are doom secret maps cannon

[Shrekmeister]

i just played the secret wolfenstein maps in doom 2 and i wonder if the doom secret maps are cannon

[baja blast rd.]

100%

 

[SMG_Man]

all three of the original doom's secret maps show up in the first doom novel

this doesn't say anything about canonicity but I thought it was a neat touch lol

[Shrekmeister]

oh yeah one thing i think the secret exit at map15 in doom is a time teleporter and when doom guy enters it some demon are teleported too and the nazi ss shoot doomguy because they  think doomguy is some kinda allied soldier and the ss are not as painfull as in wolf3d because doomguy wear a space armor also in map32 in wolfenstein rpg is predicted that harbinger of doom ( cyberdemon ) would fight BJ descendant ( doomguy )

Edited June 20, 2022 by DENTYZ

[Doomkid]

couldn't agree more

[Captain POLAND]

I always just thought that the Wolfenstein maps took place in another part of Hell, and the Nazis went there after they died (because they were Nazis).

[Nevander]

Ultimate Doom secret maps are canon, as they appear on the intermission maps.

 

Doom 2 secret maps are NOT canon. It's pretty obvious it's a Wolf 3D Easter egg. Nothing more.

 

Final Doom... I guess so? Why not.

 

Doom 64, I say yes they are. Fun maps though, I'm going to say no. The style still fits though so they could be in there somewhere.

[Gez]

Doom is a game that is better appreciated if you keep it unencumbered by considerations of canonicity. Because really the purpose of Doom is to serve as a vehicle for third-party levels.

 

However, if we do succumb to the temptation of going all DEEP LORE on the adventures of Doomguy and Daisy, then I'd tend to agree with Nevander above with one caveat:

12 minutes ago, Nevander said:

Doom 64, I say yes they are. Fun maps though, I'm going to say no. The style still fits though so they could be in there somewhere.

IMO Hectic wouldn't count, and neither would the "fun levels" that are not part of the regular progression; but the other secret maps, the ones where you find the demon keys? Definitely canon.

 

For PSX Doom, one could argue Club Doom isn't canon, but the others are.

[ZeroTheEro]

cannon canons.

 

one is a big gun, the other is definitive story.

 

they both sink ships though.

[Shrekmeister]

1 hour ago, Nevander said:

Ultimate Doom secret maps are canon, as they appear on the intermission maps.

 

Doom 2 secret maps are NOT canon. It's pretty obvious it's a Wolf 3D Easter egg. Nothing more.

 

Final Doom... I guess so? Why not.

 

Doom 64, I say yes they are. Fun maps though, I'm going to say no. The style still fits though so they could be in there somewhere.

nah i think the doom 2 secret maps are cannon because i think the secret exit at map15 in doom is a time teleporter and when doom guy enters it some demon are teleported too and the nazi ss shoot doomguy because they  think doomguy is some kinda allied soldier and the ss are not as painfull as in wolf3d because doomguy wear a space armor also in map32 in wolfenstein rpg is predicted that harbinger of doom ( cyberdemon ) would fight BJ descendant ( doomguy )

[ZeroTheEro]

If I am going to be honest, WolfRPG shares it's own continuation with Doom II RPG.

[Frost-Core]

DUDE HELL YEAH THEY ARE!!! IT LITERALLY HAS A CYBERDEMON AND CYBERDEMONS HAVE CANNONS!!!

PROOF :

BOOTY VIEW :

Edited June 20, 2022 by Frost-Core

[Jaccident]

I don't think when they were making the wolfenstein levels they were thinking "how does this fit into the overall lore of doom?"

 

3 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

I always just thought that the Wolfenstein maps took place in another part of Hell, and the Nazis went there after they died (because they were Nazis). 

I like this idea though, there being a specific part of hell for nazis.

[Shrekmeister]

3 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

I always just thought that the Wolfenstein maps took place in another part of Hell, and the Nazis went there after they died (because they were Nazis).

then if the nazi already in hell then where they went after we killed them did they just respawn or what

[Jaccident]

2 minutes ago, DENTYZ said:

then if the nazi already in hell then where they went after we killed them did they just respawn or what 

You could ask the same about the rest of the monsters in doom tbf

[Shrekmeister]

5 minutes ago, Jaccident said:

You could ask the same about the rest of the monsters in doom tbf

i wonder where bad folk go when they die -doom 2 intermission story

[Hitboi]

I mean Commander Keen is the grandson of BJ Blazkowicz and Doomguy is the son of Commander Keen so that's possible.

But those secret maps are meant to be easter eggs, I just can't really believe Doomguy shooting at nazis is canon.
 

1 hour ago, DENTYZ said:

then if the nazi already in hell then where they went after we killed them did they just respawn or what

The game's name is Doom II: Hell on Earth, I don't exactly remember the story texts but to me map15 looks a normal city on Earth.

The Wolfenstein 3D theme doesn't look "hellish" enough to make players believe that it's hell.
Wolfentein 3D takes place on Earth, in Doom II why would it take place in hell?

[philcul]

6 hours ago, Captain POLAND said:

I always just thought that the Wolfenstein maps took place in another part of Hell, and the Nazis went there after they died (because they were Nazis).

 

This seems to be the case if you take a look at the intermission text (at least kindf of):

"Congratulations, you've found the secret level! Looks like it's been built by humans, rather than demons. You wonder who the inmates of this corner of hell will be."

The first sentence of course would point to an interpretation of non-canonicity, but everything else seems to line up with Captain POLAND's proposed interpretation. The place where we fight the Nazis is referred to as a "corner of hell" and they are called "inmates" which suggests that they aren't normal denizens of hell like imps and hell knights but regular nazi humans who were sent there after they died (because they were Nazis).

[Wahrnehmungskrieg]

It can be easily seen as canon and theres many clues. Doomguy has genetic memories of what trials&tribulations his great (etc) grandfather BJ Blazkowicz went thru escaping from Castle Wolfenstein. In Wolfenstein New Order, the secret levels (also set in Wolf 3D) are called 'nightmares' and so Doomguy must be having one of these as well: but a waking one, and influenced by 1) the hot volcanic air (think Oracle of Delphi) entering his nose as he reaches the secret exit; 2) the fact that Doomguy hasn't slept a wink since being on Phobos and has likely been strung out on berserk packs & soulspheres for more than 70/80 consecutive hours. But it is chiefly the hot volcanic air that is the trigger.

 

Because the nightmare is still Doomguy's nightmare and not Blazkowicz's, that's why we see demons in the level instead of having the full roster of guards, why the level scale is different from in 3D, why we see a cybie instead of Grosse, why Doomguy has a vision of another of his ancestors Billy Blaze, and why floor 1's secret goes to floor 9 and not 10.

 

I argue against the secret levels being an actual part of hell, because it would be a massive cock-up for hell to have an almost unguarded back entrance to itself when they spent all their budget on Doomguy seeing the cybie/mastermind fight before he goes in proper.

[Kinsie]

To quote original Half-Life series writer Marc Laidlaw: Canon itself is non-canon.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

I really miss the days when I could read about entertainment without coming across arguments about what's considered canon in a series with a plot that the creators probably thought about for a grand total of two-and-a-half minutes.

 

I fully expect to open up Pornhub (that's what I heard it's called) one day and see people debating in the comments about whether or not Big Booty Lovers 5 is canon to Big Booty Lovers 2.

[The BMFG]

[7Mahonin]

Why does it matter, honestly? I just don’t get it. Why does anyone even care about what is and isn’t canon anyways? Doom’s storyline is so thin that it lets the player interpret things for themselves how they see fit. 

[Stupid Bunny]

Are Doom secret maps cannon?

No, they are not cannon. They are level

 

Oh, I mean, are they canon? Like does Doomguy actually go there?

If you throw the secret exit switch, then yes

 

But then where does he go? How does he end up fighting Nazis?

Well if we’re running with this then the game suggests that, like others have said, it’s just part of Hell where the Nazis ended up. I guess they really enjoyed having their asses kicked by BJ the first time because the area they build is almost identical to their castle on earth. This is backed up by the fact that it has the sky from Hell and not earth. Besides which, Hell in Doom has weirder more out-of-place shit than castles full of tiny SS men with bad aim

 

But what kind of canon is that? That doesn’t make a lot of sense.

The fact that Doomguy is supposedly in the same canon as Commander Keen suggests that John Romero and Tom Hall are dorks who thread all this shit together for no reason other than lulz

 

Where do bad folks go when they die?

They don’t go to heaven where the angels fly 

[Shrekmeister]

4 hours ago, Stupid Bunny said:

Are Doom secret maps cannon?

No, they are not cannon. They are level

 

Oh, I mean, are they canon? Like does Doomguy actually go there?

If you throw the secret exit switch, then yes

 

But then where does he go? How does he end up fighting Nazis?

Well if we’re running with this then the game suggests that, like others have said, it’s just part of Hell where the Nazis ended up. I guess they really enjoyed having their asses kicked by BJ the first time because the area they build is almost identical to their castle on earth. This is backed up by the fact that it has the sky from Hell and not earth. Besides which, Hell in Doom has weirder more out-of-place shit than castles full of tiny SS men with bad aim

 

But what kind of canon is that? That doesn’t make a lot of sense.

The fact that Doomguy is supposedly in the same canon as Commander Keen suggests that John Romero and Tom Hall are dorks who thread all this shit together for no reason other than lulz

 

Where do bad folks go when they die?

They don’t go to heaven where the angels fly 

i think the ultimate doom ones are cannon Doom 64 cannon and i think the theory that the wolfenstein maps take place in another area of hell also i think when bad folk die i think its just emptyness or a hell hell for demon

[Murdoch]

I actually like the idea of the Nazis being so evil that bits of their structures were pulled into Hell completely, dooming them to patrol the same halls for eternity. The levels would have been better if bits of hell architecture were corrupting the walls in places.

[Captain POLAND]

28 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

I actually like the idea of the Nazis being so evil that bits of their structures were pulled into Hell completely, dooming them to patrol the same halls for eternity. The levels would have been better if bits of hell architecture were corrupting the walls in places.

 

Well there was a secret Hellish room in MAP31.