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Csucskos

The Descent - Second slaughterish map (Epsilon build)

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Posted (edited)

Hi! I'm back!

 

So I started this map about a year ago but had some different projects so I never finished it. But I'm back at developing it. (So if it's familiar that's maybe because I've posted an earlier iteration but this is the latest build.)

 

This is a slaughter map of some sort but the main focus is on the story/atmosphere, my goal was to make a believable architecture while maintaining big fights.

 

The map is unfair and so far only UV is implemented. Tested in GZDoom. The map slot is 02 since the story is the continuation of my first wad, maybe I'll merge them but that depends whether I make more maps. No freelook/no jump/no crouch intended. The music is from the game Descent (original composers: Ken Allen, Brian Luzietti, Larry Peacock, Leslie Spitzer, Jim Torres and Tim Wiles and it's an MP3).

 

Screenshots:

Spoiler

Desc1.png.f43ddb879b1142143457e541522d45e3.pngDesc2.png.51df77b22dfaba40d6dfea3dae27000c.png

 

Map:

 

 

 

The Descent.zip

Edited by Csucskos : Caves and cliffs update

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Hey, your map is done in Hexen format, and as such isn't supported by ports other than GZDoom. Still, it looks like a pretty ambitious, surprised there isn't more people interested in this.

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Thanks for your comment. Yeah, I know it was done in Hexen format but I did not use any scripts or 3D floors or slopes or whatnot and thought it could be run in other sourceports. I honestly don't know why noone cared but I've posted an earlier build last fall and it gathered attention. I did not want to just continue that thread because it was dead since than and was hoping a new topic would yield better results. (The old one was full of the complaints about problems which I appreciate but they are - hopefully - not present anymore and I did not want to confuse people about the current state of the map.) But it's not like I care that much, I have to implement different difficulties anyways and then the reviews gonna start flowing in. And if nothing happens after that I can still hit up a few testers hoping they will give their precious time to review it.

 

But it's already fully playable on UV so feel free to give it a shot. :)

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How does this track work? I can't start with anything. The base of doom 2 comes in only.

 

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25 minutes ago, Babos said:

How does this track work? I can't start with anything. The base of doom 2 comes in only.

 

It occupies map slot 2. So either you beat map 1 or just type "idclev02" :D

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Yeah I mean, it's a weird solution, but it's good to know thanks.

 

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27 minutes ago, Babos said:

Yeah I mean, it's a weird solution, but it's good to know thanks.

 

I know, but that's the only way I know so I can later compile the maps into a megawad. Sorry for your inconvenience.

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Yes it is very good if you put it together, chillax 1 fits precisely because of its difficulty. As I’ve seen, quite a few of these tracks have come together lately which can be put into it.

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10 hours ago, Babos said:

Yes it is very good if you put it together, chillax 1 fits precisely because of its difficulty. As I’ve seen, quite a few of these tracks have come together lately which can be put into it.

And does this mean you enjoyed my map?

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Posted (edited)

I can see the difficulty settings are not implemented. I'm fine with that, even if I can not complete it. And I could not complete it, hence, no video recording.

First and foremost: Texturing. Basic texturing is the first thing you need to learn.

 

Flats: Textures that are used on the floors.

Textures: Textures suitable for walls.

Seperator textures: Support 3, Support 2, Metal

Seperator flats: Ceil 4-1, Ceil 5-2, Flat 19

 

Step textures: Step 1-6, Steplad, Steptop, Metal, Lite 3, Lite5 Liteblu4. In mapping formats that allow flat usage as textures(UDMF/Hexen/Anything else not mentioned), you can also use: Ceil 4-1, Ceil 5-2, Flat 19 for steps. There are more flats and textures that can be used for steps, but those are the main ones I've been using.


The reason I'm telling you this: You fail to use elevation to account for the texture change. If the texture changes, the elevation of the floor, and most of the time, ceilings also should change. In your level, it does Not happen.

When the wall texture changes, there is usually a door, a seperator texture, or even both (E1M1 for example of that) between the textures. It is visible in most of hell levels (The Living End for example), where they use different textures or elevations, or both to seperate 2 rooms that have different textures.

 

Balance wise: 

HMP needs a couple of more stimpacks here and there, notably right before the large imp chapel, and after the revenant fight in the rocket launcher room.


I did not get past the arch vile+revenants throne room, as I ran out of ammunition on HMP, despite pistoling the imps in the previous rooms. 

 

It is an improvement over your previous version, but it still needs a lot of updates and polish before release. And most of the community plays released maps.

 

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I know about the "Romero's designing rules", but I don't think one has to strictly follow them. And especially set textures. I understand that some textures just does not work as flats but I intentionally use unusual textures, I find the for example every tech map looks the same and not only because there are few textures but everyone utilizes them in the same way.

 

I don't understand how you ran out of ammo in that area, there's an armory room right next to it. But I'll do some more testing as there are some areas that prevent backtracking and if you forgot to stack up beforehand you may get in trouble. Thanks for the heads up!

 

On 6/26/2022 at 7:31 PM, IcarusOfDaggers said:

most of the community plays released maps. 

 

Yeah, that's likely but if my map was finished I'd not seek for other's opinion. So thank you for your feedback! :)

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Posted (edited)

The problem is, your texture work is off putting to say the least. And I'm not talking about just techbase, it's the same with caverns and every other environment, including open ones. 

It is okay to use the textures creatively, even out of place, as long as it gives a coherent feel of a place. 

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I was skeptical about how this map starts, some early fights felt aimless (which is fine for small incidental encounters, but not for slaughter scale) and too easy to skip, but eventually this map grew on me. It's wildly non-linear, longform and has a satisfying loopy flow. Later fights range from decent to pretty good, and thanks to all the backtracking opportunities I eventually 100% it. Texturing and detailing are very barebones. The jump from the cliff cave with specters and cacos and lost souls is quite problematic if you play without infinite height fix (so it would be fine by default in GZDoom, but not in other ports, and not in GZDoom configured to other compatibility modes).

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28 minutes ago, Vrhrlv said:

I was skeptical about how this map starts, some early fights felt aimless (which is fine for small incidental encounters, but not for slaughter scale) and too easy to skip, but eventually this map grew on me. It's wildly non-linear, longform and has a satisfying loopy flow. Later fights range from decent to pretty good, and thanks to all the backtracking opportunities I eventually 100% it. Texturing and detailing are very barebones. The jump from the cliff cave with specters and cacos and lost souls is quite problematic if you play without infinite height fix (so it would be fine by default in GZDoom, but not in other ports, and not in GZDoom configured to other compatibility modes).

Thanks! I was sure I added monsterblocking linedefs to prevent such blocking but will doublecheck. Texturing is in a weird state I fully textured some places but others just got their first pass to remove all basic textures. And detailing ... well I haven't even started that because I'm lazy. I know that is the final stretch from 90% to 100% but that takes a painstaking amount of time. I wonder which fights you are referring to, because to be fair I think all of them are quite stupid. My one goal is to prevent circlestrafe = win strategy but it's hard because this results in mostly door fights. And I also used my best ideas in my Lair of Evil map so that's that. (On the non-linear nature, how? I only intended 3 linear routes which eventually interweave. But in the previous build people all got lost so I restricted it into a main road and two hidden passages.) But anyways I'm glad you enjoyed!

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Quote

which fights you are referring to

 

I think the first prison fight works pretty well, also I liked the big fight with 3 cyberdemons.

Archvile room fights were fine too, I think it would benefit from archie being more active though.

 

Quote

(On the non-linear nature, how? I only intended 3 linear routes which eventually interweave. But in the previous build people all got lost so I restricted it into a main road and two hidden passages.) But anyways I'm glad you enjoyed!

 

Well, that was my impression! I died and loaded game few times and after picking the other way every time I felt I'm on completely different track and wasn't able to get to previous areas until the very end of the level. When I first reached the exit I had 2 keys out of 3, and it took me few laps around the level to get the last one and kill the rest of the monsters.

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On 6/28/2022 at 8:46 PM, Vrhrlv said:

I think it would benefit from archie being more active though. 

Well, I wanted to portray him as a boss, but it seems he is much less active while being in such a tight space :/

 

On 6/28/2022 at 8:46 PM, Vrhrlv said:

When I first reached the exit I had 2 keys out of 3, and it took me few laps around the level to get the last one and kill the rest of the monsters.

I designed such that you can exit with any 2 keys. But I'm also a maximalist so made some opportunities to kill every missed monster.

 

Made tiny differences between the difficulty settings all is left is further balancing and detailing... if I ever come around and have the mental strength to start it. ;)

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