[Now on /idgames] 128 Linedefs, 64 Things (Vanilla Community Project)

[Pegleg]

7 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

 

• I did a review above of every single map a few posts before. I'd like to know if you are planning to tweak your map or not. Basically I need to know if your map is officially done.

 

My map is finished. I have no plans to make any more changes.

 

 

Quote

• We need to decide if we want to change the TITLEPIC and M_DOOM or not. Also we need to decide if we want to have a custom CREDIT graphic with all our names, and possibly a custom BOSSBACK graphic (the background that shows during the end monster cast after MAP30).

 

TITLEPIC: Keep

M_DOOM: Keep

CREDIT: We certainly need to have one. It doesn't have to be anything more fancy than a background with the names of projects leads, mappers, and testers, but it needs to be there.

BOSSBACK: No opinion

 

Quote

• Also we should decide if we want to include a widescreen WAD with widescreen assets for the TITLEPIC, INTERPIC, STBAR, etc. This could be very important if we want to add new graphics... Obviously we would need widescreen versions, so it'd be easier to work with if the graphics were already designed to be widescreen. (Normal Doom graphics are 320x200. For widescreen graphics, I usually do around 426x200).

 

I have no opinion on this. It doesn't matter to me if we don't have one, but I can appreciate that some people might like it. If it's simple to implement, and doesn't delay the release too much, go ahead.

[Rancid Sam]

I've been happy with my map for a while (thanks for the feedback, @Arsinikk.) I changed it the one time to make it more-easily UV-Max-able, but I don't plan on doing anything else with it.

[YMB]

On 8/6/2022 at 6:31 AM, Arsinikk said:

Here is a new version of the beta! This mostly updates @LGmaire's MAP11 (with his blessing and approval of course). I've also taken a stab at writing a text file for the project!

Download Beta 1.64

 

So to move forward with this project, we have to do a couple things.

• I did a review above of every single map a few posts before. I'd like to know if you are planning to tweak your map or not. Basically I need to know if your map is officially done.
• We need to decide if we want to change the TITLEPIC and M_DOOM or not. Also we need to decide if we want to have a custom CREDIT graphic with all our names, and possibly a custom BOSSBACK graphic (the background that shows during the end monster cast after MAP30).
• Also we should decide if we want to include a widescreen WAD with widescreen assets for the TITLEPIC, INTERPIC, STBAR, etc. This could be very important if we want to add new graphics... Obviously we would need widescreen versions, so it'd be easier to work with if the graphics were already designed to be widescreen. (Normal Doom graphics are 320x200. For widescreen graphics, I usually do around 426x200).

 

My maps are done, thanks again for all your work on this project!

[Arsinikk]

On 7/31/2022 at 3:48 AM, Arsinikk said:

MAP28 : mappersblock.wad - @Paf

  Reveal hidden contents

Ok, here we go.

 

So you'll be happy to know that your map isn't too bad in continuous, because of the map before, the player gets ample amounts of rockets and cells to deal with the opposition.

 

However, regardless if you can beat the map 100% pistol start yourself, the map is simply too difficult compared to the rest of the maps in this CP.

 

I have some tweaks that I think you could make that could ease the burden of the map just slightly to still keep the difficulty of the beginning but also make it easier to beat 100%.

 

Here are my suggestions:

• In a room towards the end you have a corridor with 12 Revenants. I suggest you remove 4 Revenants and put 4 box of rockets somewhere else in the map. You would still have the surprise ambush, but it would make it easier for players to deal with the opposition.
• In the same room, you have a medikit. I suggest you replace this with a berserk for 2 reasons: 1) the medikit is literally useless since when the player goes to get it, they basically lose the same amount of health on the damaging floor it is on, and 2) making it a berserk would help players deal with enemies when they run out of ammo.
• I suggest when the player walks off from linedef 80 to make sector 17 to lower and change texture. The main reason you have that wall is to stop the player when they first make the jump to grab the rocket launcher and kill the mancubi while also focusing on the Cacodemons closing behind them. However, once the player has done that fight, that wall is just a nuisance and has already served it's purpose. When I wake the revenants, sometimes I like to run over to where the Archviles start in the beginning and take the same corridor again. Problem is if you do this, you will be stuck in the corridor with only one way out that will be full of Revenants. It's basically a death sentence.

I think these minor changes will allow for most players to be able to beat the map without removing the difficulty of the map.

 

Ok @Paf, I know you're busy, but like we are still waiting on your feedback to your map not being beatable pistol start from many other testers. Above you can see what I suggested. You said you were gonna do a non-TAS demo earlier, but we haven't heard anything since.

Either way, the map is definitely the most difficult map of the set, and while it may still be "beatable" via pistol start, compared to all the other maps, it is on a completely different difficulty scale.

Here are some comments on MAP28 from testers:

 

Quote

LGmaire - "I seriously have no idea how you are supposed to beat this map, because I could not do it for the life of me, this is the worst map in the megawad by far."

Maribo - "holy hell paf's map28 for 128l64t... this is actually a cool map but it really needs a nerf... you could definitely beat this but you would have to spend a ton of time getting the revs to infight with the viles... you get 32 rockets and spend at least 12 of them (more like 16) on the mancubi immediately... you need to be an extreme masochist to max that map as it is"

 

 

-----------------------------------------

 

Quote

P.P.S btw i just had the idea for a title screen and credit graphic, will do these tomorrow and show them in this thread

 

@%some random internet shkila It seems many people don't have a problem with the current TITLEPIC, but you did say you had an idea for it, but we haven't heard anything about it since...

 

Also I was curious if you were gonna finish reviewing the rest of the maps. Feedback is always appreciated :)

You've done MAP01-MAP20 so far I think. Keep in mind we now have a new MAP04 and MAP07.

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

@NaZa Just curious if you were gonna get around to doing the rest of the FDAs. I really liked the FDAs and feedback you did so far (MAP01-MAP11).
Keep in mind we now have a new MAP04 and MAP07.

[Paf]

2 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

Ok @Paf, I know you're busy, but like we are still waiting on your feedback to your map not being beatable pistol start from many other testers. Above you can see what I suggested. You said you were gonna do a non-TAS demo earlier, but we haven't heard anything since.

Either way, the map is definitely the most difficult map of the set, and while it may still be "beatable" via pistol start, compared to all the other maps, it is on a completely different difficulty scale.

Here are some comments on MAP28 from testers:

Yeah, I guess I'll just nerf it a bit since I'm unable to actually get a non-TAS demo of it UV-Max.

[Arsinikk]

Everyone, I've created a new version with widescreen assets! (STBAR, TITLEPIC, INTERPIC and a new CREDIT lump as well)

 

Download Beta 1.65

 

Changelog:

• Added widescreen asset WAD
• Tweaked TITLEPIC so that widescreen is possible
• Added a new CREDIT lump (made by me, lemme know your guys' thoughts)

Edited November 13, 2023 by Arsinikk

[Codename_Delta]

18 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

Everyone, I've created a new version with widescreen assets! (STBAR, TITLEPIC, INTERPIC and a new CREDIT lump as well)

 

Download Beta 1.65

 

Changelog:

• Added widescreen asset WAD
• Tweaked TITLEPIC so that widescreen is possible
• Added a new CREDIT lump (made by me, lemme know your guys' thoughts)

There seems to be a weird offset in the wide-screen titlepic and credits lump.

[Arsinikk]

26 minutes ago, Codename_Delta said:

There seems to be a weird offset in the wide-screen titlepic and credits lump.

What port are you using? (Widescreen bg assets don't use offsets most of the time. Most ports will centre them regardless of size)

 

I've tested the widescreen WAD in the latest DSDA Doom, GZDoom, Crispy Doom, and Woof with no problems.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Arsinikk

[Paf]

128-64-28.wad
UV-MAX-28-00129.lmp

 

I honestly don't know why it took me so long to beat UV-MAX. The map isn't even that hard.

129 tries. Finally done atleast.

 

Edit: Just realized, almost 128 tries. Exactly one over 128 tries it took for me to beat the map UV-Max

Edited August 10, 2022 by Paf : idk

[Arsinikk]

13 minutes ago, Paf said:

128-64-28.wad
UV-MAX-28-00129.lmp

 

I honestly don't know why it took me so long to beat UV-MAX. The map isn't even that hard.

129 tries. Finally done atleast.

Did you upload the wrong demo or change the map you uploaded? Because the demo seems incorrect and/or desyncs:

 

[Codename_Delta]

22 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

What port are you using? (Widescreen bg assets don't use offsets most of the time. Most ports will centre them regardless of size)

 

I've tested the widescreen WAD in the latest DSDA Doom, GZDoom, Crispy Doom, and Woof with no problems.

Welp I'm stuck on mobile so it'd have to be PRBoom+

 

It works fine in GZ

[Arsinikk]

1 minute ago, Codename_Delta said:

Welp I'm stuck on mobile so it'd have to be PRBoom+

I just tested the latest PrBoom+ and the widescreen assets work correctly. The PrBoom+ you have on your phone is probably outdated, and so it displays widescreen assets in an older less accessible way.

[Codename_Delta]

Just now, Arsinikk said:

I just tested the latest PrBoom+ and the widescreen assets work correctly. The PrBoom+ you have on your phone is probably outdated, and so it displays widescreen assets in an older less accessible way.

Yeah probably 

[Arsinikk]

35 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

Did you upload the wrong demo or change the map you uploaded? Because the demo seems incorrect and/or desyncs:

Sorry Paf, I think I understand now.

 

The demo file you included was not meant to be played with the WAD file you included. The demo was for the old version of the map (or not... the old wad desyncs too so idk), while the WAD is the new nerfed version of MAP28.

 

I just played through the new MAP28, and I was able to beat it pistol start, so I say it's good!

[Paf]

2 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

Sorry Paf, I think I understand now.

 

The demo file you included was not meant to be played with the WAD file you included. The demo was for the old version of the map (or not... the old wad desyncs too so idk)

Nope, it was for the new version. Not sure what the problem is, what complevel are you playing on? I can check the demo to see if it works correctly on my PC.

[Paf]

Yeah, for some reason it desynced on it. That sucks.

 

I'm not sure what I did to cause it to desync.

[Arsinikk]

I got a new update for everyone!!

Download Beta 1.666

 

Changelog:

• Updated @Paf's MAP28
• Added ZMAPINFO for old ZDoom ports - for bonus maps

 

So at this moment, I am considering most maps as done, unless someone speaks up and wants to make a minor update to their map.

 

I'm setting a deadline for map updates on August 15th. Once that date hits the maps will be finalised, we will record some startup demos for the project, and then we will release a RC1 version of the community project and we can pretty much consider the project complete.

 

Thanks to everyone for their patience and participation on this community project! We couldn't have done this without all of you!

Edited November 13, 2023 by Arsinikk

[Paf]

1 hour ago, Arsinikk said:

we will record some startup demos for the project!

Who's recording the demos, or is everyone able to?

[Paf]

MAP26 can be beaten in 2 seconds or less. You can jump to the exit from the start immediately.

MAP26-skip.lmp

 

@Arsinikk Sorry, just sure who is LSC Lazlo on Doomworld.

[Arsinikk]

25 minutes ago, Paf said:

MAP26 can be beaten in 2 seconds or less. You can jump to the exit from the start immediately.

 MAP26-skip.lmp

 

@Arsinikk Sorry, just sure who is LSC Lazlo on Doomworld.

LSC Lasico is @%some random internet shkila.

@Luleta already pointed this out months ago:

Quote

"also you can exit the map pretty much instantly if you know where the exit is from the start of the map i did a little demo beating the map pacifist in 2 seconds."

 

Their response was so:

Quote

"That was intentional, i even tweaked it a little bit during development so it would be harder to pull that off"

 

 

40 minutes ago, Paf said:

Who's recording the demos, or is everyone able to?

The demos we are referencing are the 3 demos (can only be 3) that are shown on the title screen. Usually they tend to be around 20 seconds showing fun gameplay, but the player must die at the end. There is an art to creating good startup demos, making sure you don't play too good, while also not making the demo boring.

 

Also because we are doing a Vanilla CP, there is an additional bug we must address while recording startup demos: Revenant tracers desync internal demos. This means every demo made must be tested in Chocolate Doom with it tested as an internal demo (as DEMO1, DEMO2, DEMO3) and not a normal demo (external lmp demo file). Since a lot of the maps include revenants, each demo must be tested as an internal demo to make sure that it doesn't desync too much (since desync is inevitable) and make sure the player doesn't die more than once (very bad).

 

People are able to record demos, but each internal demo must be tested in Chocolate Doom / Vanilla Doom to make sure it runs correctly.

[Paf]

1 minute ago, Arsinikk said:

The demos we are referencing are the 3 demos (can only be 3) that are shown on the title screen. Usually they tend to be around 20 seconds showing fun gameplay, but the player must die at the end. There is an art to creating good startup demos, making sure you don't play too good, while also not making the demo boring.

Yeah, I know. What I meant was can you submit demos or claim a spot for certain maps?

[Arsinikk]

1 minute ago, Paf said:

Yeah, I know. What I meant was can you submit demos or claim a spot for certain maps?

What do you mean claim a spot? I guess the best way we should go about this, is just have anyone who wants to record their own demos and then vote on the 3 demos we like the best. I would wait until August 15th, as that will be when the maps will be considered finalised.

 

Again, I'd like to point out that demos of maps with revenants will not play exactly the same way as the startup demos. So test those by importing them into the wad and naming them DEMO1, DEMO2, or DEMO3, and watching them specifically in Chocolate Doom / Vanilla Doom. DSDA Doom and modern ports fix this desync, so don't use those ports to test if your internal demo works well.

[Paf]

1 minute ago, Arsinikk said:

I guess the best way we should go about this, is just have anyone who wants to record their own demos and then vote on the 3 demos we like the best.

Yep! That was what I was thinking.

[Arsinikk]

Well actually I do have a list of maps that you can record internal demos for right now (the mappers have explicitly stated that their maps are finalised):

• MAP03
• MAP06
• MAP09
• MAP11
• MAP13
• MAP14
• MAP15
• MAP16
• MAP21
• MAP24
• MAP27
• MAP28 (I think)
• MAP31
• MAP34
• MAP35

For the other maps, we either wait til those mappers say their maps are, for sure, finalised or wait for the August 15 deadline.

[Luleta]

keep in mind that these are titlescreen demos, not really a place to showoff your speedrunning skills haha

if you wanna play like how grandpa plays doom with  a trackpad it may work just fine.

[LSC Lasico]

14 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

 

@%some random internet shkila It seems many people don't have a problem with the current TITLEPIC, but you did say you had an idea for it, but we haven't heard anything about it since...

 

Also I was curious if you were gonna finish reviewing the rest of the maps. Feedback is always appreciated :)

You've done MAP01-MAP20 so far I think. Keep in mind we now have a new MAP04 and MAP07.

Nah, i pretty much dropped the titlepic idea once i heard everyone was okay with the current one.

 

Yes, i will review the rest of the maps, but here’s a tl;dr:

map04: i can live in this one

map07: nice but forgetable (bopping soundtrack)

map21: extremely fun and creative.

map22: unforgettable

map23: hella cool soundtrack and fun

map24: literally the best in this whole set (amazing music)

map25: nice breather, comes right in time.

map26: made by a monkey

map27: frustrating at first, then hella fun.

map28: i will not attempt this pistol start

map29: too claustrophobic for its own good

map30: sucks balls at pistol start, fun otherwise (using a touhou soundtrack is based)

map33: made by a hentai addict

map16(new one): fun but kinda slow

map35: a hellish spawn of satan that i despise the very fabric of being that it consists of and i will never play it again.

[LSC Lasico]

5 hours ago, Paf said:

MAP26 can be beaten in 2 seconds or less. You can jump to the exit from the start immediately.

MAP26-skip.lmp

 

This is intentional, i left it in for speedeun purposes.

[Thelokk]

9 minutes ago, %some random internet shkila said:

map26: made by a monkey

 

Huh? I'm confusion. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Thelokk

[LSC Lasico]

9 minutes ago, Thelokk said:

 

Huh? I'm confusion. 

Me, i created this map

[Arsinikk]

27 minutes ago, %some random internet shkila said:

map35: a hellish spawn of satan that i despise the very fabric of being that it consists of and i will never play it again.

Lol what a savage review :P

Well it is a bonus map...

 

I'm curious what part of it caused you issues. It's mostly a puzzle map.