What's everyone's thoughts on tic-beating?

[Meowgi]

I have a general sense of how the community feels just by discussing this often, but it would be cool to see a distribution of where people fall on this topic.

 

Personally, I am totally okay with tic-beating a run, but usually only if the next second doesn't seem to be easily obtainable because the run is so tight. Often when I set a goal for a run, it will be the next second if it seems doable. I suppose this puts me somewhere between options 2 and 3 but I voted 2

 

Where does everyone else stand on tic beating?

[GarrettChan]

There's no option to bash Meowgi so I refuse to vote

[Xyzzу]

Tics are annoying, beat the shit outta 'em! 🪲

 

[Billa]

Sure, as long as it's more than 35 tics 🙂

[Bdubzzz]

Fastest time is the fastest time 4Head

[YoshizinGordin]

I Prefer Beating People Who Have Tics.

[Ravendesk]

I wanted to vote for 3, but it is a preference, not a strong opinion, so I voted for 1.

 

I think tick-beating is cool, when the run is highly optimized and not exactly cool otherwise. But since "highly optimized" is a subjective thing and the definitions may differ, I can't imagine any sensible distinguishing rules and thus, in my opinion, tick beating should be "okay" in any case.

 

Also I like the clock thing on dsda indicating which player was the first to beat a second barrier, I don't want it to go away.

[Decay]

Faster is faster, doesn't matter if it is by 1 tic or 1 minute or 1 hour.

 

That being said, tic runs are more relevant on maps that are either highly optimized or extremely short. Wads like thissuxx wouldn't have a lot of runs if it was by seconds only.

 

Tic beating is also more relevant for stroller runs where there is less room for error.

 

Either way, a win is a win.

[Kinetic]

2 minutes ago, Ravendesk said:

I think tick-beating is cool, when the run is highly optimized and not exactly cool otherwise.

I echo this sentiment, although I don't really think of tic beating as particularly cool in any case. I mean it's always more impressive to improve a time by a larger margin, but I don't get why tic beating should be shamed or anything like that. Outside of super highly optimized runs where tic beating is the only way to improve time, I don't think anyone is looking to tic beat either, most people want to break that next second barrier or something greater. If there was a problem with doom speedrunners only trying to tic beat, even in runs where there's tons of room for optimization, then maybe I wouldn't vote for 1. I think we should all strive to do the best we can at lowering a demo time, not the minimum (tic beat), but at the same time, it's okay to tic beat.

5 minutes ago, Decay said:

Faster is faster, doesn't matter if it is by 1 tic or 1 minute or 1 hour.

Yea exactly. If it's a tic beat in a highly optimized demo, then impressive. If it's a tic beat in an unoptimized run, then that person who tic beated or someone else can just go and obtain those optimizations and improve the run by a more significant margin. Don't get why there would be annoyance at a tic beat really (but it is kind of funny sometimes).

[Andrea Rovenski]

old dsda didn't list them, but new one does, so it's whatever. gopher it

[Luleta]

i just personally wouldn't feel satisfied beating a run by just 1 tic UNLESS

it was like .69 or .00

ORRRR

it's like a super optimized sweaty tryhard run.

[Stupid Bunny]

I'm all for it, fuck ticks

[SleepyVelvet]

I like how the current system DSDA labels stuff as is with labels: "First to break the Second Barrier"

 

If someone is proud of their tic-beat, they should submit it.  But if you still have the energy to beat the Second Barrier though, might as well put the extra effort in and go for the Second Barrier.

 

I personally look the "first to clear the second barrier" run with more worth, unless it's a super optimized run.  

This is partly because it was the old standard and am used to it, but also it seems like an easier way of managing and verifying things as a player, and it also makes marginal record improvements more impactful in how they move the needle.  So, this is why I look at them as the more "legit" run in most cases.

 

Though I also enjoy the back-and-forth tic-beat wars that sometimes happen regardless of run difficulty.

Edited August 5, 2022 by NoisyVelvet

[Decay]

34 minutes ago, NoisyVelvet said:

Though I also enjoy the back-and-forth tic-beat wars that sometimes happen regardless of run difficulty.

I love a good tic war

[j4rio]

If you beat a 10 minute demo by a tic, you deserve to get your WR ruthlessly mocked.

[SleepyVelvet]

20 minutes ago, j4rio said:

If you beat a 10 minute demo by a tic, you deserve to get your WR ruthlessly mocked.

Tehehe.  But if I beat one of your long, hard Tyson demos incidentally by only one tic, I am 100% uploading it anyways regardless.  At that point I'm probably sick of the map and never want to look back at it.  (edit: but join in on the mocking as well)

Edited August 5, 2022 by NoisyVelvet

[Andrea Rovenski]

gonna submit a d2all tic record 

[j4rio]

disgusting, how can you live with yourself?

[baja blast rd.]

Chose the "it should be encouraged, especially when beating extremely old slow table fillers, followed by a dramatic spiel about how it may be possible to shave off a few more tics" option. 

[ReaperAA]

WR is a WR, even if it is only by a single tic.

 

With that said however, I do prefer to see it brought down to the next second if it is close. I will go with option 2

[Doomkid]

Doom is the only game I can think of where you need to beat someone by a whole second for it to count. The Mario games have a very rich and consistently competitive speedrunning scene because they measure in milliseconds. Tics is a reasonable alternative for Doom.

 

I know a bunch of old dinosaurs around here who are starting to lose their edge against the more energetic young crop will disagree with me vehemently because change equals bad. To that I say, move the fuck over gramps.

 

On 8/6/2022 at 6:26 AM, j4rio said:

If you beat a 10 minute demo by a tic, you deserve to get your WR ruthlessly mocked.

Indisputable champions often face mockery from losers. It’s nothing new!

[BigBoy91]

A win's a win's a win. If you think you can do better, then do it. Seems pretty simple to me. Show your superiority over the cheap ass tic beater.

On 8/5/2022 at 4:08 PM, Decay said:

I love a good tic war

Aw yeah.

[Andromeda]

8 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I know a bunch of old dinosaurs around here who are starting to lose their edge against the more energetic young crop will disagree with me vehemently because change equals bad. To that I say, move the fuck over gramps.

Judging by the poll results so far, I'd say most are in support of tic beating and the rest don't really care that much.

[nrofl]

Tics are counted in games far older than doom so I dont really care, Wolf3D speedruns are counted to the tic for example

[j4rio]

59 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Indisputable champions often face mockery from losers. It’s nothing new!

 

We've already had a long history of mocking single second demo beaters of longer recordings, this just broadens the portfolio.

[Doomkid]

1 hour ago, Andromeda said:

Judging by the poll results so far, I'd say most are in support of tic beating and the rest don't really care that much.

In case it isn't obvious, I'm just being hyperbolic for the lols. I prefer tic-based measurements but ultimately I think the majority should have the final say.

[7Mahonin]

I think tics are necessary for calculating the time to complete something, and at times the tics can matter in who has the world record run, but... when someone beats that time by seconds (or even in some cases by minutes) less, and not just by a few tics less I would say it has a much larger impact and is far more impressive, if not more rewarding, than competing by the tics.

Edited August 21, 2022 by 7Mahonin

[Arrowhead]

I guess I don't really get the issue here.

 

If someone beats an any% demo by 1 tic, is that not faster? Is that not by default a more impressive run than a run that's one tic longer? I think so. Why are we even talking about this? Who cares if someone beats a record by a year or a second? The record was BROKEN - the new time is faster - objectively.

 

I don't really speedrun Doom, but I have speedrun many other games - faster is always faster whether it's by a femtosecond or a minute.

 

Maybe I'm just not understanding something about the Doom/2 demo scene...

[Jello]

2 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Doom is the only game I can think of where you need to beat someone by a whole second for it to count. The Mario games have a very rich and consistently competitive speedrunning scene because they measure in milliseconds. Tics is a reasonable alternative for Doom.

 

I know a bunch of old dinosaurs around here who are starting to lose their edge against the more energetic young crop will disagree with me vehemently because change equals bad. To that I say, move the fuck over gramps.

 

Indisputable champions often face mockery from losers. It’s nothing new!

I just like playing Doom. I'm absolutely amazed that there are so many young people who have become enamored with the game, and that they're arguing about whether it should be whole seconds, or tics. I never cared about that when I was playing Doom when it first came out. I've watched speed runs, and they're impressive, but I really haven't cared about doing it myself. I'd rather just enjoy playing the game. But to see people arguing about how it should be speed ran 30 years after it came out, that's just golden. id did something right when they made this game.

 

But yes, if you can measure a run in tics, then it should be counted.

[xit-vono]

I know that historically tic beaters were not allowed in Quake, although for a while they had bunny comparison where anyone could submit easy runs for selected maps, and they had leaderboards that showed times to less than a second.