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Gokuma

Freaking sick companies

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AndrewB: If all the big companies jump on this -- which it looks like many are doing/have done -- it will be hard to buy *new* non-conforming soft/hardware.

Like you said, they wouldn't be fully able to enforce it -- unless they formed some sort of new internet connection standard, in which case, any non-conforming internet users would be easy to catch.

Basically, free soft/hardware would have to go underground, become a black market thing. They'd be able to enforce it about as well as they enforce drug policy -- most slip through the cracks, while a few are crucified as examples.

Who the hell comes up with these bills, anyway? Whose side are these fuckers on? Eh... scratch that, don't answer, we don't need another lobbyism rant. :P

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Ultraviolet said:

AndrewB: If all the big companies jump on this -- which it looks like many are doing/have done -- it will be hard to buy *new* non-conforming soft/hardware.

Except that the hardware manufacturers will fight to the bone against it. They cannot legislate themselves a monopoly without having sufficient propoganda to convince the public that it's justified.

Like you said, they wouldn't be fully able to enforce it -- unless they formed some sort of new internet connection standard, in which case, any non-conforming internet users would be easy to catch.

But new standards cannot just be invented and then immediately thrust upon an unwanting society. Nobody is going to buy into a new internet infrastructure if their current systems don't support it.

Basically, free soft/hardware would have to go underground, become a black market thing. They'd be able to enforce it about as well as they enforce drug policy -- most slip through the cracks, while a few are crucified as examples.

But you can't compare it to drug policy. The war on drugs survives because society is dumb enough to accept the propoganda. What could they possibly say to convince society that the software, hardware, and internet we have now is killing people, ruining public health, threatening human life...? Society is dumb, but would have to be about 3 times as dumb to fall for something like that. There's too much opposition. It's totally infeasible and unrealistic.

Who the hint comes up with these bills, anyway? Whose side are these fishers on? Eh... scratch that, don't answer, we don't need another lobbyism rant. :P

Dumb, insane, impossible bills surface all the time. The only reason this is so widely discussed is because it would affect internet users more than a "mandatory monthly torture for Jews" bill. Also consider the fact that it's even if passed, such laws would be completely unenforcable.

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The problem with this all is that there are millions, if not billions, of software that doesn't comply with TCP. Most of those are private companies and indivdual people. These people generally make most of the software made by companies today. Cut them out of the picture, you just lost the economy.

Ultraviolet said:

Who the hell comes up with these bills, anyway? Whose side are these fuckers on? Eh... scratch that, don't answer, we don't need another lobbyism rant. :P

The bill was proposed by ignorant faggots.

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How can one legally force computer manufacturers to include such a thing in their hardware?

The only thing they can really achieve is to lob the US off the data race since the bill will probably not be globally enforcable.

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I hope like Hell something like this never comes to pass. It would be a horrible infringement on our rights if it ever did.

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well, in this world, there are hackers, and they can eaisally find a way around such bullshit. Thank god for them.

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kain said:

well, in this world, there are hackers, and they can eaisally find a way around such bullshit. Thank god for them.

Yeah, and probably somewhere in Europe there will be some company that starts making computers without the new chips in them. Kinda like Linux is to Windows. :P

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You cannot criminalize a large body of people or material. It's neither possible nor practical, and driving it underground just makes the problems worse, creating a criminal market and leading to an "arms race" of sorts between enforcers and pushers. Look at prohibition; look at the drug war; look at prostitution; look at music piracy.

Of course, the problem with discussing issues like this on an Internet forumis the whole "preaching to the choir" thing...

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i dont see this coming true. however there is an area were it IS true, automotive. many compaines buy up, bully or make legal threats to people who really find ways other than gas, or better ways of useing it. my grandfather knew a guy who made a new type of fule injector that cut his gas use by 1 third. the comapny found this out and took his car that he had put it in, they also searched his office and with a warrent his home. he was told never to speak of it or build the thing agian.

so he did what i would, left the US to sell his idea. He returned home and got a research job with the government. so honestly if i was to invent something i might think twice about building it in america.

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/me reads
/me vomits blood

GOOD GOD! This is fucking unconstitutional! It represses freedom of speech and design! If this bill passes, I am becoming a Console whore!

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Submerge said:

/me reads
/me vomits blood

GOOD GOD! This is fucking unconstitutional! It represses freedom of speech and design! If this bill passes, I am becoming a Console whore!

The irony.

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IMJack said:

You cannot criminalize a large body of people or material. It's neither possible nor practical, and driving it underground just makes the problems worse, creating a criminal market and leading to an "arms race" of sorts between enforcers and pushers. Look at prohibition; look at the drug war; look at prostitution; look at music piracy.

When did you change your attitude on the drug war?

Of course, the problem with discussing issues like this on an Internet forumis the whole "preaching to the choir" thing...

I'd rather preach to the choir than preach to the, umm, opposite of the choir...

It's much nicer to rant to people to who understand what you're saying than people who are... well, you know the rest.

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The war on drugs is a complete and utter joke. It's just a show to control our perspective of what's good and bad and make us think they're doing something about it. We have special forces going after the drug traders in South America. When they were about to make a gigantic bust, they were literally told to look else where. Little or even sizable busts are a good demonstration while large busts hurt business. (BTW, several governments weould completely colapse if the entire drug trade was to altogether stop suddently.) And back in the 50's or 60's the CIA drastically flooded mainly black communities with drugs in the first place to weaken the Black Panthers and also other protesters. The actual government itself (mainly just republicans) still commits racism. During Ronald Regan's 8 year double term, he had Bill Cosby audited by the IRS four times since he was a good upstanding representative of blacks and of course they failed to get any dirt on him. Then black Haitians were turned away from polls in Florida during the 2000 presidential election when their names mysteriously disappeared from the registered voters list. I'm not even black and I hear about and notice this stuff.

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Fuck that. If this ever comes to pass, though, imagine the damage a hacker could do with a non-integrated computer. /me dr00ls

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Yeah, you have to speak their language.

If we could just make the politicians realise that they will make companies lose money and turn the initiative over to the chinese commies.

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AndrewB said:

Except that the hardware manufacturers will fight to the bone against it. They cannot legislate themselves a monopoly without having sufficient propoganda to convince the public that it's justified.
[/b]
why nnot? If it helps profits it will happen

But new standards cannot just be invented and then immediately thrust upon an unwanting society. Nobody is going to buy into a new internet infrastructure if their current systems don't support it.

of course they can, wlcome to america. EVer hear of the pentagon, or practically ALL serious technological development? They are ALWAYS introduced by market distortion, coercion, big buisines subsidy etc. even in the rare cases where its GOOD for society, let alone when it might increase state control and profits

But you can't compare it to drug policy. The war on drugs survives because society is dumb enough to accept the propoganda. What could they possibly say to convince society that the software, hardware, and internet we have now is killing people, ruining public health, threatening human life...? Society is dumb, but would have to be about 3 times as dumb to fall for something like that. There's too much opposition. It's totally infeasible and unrealistic.

you wish. Remember this is the CENTER of the PR industry, AND practically every industry in the world. anything can be forced upon people without their consent by mind control, this is standard knowledge and already a truism. I can already write theri arguments: "cyber terrorism" "unamerican or unpatriotic activity on the net" "economic effects of computer viruses" etc. its easy. try it.
[b]
Dumb, insane, impossible bills surface all the time. The only reason this is so widely discussed is because it would affect internet users more than a "mandatory monthly torture for Jews" bill. Also consider the fact that it's even if passed, such laws would be completely unenforcable.

Its not a law its a standard, there is a huge difference. How is the act unenforcable if every computer company goes along (and why wouldnt they? corporate collusion with other "approved" software companies and OEM's could make them BILLIONS quickly)? How are you going to avoid these effects if EVERY computer you buy is modified?

FOR THE FIORST TIME IN YOUR LIFE ANDREW B, YOUR NOT CYNICAL ENOUGH :) !

And Seproth has made an EXCELLENT point (surprise?), this has ALREADY happened to the car industry with devastating effects on all our lives and in fact the entire world.

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Gokuma said:

And back in the 50's or 60's the CIA drastically flooded mainly black communities with drugs in the first place to weaken the Black Panthers and also other protesters. The actual government itself (mainly just republicans) still commits racism. During Ronald Regan's 8 year double term, he had Bill Cosby audited by the IRS four times since he was a good upstanding representative of blacks and of course they failed to get any dirt on him. Then black Haitians were turned away from polls in Florida during the 2000 presidential election when their names mysteriously disappeared from the registered voters list. I'm not even black and I hear about and notice this stuff.


Man thats not even the half. How about the SOURCE of most cocaine, Coloumbia? Just take a wild guess at whos been funding the Cocaine trafficking, openly currupt terroris governments for years to fight a REAL drug war? Yeah, both the republican and democaratic administrations of the past 40 years (since Kennedy) in this country. Furhtermore, just guess whos responsible for eliminating all the third world aid and reforms that might help the starving peasants grow anything but illegal drugs? And then bomb them for trying to feed their children? Yup the Richest country in the world.

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Gokuma said:

Then black Haitians were turned away from polls in Florida during the 2000 presidential election when their names mysteriously disappeared from the registered voters list. I'm not even black and I hear about and notice this stuff.


Y'know what...my name mysteriously disappeared from the registered voters list last fall...and I even voted in 2000. when i went to vote last fall, i gave my name, they said i wansn't registered, I was like wtf?

shit...i think them damn helicoters are flying over my house again

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Aren't they going to face some serious lawsuits from persons who suddenly find their legally aqcuired hardware illegal?

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What's really scary is the long list of companies supporting and pushing for this shit.

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