What are the worst kinds of Metal fans?

[QuaketallicA]

On 6/28/2022 at 12:33 PM, OpenRift said:

I mean I'm more of a Venom's Black Metal person myself, but yeah Candlemass's debut album's pretty good too. 

 

I'll agree that the best metal of the 90s was the more underground stuff, as goes for most things. Underground/deep cuts are always better and more interesting.

 

The Candlemass debut is more doom metal i.e. Sabbath-inspired than it is a spawn of Venom. Yeah it is a pretty good album, but c'mon, best album of all time? Hardly. Not even the best album of 1986 in metal's underground, let alone mainstream bands.

 

On 6/28/2022 at 12:44 PM, Doomkid said:

The internet’s general obsession with shitting on metal lovers is so tiresome by now. Here’s a thought, if you don’t like a certain behaviour, be the bigger person rather than getting down in the dirt with someone else to “prove” how “bad and wrong” they are.

 

Statistics show those are likely 99% teenagers and children. Including those over the age of 18.

 

15 hours ago, Kinsie said:

It's kind of interesting how fluid the definition can be and how bands can bounce back and forth across the line as taste dictates. Metallica are probably the most obvious example with their bouncing from thrash to radio-friendly hard-rock and back again, but I'm sure there are other examples. Turns out the old saying's wrong. You can go home again.

 

Anyway, here's a band I saw last month. I dunno what the Official Genre Definition By Genreologists is but they kick and the vocalist can belt out a note.

 

Tell me about your badass locals, preciouses.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa Metallica as radio-friendly hard rock? 

 

Well ok fair that's true I have heard some stuff off of Load and obviously Black getting airplay on the radio, but Metallica were never not-metal. Load and Reload harken back to a more 70s metal sound melded with then-contemporary 90s grunge, and possibly a pinch of country. 

 

To me, "hard rock" and "heavy metal" are practically the same thing. It's like "speed metal" vs "thrash metal." For all intents and purposes, they're interchangeable synonyms. Maybe I have a looser definition than some people, but to me heavy metal was first defined by the kind of distorted riffs played by Jimmy Page, Ritchie Blackmore, and Tony Iommi. Anything from there outward is metal. So AC/DC and KISS are kind of in that too. Maybe more on the border, but still. 

 

Also, sick band! Sounds kind of Alice in Chains-inspired. The vocals remind me of 21st Century Schiziod Man.

[Lippeth]

I'm going to step outside for a while. Possibly take a shower.

 

Usually I ignore these types of threads or roll my eyes and move on, but this one is starting to affect my mood and it will just eat at me if I don't at least say something. Thanks internet forum, this thread is the exact thing it's complaining about, what else could I expect?

Edited June 28, 2022 by Lippeth

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

32 minutes ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

Deadbeat Dad? How about traveler from another dimension? Metallica didn't even exist in 1979. Lars was probably still playing tennis or something.

Just like Freddie Mercury performing from afterlife in 1995, the funniest part is that this kind of person gives off really unlikely times/dates, either as a result of advancing Alzheimer, or they are just really making shit up. 

[Kinsie]

21 minutes ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa Metallica as radio-friendly hard rock? 

 

Well ok fair that's true I have heard some stuff off of Load and obviously Black getting airplay on the radio, but Metallica were never not-metal. Load and Reload harken back to a more 70s metal sound melded with then-contemporary 90s grunge, and possibly a pinch of country. 

I'm not gonna debate genre semantics all day, but I don't think it'd be unfair to say that Load and Reload are a different animal than past and present. You could probably combine those two albums into one real good one ala Black Album, but nobody can agree on which tracks get the flick, which is fascinating...

 

I saw some friends discussing the non-album tracks Metallica put out after the Loads (I Disappear, No Leaf Clover, Minus Human) and wondering what they could have been like if they went down that slightly proggier path instead of having a full-band breakdown as depicted in Some Kind Of Monster... a fascinating what-if I hope some young bucks explore.

[OpenRift]

15 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

The Candlemass debut is more doom metal i.e. Sabbath-inspired than it is a spawn of Venom. Yeah it is a pretty good album, but c'mon, best album of all time? Hardly. Not even the best album of 1986 in metal's underground, let alone mainstream bands.

I'm not saying Candlemass is a spawn of Venom, I'm just saying I'm more into Venom in general because I prefer that speed metal/proto-thrash/first-wave black metal kind of sound that they have. It's just so intoxicatingly good... 

 

On 6/28/2022 at 12:44 PM, Doomkid said:

The internet’s general obsession with shitting on metal lovers is so tiresome by now. Here’s a thought, if you don’t like a certain behaviour, be the bigger person rather than getting down in the dirt with someone else to “prove” how “bad and wrong” they are.

If anything the sentiment is more about shitting on gatekeepers than anything else. I started the thread off criticizing people who try and gatekeep thrash metal. I mean some people will twist it their own way but that's the internet. Not much one can do about that I suppose.

 

On 6/28/2022 at 1:04 PM, Arsinikk said:

I'll be that guy and say that my favourite kind of genre is metal mixed with electronics...

  

And so I'm used to metalheads saying that the music I listen to "isn't real music" and/or is shit.

imo I think metal infused with electronic can be either really good or just kind of mediocre. I think Doom 2016 and Eternal's soundtracks are a good example. Doom 2016's soundtrack is brutal and uses electronic sound really well and contributes to the atmosphere a lot more. Eternal on the other hand while not exactly terrible just feels a lot more slapped together and just forgettable (there are some exceptions to this but "The Only Thing They Fear is You" honestly isn't that good of a track compared to some of the others).

[Naarok0fkor]

2 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

Well where would you draw the line? What's the least extreme metal band you'd still consider to be a heavy metal group?

Poison?

[OpenRift]

On 6/28/2022 at 1:43 PM, Jello said:

I like Slayer :'(

 

I mean I really do, they're probably my favorite metal band; but I don't really listen to that many metal bands anyway. However it is one of the few genres that I can generally just listen to metal and be okay with whatever comes up. Kind of the same with punk. But yeah, wouldn't call myself a metalhead by any stretch. As such, I don't really get that irritated by metal fans in general, although it does kind of make my eye twitch when they argue that whatever band you like isn't obscure enough. Especially when they start getting into "who knows the most obscure metal band in the most obscure sub-sub-sub genre".

 

Them: Have you ever heard Y'gglaglin Mithronexus Scrotius et Unum? Yeah, nobody has, they haven't even heard themselves. They poured liquid metal into their ears before they even recorded their first album, which was pressed onto a master made of the ashes of unbaptized babies, which promptly blew away in a foul, sulfurous wind.

 

Me: I think Reign in Blood is a really enjoyable album.

I find myself like half-way between you and them really. Like I do enjoy some lesser known bands like Exciter or Overkill, but obscurity just as a gimmick is just kind of stupid. 

 

On 6/28/2022 at 2:12 PM, map11has2names said:

it sounds to me like you got called a gatekeeper 3 hours ago, and you're real torn up about it. so now you made a post on here trying to cover up your tracks and be like "man, don't you guys hate these assholes?"

why don't you just make a thread talking about semi-obscure metal? it's not a big deal.

Are you talking to me or someone else? Also three hours ago I think I was still in bed. Nice Cliff pfp btw, may he rest in peace.

 

On 6/28/2022 at 2:45 PM, SiMpLeToNiUm said:

I don't like when people downtalk the potential importance of subgenres and classification as excess pedantry, elitism, pretentiousness, etc. It can be really helpful to place the sound you're hearing to get a deeper understanding of not only the music you're listening to, but the body of metal history that spawned and inspired it. It really helps me get a more rich and nuanced tapestry towards not only metal sounds, but I've expanded the concept to other stuff I listen to and consume as well. It makes it much easier to find the things you like and get that deep appreciation for the artistry and technicalities of what you're consuming. Goes for lots of other things too, not just music and certainly not just metal, either.

Agree 100%. Classification is important, that's why we play oldschool FPS games like Doom and not modern garbage like Call of Gun(TM).

 

15 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

 

Well where would you draw the line? What's the least extreme metal band you'd still consider to be a heavy metal group?

I mean, on wikipedia none of the genres listed for them are metal. I don't really listen to Styx, but I can make an educated guess that they're far enough from any genre of metal that the only people that would call them metal are people who don't listen to metal at all. Same kind of people who call Nickleback and Ghost metal.

 

15 hours ago, Kinsie said:

It's kind of interesting how fluid the definition can be and how bands can bounce back and forth across the line as taste dictates. Metallica are probably the most obvious example with their bouncing from thrash to radio-friendly hard-rock and back again, but I'm sure there are other examples. Turns out the old saying's wrong. You can go home again.

  

Anyway, here's a band I saw last month. I dunno what the Official Genre Definition By Genreologists is but they kick and the vocalist can belt out a note.



 

Tell me about your badass locals, preciouses.

This is very, very grunge (with maybe a little bit of groove metal). Like this reminds me so much of AiC (but not as good of vocals) it kind of hurts.

[magicsofa]

2 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

To me, "hard rock" and "heavy metal" are practically the same thing.

 

Hard rock is a much wider genre that includes things that are definitely not metal. It encompasses punk, math, prog, jazz... pretty much anything that is heavy enough to not be soft rock, is hard rock. Even poppy stuff like Blink 182 sits on the side of hard rock, despite the bubblegum vocals it's punchy enough to offend your grandmother. It's not a very high bar, which people maybe forget because they raise their own bar of what's "hard enough" for them. But there's other classifications like hardcore-, -metal, or -punk to imply more intensity.

P.S. y'all need to learn about that multiquote button

[smeghammer]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

 

The ONLY true metal band is of course

 

MANOWAR!!!

Seriously though, everyone has different tastes, and just because someone likes something you don't, or you like something that someone else does not, really doesn't matter.

 

Just be thankful that rock/metal/thrash or whatever are still around and doing well, and that there IS such a diversity of styles.

 

People can be arseholes regardless of what they like or don't, and someone can like the exact same music you do, and STILL be an arsehole, so pidgeonholing someone based purely on what music they like, or don't, is divisive.

 

[OpenRift]

2 hours ago, Lippeth said:

I'm going to step outside for a while. Possibly take a shower.

  

Usually I ignore these types of threads or roll my eyes and move on, but this one is starting to affect my mood and it will just eat at me if I don't at least say something. Thanks internet forum, this thread is the exact thing it's complaining about, what else could I expect?

Dude, chill out. I'll say again, nobody's at each other's throats. If you disagree you disagree, it's whatever. 

[unerxai]

Some of the most elitist and pretentious music listeners are metal fans, but it doesn't matter. You just have to learn to ignore people when it's not worth it. Especially when it comes to the internet, you may be arguing with a 13 year old and you don't even know it.

[Lippeth]

2 hours ago, Lippeth said:

Usually I ignore these types of threads or roll my eyes and move on, but this one is starting to affect my mood and it will just eat at me if I don't at least say something.

 

[Koko Ricky]

There's an elitist, moronic, toxic side to metal fans that I absolutely detest. Some of these folks

 

• Are gatekeepers for whichever genre they think is objectively the best, shitting on anything that doesn't meet their criteria 
• Are stuck in high school mode and still call people/things they don't like "gay"
• Support fascism via national socialist black metal 
• Dismiss women in metal while not-so-secretly objectifying them 
• Equate popularity or a softer sound with selling out, despite not knowing the actual intent of the artists 
• Fixate on metal to the point of excluding most other music 
• Get weirdly racist about non-white people in metal 
• Reinforce toxic male stereotypes and lean heavily into misogynistic styles such as pornogrind or death metal that focuses on torturing women 
• Have a petty aversion to entire sub-genres merely because of the riffing techniques involved
• Dig albums that are derivative, over-compressed, quantized, and feature MIDI-replaced drums (despite the intent being to capture a live performance) which perpetuates cycles of bad music 
• Think it's socially acceptable to spin kick and karate chop at shows, which can (and sometimes does) cause serious injury
• Focus more on superficial elements like tempo, tuning or virtuosity than on the emotional impact of the music 

It's because of all that negativity that I've gone from being an outspoken headbanger to a closet fan.  

[OpenRift]

18 minutes ago, Koko Ricky said:

There's an elitist, moronic, toxic side to metal fans that I absolutely detest. Some of these folks

 

• Are gatekeepers for whichever genre they think is objectively the best, shitting on anything that doesn't meet their criteria 
• Are stuck in high school mode and still call people/things they don't like "gay"
• Support fascism via national socialist black metal 
• Dismiss women in metal while not-so-secretly objectifying them 
• Equate popularity or a softer sound with selling out, despite not knowing the actual intent of the artists 
• Fixate on metal to the point of excluding most other music 
• Get weirdly racist about non-white people in metal 
• Reinforce toxic male stereotypes and lean heavily into misogynistic styles such as pornogrind or death metal that focuses on torturing women 
• Have a petty aversion to entire sub-genres merely because of the riffing techniques involved
• Dig albums that are derivative, over-compressed, quantized, and feature MIDI-replaced drums (despite the intent being to capture a live performance) which perpetuates cycles of bad music 
• Think it's socially acceptable to spin kick and karate chop at shows, which can (and sometimes does) cause serious injury
• Focus more on superficial elements like tempo, tuning or virtuosity than on the emotional impact of the music 

It's because of all that negativity that I've gone from being an outspoken headbanger to a closet fan.  

Yeah these are definitively the worst kind of metal fans, hands down. 

 

7 hours ago, BigBoy91 said:

The dorks that say "no karate in the pit" with their dad rock battle vests.

Well just don't do karate in the pit lol

 

 

 

...imagine calling thrash metal dad rock

[rzh]

None of them, I met shitty people that were metalheads but that's because they were shitty people, not because they were metalheads.

I don't listen to metal at all and I don't vibe with the aesthetic but I have lots of metalhead friends.

[Lippeth]

1 hour ago, OpenRift said:

Dude, chill out. I'll say again, nobody's at each other's throats. If you disagree you disagree, it's whatever.

It's just that this thread perfectly illustrates what I dislike most in metal fans, and online communities in general.

I like you all, and mean no shade, but this thread just hit me all wrong today.

[jazzmaster9]

19 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

Woke: hating the Black Album because it's boring as shit besides three songs 

Thats actually a much more valid critique than "lol its not 320 bpm, thats pop music" which is far more prevalent 

[Azuris]

22 hours ago, Murdoch said:

Gatekeepers and the ones that say "no band a is not b metal they are obviously c metal" like it actually matters.

 

Elite Gatekeepers no matter the Genre.

Seen them on Metal Places, seen them on Techno Places.

 

But mostly those Folks are very welcoming People, at least here in Europe.

 

 

[TheFocus]

3 hours ago, OpenRift said:

Are you talking to me or someone else? Also three hours ago I think I was still in bed. Nice Cliff pfp btw, may he rest in peace.

i was talking to you. i should take back what i said, i sound like a complete asshole. also, thanks btw (RIP)

[GooberMan]

2 hours ago, OpenRift said:

...imagine calling thrash metal dad rock

Going by the contents of the comments in this thread, it's really not a stretch to call it "grandfather rock".

*ahem*
 

Whatever. Now that rona restrictions have eased, I'm hitting up concerts and festivals again. Graspop in Belgium the other week. Tuska in Finland this coming weekend. Finding people that match the stereotypes listed in this thread? It's difficult. We camped next to a bunch of early-20s French black metal fans at Graspop, entertaining discussions with them working out which bands they were the most passionate about.

 

Those stereotypes though. See, what you've got there is that people just don't like dicks. Take every stereotype listed here, you can quite easily apply it to hip hop. Or electronic music. Or how Boomers talk about The Beatles and Elvis Presley.

For the record: The mid 90s was a bangin' time for metal, just one that was kicked out of the mainstream (and to be clear, the alternative scene in the 90s was very mainstream). The Swedish melodeath scene dominated for a while (At The Gates, In Flames). The Norwegian black metal scene was hitting its peak. Sludge was becoming a thing, alongside the stoner rock scene (Acid Bath's first album is a GOAT). Korn redefined what could be done with metal (rubbing off almost immediately on Sepultura) and the influence their self-tilted album had can still be felt today. Fear Factory was pushing the electronic side due to having a legit industrial music legend involved on production. And of course everyone's favourite band Tool hit it big right as the post-grunge period was starting.

 

And the best thing to come out of metal in the last few years is Zeal & Ardor. They've gone from "pretty good" live to "must see" based on their recent performances.
 

 

[BigBoy91]

2 hours ago, OpenRift said:

Well just don't do karate in the pit lol

 

...imagine calling thrash metal dad rock

Found the "push mosh only" guy. 😁 No hard feelings buddy.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

About the karate on the moshpit debacle, I think it's entirely subjective to the kind of music being played.

If you are going to a death, thrash, or black metal or hardcore concert, well, people that goes there ARE willing to get violent, so it's better to just stay away from the mosh pit.
If you do karate in a Sonata Arctica concert, you deserve to have your mom called to come pick you up.

[Koko Ricky]

Sometimes they'll bring it out of the mosh pit, which I don't like. It makes it hard to find a safe spot at small venues. 

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

6 minutes ago, Koko Ricky said:

Sometimes they'll bring it out of the mosh pit, which I don't like. It makes it hard to find a safe spot at small venues. 

In such cases, just give them what they are asking for.

[Lippeth]

I've only seen the "Karate" thing from what was referred to in the mid 00s as the "hardcore" scene, and it never failed to start a fight when combining hardcore bands with metal bands at local shows. The hardcore kids wanted space to do that type of dancing but it conflicts with the closeness of moshing. I've never been to a hardcore only show, but it never went over well with metal crowds.

[QuaketallicA]

13 hours ago, OpenRift said:

I'm not saying Candlemass is a spawn of Venom, I'm just saying I'm more into Venom in general because I prefer that speed metal/proto-thrash/first-wave black metal kind of sound that they have. It's just so intoxicatingly good... 

 Hear, hear. Venom rock!

 

13 hours ago, OpenRift said:

imo I think metal infused with electronic can be either really good or just kind of mediocre. I think Doom 2016 and Eternal's soundtracks are a good example. Doom 2016's soundtrack is brutal and uses electronic sound really well and contributes to the atmosphere a lot more. Eternal on the other hand while not exactly terrible just feels a lot more slapped together and just forgettable (there are some exceptions to this but "The Only Thing They Fear is You" honestly isn't that good of a track compared to some of the others).

 r/unpopular opinion?

 

Eternal's soundtrack is miles better imo, but to each his own.

 

13 hours ago, OpenRift said:

Agree 100%. Classification is important, that's why we play oldschool FPS games like Doom and not modern garbage like Call of Gun(TM).

Hey man, a Doomer can like the 90s shooters and still like the modern shooters. Call of Duty got to its spot as top dog for good reason. It's a good game...just the same good game though since 2005.

 

13 hours ago, OpenRift said:

This is very, very grunge (with maybe a little bit of groove metal). Like this reminds me so much of AiC (but not as good of vocals) it kind of hurts.

Ikr, that's what I said.

 

12 hours ago, Koko Ricky said:

There's an elitist, moronic, toxic side to metal fans that I absolutely detest. Some of these folks

 

1. Are gatekeepers for whichever genre they think is objectively the best, shitting on anything that doesn't meet their criteria 
2. Are stuck in high school mode and still call people/things they don't like "gay"
3. Support fascism via national socialist black metal 
4. Dismiss women in metal while not-so-secretly objectifying them 
5. Equate popularity or a softer sound with selling out, despite not knowing the actual intent of the artists 
6. Fixate on metal to the point of excluding most other music 
7. Get weirdly racist about non-white people in metal 
8. Reinforce toxic male stereotypes and lean heavily into misogynistic styles such as pornogrind or death metal that focuses on torturing women 
9. Have a petty aversion to entire sub-genres merely because of the riffing techniques involved
10. Dig albums that are derivative, over-compressed, quantized, and feature MIDI-replaced drums (despite the intent being to capture a live performance) which perpetuates cycles of bad music 
11. Think it's socially acceptable to spin kick and karate chop at shows, which can (and sometimes does) cause serious injury
12. Focus more on superficial elements like tempo, tuning or virtuosity than on the emotional impact of the music 

It's because of all that negativity that I've gone from being an outspoken headbanger to a closet fan.  

 

1.  Never met this kind, but sure gatekeeping is dumb.
2. What's wrong with that? Even South Park made fun of this with the "Gays against fags" joke. It's not a pejorative against homosexuals, just a way of speaking
3. Like the population at large, an EXTREME minority not even worth mentioning
4. Um...yeah? What's wrong with objectifying women? Or men? A shit ton of 80s metal album covers are super-sexualized He-Mans with super-sexualized Wonder Womans. Hot people are hot! That should be celebrated and something to strive towards. This culture of "you're just ____ shaming" today is really stupid.
5. I'll agree with that one definitely. Tons of imo underrated albums from big artists that get shafted by a lot of dumb fans who reject them on the grounds that they happened to be different from the band's original sound.
6. Okay yeah, I agree
7. ...you making this up? Does that even exist?
8. Ew...again, that exists?
9. To be fair, that's just subjective tastes. Not ever flavor of metal is everyone's cup of tea. Took me a while to get into death metal. I definitely would not have liked it if it was a starting point for my entry to the genre.
10. "Dig albums that I don't like"?
11. Yeah that would suck
12. I'd hardly call virtuosity "superficial," but I agree with the sentiment. Emotional impact trumps all else, but just because something's shreddy doesn't mean it can't also be emotionally moving. And just because something is all pentatonic/blues licks doesn't mean it's easy or simple playing either.

Man that's sad. Metal is supposed to be like a brotherhood, a family of rockers. I'm sorry if you feel ashamed because of a bad minority. 

[xScavengerWolfx]

I don't really have an answer for this. 

[Doomkid]

Will some of you please chill with the 8 posts back-to-back? Double posting is annoying enough, let alone octuple-posting...

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

22 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Will some of you please chill with the 8 posts back-to-back? Double posting is annoying enough, let alone octuple-posting...

Reading through the last page here, I think the garbage truck is coming to pick up the flaming dumpster anyway. Why some people (not even new members) haven't realized that Doomworld isn't the place to debate about things like homophobia, racism, objectification, and fascism is beyond my comprehension.

[Doomkid]

To be fair, myself and most other DW staffers are frequently-objectified homosexual fascists, so I guess it's not too surprising such debates always end up happening on this video game forum.