Doom 3 or Doom 3: BFG Edition?

[jupiter_ex]

Good info. So that explains why some older games I have now on Steam don't have any achievements (I got into Steam really really late although I've been playing on PC since the 80s) though still doesn't explain why FEAR 2 released in 2009 doesn't have achievements but some strange in-game "awards" of its own. Hmmm, these guys at Monolith...

Anyway backer on topic: so the backup screens don't do nothing in Doom 3. Just like calling the earth fleet. Just like hurrying to marine command at the beginning. Etc etc etc

[BonciuADV]

7 hours ago, jupiter_ex said:

Good info. So that explains why some older games I have now on Steam don't have any achievements (I got into Steam really really late although I've been playing on PC since the 80s) though still doesn't explain why FEAR 2 released in 2009 doesn't have achievements but some strange in-game "awards" of its own. Hmmm, these guys at Monolith...

Anyway backer on topic: so the backup screens don't do nothing in Doom 3. Just like calling the earth fleet. Just like hurrying to marine command at the beginning. Etc etc etc

I once did an interesting playthrough where I could only save at those screens. I still get a reminder to save when I pass one of those.

[jupiter_ex]

Interesting condition. I'm thinking variations like only saving at the points in the game when:

- Sarge tells you to pick up the pace

- Betruger laughs or says "Making progress <etc> ?"

 

hmm.. thinking of others...

[invalidlain]

OG Doom 3. Easy. BFG has a lot of "improvements" (downgrades) that make the game significantly worse in my opinion, though I guess it's neat for a quick pick up and play replay option. Doom 3 is definitely a game where the two versions are highly divisive though, like Sonic Adventure and SADX, where people will argue for hours on whether or not the changes make the game worse or better. In my eyes, both of these games are better in their original forms.

[Kes Gaming YT]

On 9/17/2022 at 12:16 PM, BonciuADV said:

Too bad you can't 100% the achievements because nobody is playing multiplayer. Unless?

I imagine such a session could be arranged. ;)

[Herr Dethnout]

On 9/17/2022 at 12:16 PM, BonciuADV said:

Too bad you can't 100% the achievements because nobody is playing multiplayer. Unless?

Nobody:

Seriously, Nobody:

Please nobody should do this:

People how uses S.A.M. :

[jupiter_ex]

On 10/2/2022 at 9:11 PM, jupiter_ex said:

- Betruger laughs or says "Making progress <etc> ?"

 

all Betruger wanted was your friends anyway

 

[nathanB404]

as a person who has a xbox one. i played the doom 3 bfg edition. i'd say the bfg version is better because the graphics are touched up a bit to make the 18 year old game look somewhat up to standards. but i've heard their are some bugs and glitches that werent in the original. 

[Edward850]

1 hour ago, nathanB404 said:

i'd say the bfg version is better because the graphics are touched up a bit to make the 18 year old game look somewhat up to standards.

Yeah about that, they didn't touch the graphics at all. Same textures (though now in a GPU compressed format), same normal mapping, same lighting engine.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Edward850

[AmethystViper]

On 10/4/2022 at 1:36 AM, invalidlain said:

OG Doom 3. Easy. BFG has a lot of "improvements" (downgrades) that make the game significantly worse in my opinion, though I guess it's neat for a quick pick up and play replay option. Doom 3 is definitely a game where the two versions are highly divisive though, like Sonic Adventure and SADX, where people will argue for hours on whether or not the changes make the game worse or better. In my eyes, both of these games are better in their original forms.

Oddly enough I mentioned that it's sad that the "worst" version of Sonic Adventure is the one that's the most easily accessible nowadays instead of the original like BFG Edition is to Doom 3 in my own Steam review of the former. It's even more baffling that's only Steam that gets to have both the original Doom 3 + Resurrection of Evil and BFG Edition available in one package as of August 2022 meanwhile not even GOG gets to have the option of the original. I heard that it was because GOG don't offer CD keys yet they're perfectly fine with providing CD keys of Quake III Arena for its multiplayer features. It's also a shame there's no real "definitive" solution to fixing BFG Edition on PC unlike Sonic Adventure DX which was fortunate to have the blessings of SADX Mod Installer to restore the game much of it to its former Dreamcast glory thanks to its modding community while keeping the few genuine improvements DX has over the original Dreamcast version. CstDoom3BFG has helped fixed some of the problems that BFG Edition botched moreso than other source ports I've used in my opinion, but sadly it doesn't fix everything from what was still butchered in its version of Resurrection of Evil, it doesn't fix the gimped Nightmare! difficulty of the embedded classic Doom games, and it doesn't support the 2019 version of Doom 3. And to make matters worse for CstDoom3BFG, it seems like its developer has gone AWOL for over a year or two now and the source port has been left collecting dust (even though its source code is also included).

[Edward850]

5 minutes ago, AmethystViper said:

I heard that it was because GOG don't offer CD keys yet they're perfectly fine with providing CD keys of Quake III Arena for its multiplayer features.

It used to be the case that GOG had no key distribution method. Seemingly it does now as you mentioned but their system seems inflexible, so chucking up yet another key list and distribution method can indeed be too much friction.

Keeping in mind that Doom3 has been up on Steam since 2007, a game so early it has a sub 10000 ID. Nothing produces fear faster from a service engineer than cram legacy systems into new distribution methods.

[Kyka]

On 7/9/2022 at 4:12 AM, Lippeth said:

BFG has a few things going against it for me but ultimately they're both equally playable. Below are only a few of the most obvious differences, comparisons and opinions I can think of. Take them with a grain of salt because it's just my point of view.

• BFG Edition changes a few sounds, and generally has a more balanced sound mix than the original, but if any sound had more than five variations (most do), all but the first five are removed from the game.
• There are a few memorable set pieces and monster encounters from the original that are completely removed. Not replaced, not improved, but removed.
• BFG Edition doesn't allow you to skip cutscenes, and pauses the entire game to save, which is absolutely obnoxious.
• 120 fps is nice, but depending on your monitor you'll have constant screen tearing unless you use another program to force it into borderless window mode. It could just be my hardware, so your mileage may vary.
• Some take issue with the darkness of the original and claim BFG is brighter and therefore better, though all it seems to do is raise the light scale which completely blows out the lightest parts, and leaves the darkness as dark as ever. If you do play the BFG Edition, setting r_lightscale to 2 restores the original lighting. If you want BFG's lightscale while playing the original, set it to 3.
• The FOV is zoomed in 10 degrees by default, but the same value has about a 20 degree difference. I did a side by side comparison, and in order to match the BFG Edition's fov at 90, I had to set the original's to 71, and to match the original's 90, I set the BFG Edition's to 110.
    Hide contents

  (make sure your browser page is not zoomed in to see the intended effect)

  

  

   

• The flashlight differences are trivial because I use it so little in both versions that it really doesn't matter, though it may be the most contentious difference. While it's nice to have one less weapon to cycle through in the BFG Edition, the armor mounted flashlight does this jitter motion when going up stairs, or a weird bob when crouching, which looks pretty terrible.
• The BFG Edition omits the gunflash effect on weapons for some reason, so combined with the armor mounted flashlight, it functions identically to the duct tape mod for the original game.
• There are way more mods and great maps for the original, and the original is easier to mod and tweak in general.
• The amount of surplus ammo in the original is absurdly high, borderline comical. And for some reason The BFG Edition doubles this amount.
• Rather than finding source images or alternatives for the really low res textures, they focused on making the character models look...different. To get the most out of the textures in the original game, add the following to your autoexec or change them in the config file:
    Hide contents

  seta image_usePrecompressedTextures "0"
  seta image_useNormalCompression "0"
  seta image_useCompression "0"
  seta image_forceDownSize "0"
  seta image_downSize "0"
  seta image_downSizeBump "0"
  seta image_downSizeSpecular "0"
  seta image_roundDown "0"

There are two mods for the BFG Edition that absolutely make it worth playing: Cst-Doom3BFG, which mainly just fixes bugs and restores things from the original while adding an astronomical amount of qol features, and RBDoom3 which opens up modding capabilities to the less technically savvy and adds ambient lighting which is pretty nice, though the lighting does blow out certain computer screens so you can't read them. Still a very ambitious mod that's worth experiencing.

 

I see a lot of comments about the original being more horror focused and the BFG Edition being more action focused, but really it's the exact same game at its core so I can't fully relate to that sentiment; BFG Edition feels more like a halfway interesting mod that ended up breaking more things than it tried to improve, but for all the gripes I have with it, when I'm in the middle of playing either version I don't feel any difference in genre or tone. Sure the BFG Edition cuts content and has worse looking character models, but that doesn't change how the game feels overall. They may be referring to the flashlight differences or increased light scale, or even movement speed and the ammo increase, but I mean even reserved mods are usually more drastic than that, and it's still Doom 3.

 

In the end, it comes down to personal preference or at least a curious interest, and while there's something special about the original to me that the BFG Edition undermines, I will say that The BFG Edition does some of the more obvious stuff out of the box which makes it seem like an easier option at first glance, and is fine if messing with a config file bothers you (though BFG Edition may still require a bit of faffing). The original does almost require a little bit of setup with an autoexec.cfg or the regular config file depending on your preferences, but even out of the box it's still by far the definitive version.

 

TL;DR

Just play both because you have them both lololol thanks for letting me rant.

 

Too informative and logical to be a rant. I prefer the term "essay."

 

Good stuff. I learned a lot. Thank you.

 

On Topic, I have never played the BFG edition, nor will I, because I am a classic oldschool snob.

[Lippeth]

On 12/20/2022 at 8:00 PM, Kyka said:

Too informative and logical to be a rant. I prefer the term "essay."

 

Good stuff. I learned a lot. Thank you.

It did originally start out as more of a rant against the BFG Edition, but I ended up going back a few times to add more info and new thoughts for the sake of fairness, and because I just really enjoy talking about Doom 3 and was having fun comparing/contrasting between the two versions. Glad you enjoyed the read!

Edited December 23, 2022 by Lippeth

[invalidlain]

On 12/20/2022 at 6:53 PM, AmethystViper said:

Oddly enough I mentioned that it's sad that the "worst" version of Sonic Adventure is the one that's the most easily accessible nowadays instead of the original like BFG Edition is to Doom 3 in my own Steam review of the former. It's even more baffling that's only Steam that gets to have both the original Doom 3 + Resurrection of Evil and BFG Edition available in one package as of August 2022 meanwhile not even GOG gets to have the option of the original. I heard that it was because GOG don't offer CD keys yet they're perfectly fine with providing CD keys of Quake III Arena for its multiplayer features. It's also a shame there's no real "definitive" solution to fixing BFG Edition on PC unlike Sonic Adventure DX which was fortunate to have the blessings of SADX Mod Installer to restore the game much of it to its former Dreamcast glory thanks to its modding community while keeping the few genuine improvements DX has over the original Dreamcast version. CstDoom3BFG has helped fixed some of the problems that BFG Edition botched moreso than other source ports I've used in my opinion, but sadly it doesn't fix everything from what was still butchered in its version of Resurrection of Evil, it doesn't fix the gimped Nightmare! difficulty of the embedded classic Doom games, and it doesn't support the 2019 version of Doom 3. And to make matters worse for CstDoom3BFG, it seems like its developer has gone AWOL for over a year or two now and the source port has been left collecting dust (even though its source code is also included).

Doom 3 has been on Steam since like 2007. As for Sonic Adventure, I know the mod loader is being discontinued, so it might get harder to play SA on PC in a good way.

[P_A_Z]

I think Doom 3 is better visually than the BFG Edition, with mods like Sikkmod, Wulfen textures pack, Monoxead textures and a little ReShade.

Why ReShade ? Because the game is a little bit blurry. I put a preset with Curves and Sharpening and it sounds good. Maybe i'm right or wrong because modders have been working on graphical improvements for the BFG Edition. 

[jupiter_ex]

doom 3 blurry? I thought it was the sharpest thing you can get. Sharp shadows, basically no post processing. Not even sure if it had anti aliasing.
Basically pure geometry with fancy shading. I can't remember any blurriness :think:

[P_A_Z]

Just a little bit, not too much, there is AA 16X.

I haven't got any savegames but i have chosen this rendered in the sikkmod options, with only the color grading on LUT :

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by P_A_Z

[Yousuf Anik]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:24 PM, RetroWolf92 said:

2) The copies of Doom and Doom 2 packaged with it are edited (which I am strongly against)

I noticed it while watching a Doom 2 Speedrun for the very first time. In map 03 something looked different from what I played and that thing doesn't even exist in the edited version lol. Then I realized I was playing the wrong Doom 2 WAD (though I didn't get it through Doom 3 BFG Edition package, I played Doom 3 a lot later). Not sure about Doom though.

[Edward850]

48 minutes ago, Yousuf Anik said:

I noticed it while watching a Doom 2 Speedrun for the very first time. In map 03 something looked different from what I played and that thing doesn't even exist in the edited version lol. Then I realized I was playing the wrong Doom 2 WAD (though I didn't get it through Doom 3 BFG Edition package, I played Doom 3 a lot later). Not sure about Doom though.

Map03 did have changes made during the DOS versions, but BFG was not one of the versions that made changes to this map. It's been the same since v1.9. (Ultimate) Doom has had plenty of changes as well during the DOS years, up to and including a whole 4th episode being added.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Edward850

[Xerenogan]

The original is what I have the disks for, therefore it's original for me.

[PrinceOfBrains]

I was at a Disc Replay not long ago where I had to sit and silently listen to some dude mansplaining to his gf/partner about why vanilla Doom 3 sucks because of the flashlight, and why BFG is the "only way" to play Doom 3

 

So the BFG Edition is fine, it's not the game's fault that this dude was a total dillweed, but if you do play BFG Edition, try not to be a total dillweed about it lmao

[Cruduxy Pegg]

I've just replayed the BFG edition and it seems fine especially if you are a new player. The only things I absolutely hate are the unskippable cutscenes and the instant death stuff like floors that suddenly disappear or fridges that fall on you to instakill you (happens if you dare run and reach where they happen, guess they assumed everyone will just be walking at snail pace). Neither have relation to the combat or light level itself.

[Commander Mike]

I grew up playing the original shareware of doom. When Doom3 BFG came out it was like nothing else… like the first Star Wars movie. To this day.. I love playing this game. And it still gives me jump scares. It’s a classic horror game… which even spawned a few movies. I’ve played dozens of other horror games but still love to return to the good old plasma rifle. 

[Commander Mike]

On 12/19/2022 at 1:45 AM, Edward850 said:

Yeah about that, they didn't touch the graphics at all. Same textures (though now in a GPU compressed format), same normal mapping, same lighting engine.

Yes the upgraded the graphics 

[Edward850]

41 minutes ago, Commander Mike said:

Yes the upgraded the graphics 

No they didn't. If you really think they did you have to provide evidence.

[LoatharMDPhD]

// BFG is Trash... Ruined the lighting and balance... fun fact, it was released on Aug 3rd, 2004.. my birthday..

[mhmh]

On 12/1/2023 at 9:32 PM, Commander Mike said:

Yes the upgraded the graphics  

 

The lighting intensity was doubled, but that was the only meaningful "upgrade" done (and could be easily hacked into the original game anyway); otherwise they also changed some of the models to higher-polygon variants.

[Caffeine Freak]

I won't bother re-hashing the stuff BFG edition does wrong, because I've mentioned it before on this forum, and it's already been covered on this thread.

 

I know the audio differences have been mentioned here in this thread already but I thought I'd go into a little more detail on that topic: in addition to the new ambient sounds BFG edition has, a great number of the existing ambient sounds were beefed up and lengthened in the BFG edition---either they were rerecorded, or (much more likely) they were simply released in a much lower compression ratio than before. It's one of the areas in which BFG edition is clearly superior to vanilla Doom 3, in spite of all the cons. In fact, Chris Vrenna's entire sound library (sound/chris/wavs) received this treatment. Just check out the 2 versions of this ambient sound I'm attaching (sound/chris/wavs/chris_beds_1/desolate_synthmel_drone.ogg)---the difference is clear even without listening closely.

 

Fun fact and a little nerd tangent: all of the ambient sounds in Doom 3 are in .ogg format. For the most part, the .wav format is only used with sound effects such as weapons and things that cause screen shaking. However, many different ambient sounds are referenced in the Doom 3 map files with the .wav extension at the end, even though said sounds only exist as .ogg's in the game sound library. (I believe this is more the case when it comes to Chris Vrenna's sounds.) I suspect that at one point, a decision was made to save space and convert a ton of the ambient sounds from .wav to the much lower quality .ogg format prior to Doom 3's release. It's certainly a technically sensible judgement call, since having even a chunk of the ambient sounds in .wav format would likely have made the sound library massively bigger. But it does cause me to wonder sometimes if .wav versions of these sounds are still out there somewhere.

desolate_synthmel_drone.zip

desolate_synthmel_drone_bfg.zip

[Li'l devil]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:29 AM, Caffeine Freak said:

I know the audio differences have been mentioned here in this thread already but I thought I'd go into a little more detail on that topic: in addition to the new ambient sounds BFG edition has, a great number of the existing ambient sounds were beefed up and lengthened in the BFG edition---either they were rerecorded, or (much more likely) they were simply released in a much lower compression ratio than before. It's one of the areas in which BFG edition is clearly superior to vanilla Doom 3, in spite of all the cons. In fact, Chris Vrenna's entire sound library (sound/chris/wavs) received this treatment. Just check out the 2 versions of this ambient sound I'm attaching (sound/chris/wavs/chris_beds_1/desolate_synthmel_drone.ogg)---the difference is clear even without listening closely.

Oh, thanks, I didn't know that. Looks like I'll have to download the BFG Edition again.

[jupiter_ex]

On 12/16/2023 at 4:29 PM, Caffeine Freak said:

Fun fact and a little nerd tangent

... somewhere.

 

Same. I would love a version of the menu theme that's not awfully compressed. Strange thing to do for a mainstream AAA game. The same happens with the one in Quake 4