that.

[Ravendesk]

37 minutes ago, Gregor said:

How do you know that the projectile is shot BEHIND the player?? I can't see anything in Whacked4 that would indicate that.

I think it just spawns in the same place, so when you jump without moving you just jump upwards. And when you move, it automatically stays behind you.

You don't really need a projectile to perform a vile attack on yourself, btw, I have tried and done that with just pistol states, but it becomes a bit more finicky.

If you are going to dive deeper into how this dehacked works, I would love to hear more details myself.

 

[Gregor]

Does anyone know what the purpose is of this switch in Map06?

 

 

It's in the wall on the eastern end of the walkway above the Arch-Vile's starting room. It lowers this ledge behind you with the four small gems on it.

 

 

The thing is: this switch is only revealed after you either kill the Arch-Vile or reach the western library where the exit door is located. But once you do either of those things, the ledge with the switch is no longer reachable. Neither is the room above from where you drop down the wooden chute to the area with the crazy round-the-corner jumps involving the Evil Eye. So what's the purpose of having this switch in the level? Once it opens up, you can no longer reach the location with the gems anyways. So the only way you're gonna get them is by collecting them earlier with a little help from Mr Flames. So the switch is useless, right?

 

[Gregor]

It looks like the third teleport location for the flame in Map03 is unreachable without idclip. The two in the south are no problem, but as far as i can see, there is no way to reach the high up platform at the western edge of the map that has the third possible teleport location for the flame on it. The room behind it seems like it should give you access to that ledge, but all the jumps, save the first, are impossible to complete even with SR50 due to the platforms being far too high. Could this be an oversight on Ribbiks' part perhaps? Maybe he forgot to put a lift in there or change the sector heights of some of these platforms...

 

 

EDIT: I stand corrected.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Gregor

[Gregor]

On 10/12/2022 at 6:05 AM, akolai said:

@Dimon12321 the 555X tags are flame spawns: at the start of each map, they randomly pick one to spawn at. all are reachable, some are just a bit crazy

Well, the third spawn point for the flame in Map03, the one at the western edge of the map, is unreachable as far as i can see. If you know of a way to reach it, please share. I'm writing a walkthrough for the Doomwiki right now, and don't know what to do with this part.

[akolai]

@Gregor here's a video of me grabbing that flame.

Spoiler

 

These are all very precise, I believe the third jump is even frame perfect (at least with my setup), but all possible. I play in 16:10 so these setups may look different if you try this yourself. Let me know if there are any others giving you trouble.

[Gregor]

7 hours ago, akolai said:

@Gregor here's a video of me grabbing that flame.

  Hide contents

 

These are all very precise, I believe the third jump is even frame perfect (at least with my setup), but all possible. I play in 16:10 so these setups may look different if you try this yourself. Let me know if there are any others giving you trouble.

Wow. Very nicely done. Turns out my routing through that room was completely wrong. I had gotten the first jump inside the room before and knew that the second was possible. But after that i was sure i had to jump to the big block to the west; which is impossible from there. I didn't realize you could jump across the room to the small steps in the southern wall. that changes everything. i just tried it myself and got all the way to the top; with plenty of saves obviously ;)

Thank you so much for help. I had given up on that room being solvable.

[Gregor]

8 hours ago, akolai said:

 Let me know if there are any others giving you trouble.

I'll gladly take you up on that. :)

In Map06 i can't figure out how to get to the flame spot on the eastern side of the map right next to the square wooden structure. Maybe a jump from the small steps is it but i couldn't get it.

[akolai]

5 minutes ago, Gregor said:

the flame spot on the eastern side of the map

That one's a vile jump. You can lure him down these steps:

Spoiler

 

[Gregor]

57 minutes ago, akolai said:

That one's a vile jump. You can lure him down these steps:

  Hide contents

 

Well... that works. Seriously, that's pretty evil. Never would have figured that one out. Mr Flames is more useful than i'd thought.

Curiously, the Arch-Vile doesn't survive very long in the snow. It gets hit by the snowflakes while charging up to hit you but than switches to hit itself because the Zombiemen have the NOBLOCKMAP flag set; so they can't be targeted. So it defaults to hit itself instead. Sad.

 

So on All Snow you don't get a lot of tries to get the jump done, if any at all. I thought that's the purpose for the wooden structure right next to the flame spot. To shelter the poor Arch-Vile from the snow, but, unfortunately, it can't get up the steps. So it's left to kill itself in the snow. How sad.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Gregor

[Ravendesk]

23 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Curiously, the Arch-Vile doesn't survive very long in the snow. It gets hit by the snowflakes while charging up to hit you but than switches to hit itself because the Zombiemen have the NOBLOCKMAP flag set; so they can't be targeted. So it defaults to hit itself instead. Sad.

 

So on All Snow you don't get a lot of tries to get the jump done, if any at all. I thought that's the purpose for the wooden structure right next to the flame spot. To shelter the poor Arch-Vile from the snow, but, unfortunately, it can't get up the steps. So it's left to kill itself in the snow. How sad.

Oh, that's very interesting.

So desyncs are actually possible between difficulty settings on map 06...

[Gregor]

21 minutes ago, Ravendesk said:

Oh, that's very interesting.

So desyncs are actually possible between difficulty settings on map 06...

Yeah, the snowflakes themselves don't do any damage, but they do still register as hits; so they will trigger the Archi's pain state from time to time. And while it never charges up to hit the Zombiemen directly, it will still switch targets while charging up to hit you and then hit itself.

 

I'm not actually sure if this is because of the NOBLACKMAP flag...

Edited October 27, 2022 by Gregor

[Gregor]

@akolai while we're on the topic of Map06: do you perhaps know of a way to get to the switch up in the Archi's room as i described in my earlier post?