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Caged

If I've beaten Scythe, can I handle Alien Vendetta?

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I want to start playing pwads and Alien Vendetta is highly recommended everywhere, but I've read it's too difficult. Outside of official stuff, I've only played Scythe. 

 

I'm sure most of you have played both. How would you compare their difficulty?

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After Scythe i would recommend Scythe 2, Alien Vendetta or Speed of Doom to be next wad for playing. Little bit more difficult but not much.

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If you can beat Scythe MAP30 on UV, you can probably handle AV

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I personally think some later AV maps are easier than Scythe Map30. It's more like the first time you play it, you don't know where to get the weapons and it can be a bit annoying. (Of course if you are playing continuously, then this is not a problem.)

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Posted (edited)

Honestly I found AV to be quite a bit easier than Scythe, and Scythe 2 is in another ballpark as far as I'm concerned. I did play Scythe before AV though, and didn't have much experience. None of them are insanely difficult by today's standards, but the last portion of Scythe 2 is the only one that gave me substantial trouble. The rest of Scythe 2 is pretty tame. If you're looking to bridge the gap between DOOM/DOOM2 and AV, you could always try Sunder, which is only marginally harder than E4M1.

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Posted (edited)

Only map26 in AV is hard-hard, the rest are quite managable (and enjoyable). I never managed to finish either of the Scythes from pistol start, but AV i could manage. Great set!

 

Edit: forgot map17 and 18 from AV, they are quite fierce.

 

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There are two big difference between Alien Vendetta and Scythe:
1. For Scythe, only the last 10 levels are meant to be difficult, while with Alien vendetta, the difficulty spikes much sooner and stays that way through the end.

2. Alien Vendetta maps are much longer (on average) than the maps in Scythe. For them, the difficulty comes from the fact that you have to tackle so many hard segments in a single run, so if you're doing it saveless, then it'll probably be more difficult.

Remember, the more you play, the better you get. Alien Vendetta is tougher on average than Scythe, but in my opinion, only 3 of the maps (25, 26, and 27) are comparable to Scythe's map 30.

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11 minutes ago, SuperPecanMan said:

For them, the difficulty comes from the fact that you have to tackle so many hard segments in a single run, so if you're doing it saveless, then it'll probably be more difficult.

That's very helpful, I should have probably mentioned that I prefer doing maps saveless (after practising with saves, of course) from a pistol start. 

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1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

 If you're looking to bridge the gap between DOOM/DOOM2 and AV, you could always try Sunder, which is only marginally harder than E4M1.

What in the world are you talking about?!

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Idk if it's relevant to the topic, because these wads aren't really hard, but... Try out Valiant and Struggle: Antaresian Legacy. I'd say their difficulty is 'medium', but they're so great I think it's worth checking them out anyway. But if you're looking for challenge wads, there's the CHORD series by Malcolm Sailor and various mapsets by Ribbiks and Death-Destiny. Also Sunlust.

And if you want some super duper difficult wad... Try out Dark Tartarus, a GZDoom wad that requires mouselook and crouching and jumping.

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Alien Vendetta isn't really that punishing. But depends on how you play. If you can do pistolstarts in Plutonia on UV and have fun, you should be fine with pistolstarting Alien Vendetta on UV, too. Just go for it.

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I find Alien Vendetta easier than Scythe, particularly the last levels. It's still punishing, but not as sadistic.

 

3 hours ago, JT88 said:

After Scythe i would recommend Scythe 2, Alien Vendetta or Speed of Doom to be next wad for playing. Little bit more difficult but not much.

I'm not sure about Scythe 2 being just ''little bit more difficult''. The last 10 maps are hard. Anyone that can beat Scythe 2 past Whispering Winds on UV is, IMO, no longer a filthy casual.

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I have only done first 18 maps (plus the secret ones) of AV on UV pistol starts, and I think it is harder than Scythe maps 1-29 + 31 + 32 - but compared to the final stretch of Scythe, I think AV is a perfectly good next wad.

 

But then, I don't do saveless, and I have played several medium difficulty wads between my Scythe and AV playthrough, so my perspective might be skewed. I would guess if you really "prefer saveless", which I assume means you have done Scythe MAP30 saveless, you shouldn't have problem for two thirds of AV. I can barely ITYTD-MAX Fire & Ice with saves.

 

As others have said, AV levels are longer than Scythe, which might pose a problem on saveless runs. Traps are nastier, but that's only a matter of learning the levels, I suppose.

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33 minutes ago, Endless said:

 

I'm not sure about Scythe 2 being just ''little bit more difficult''. The last 10 maps are hard. Anyone that can beat Scythe 2 past Whispering Winds on UV is, IMO, no longer a filthy casual.

"Little bit more difficult" was an answer to original question how would i compare difficulty between Scythe 1 and Alien Vendetta. Should have prhased it better.

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Check this thread out! It helped me a lot, and it should help you too.

 

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I blasted through AV a few times in cooperative years ago and loved it, but I’m finding it kind of hard to get through in SP. It’s not over the top in “raw difficulty”, and Scythe’s 3 meanest maps are probably meaner than AV at its meanest - but at least there’s only 3 of them in Scythe. AV in SP is proving to be a seriously slow burn for me because the maps take so much time to beat.. The brevity of most Scythe maps made getting to that difficult final stretch a lot more digestible for me personally.

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12 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I blasted through AV a few times in cooperative years ago and loved it, but I’m finding it kind of hard to get through in SP. It’s not over the top in “raw difficulty”, and Scythe’s 3 meanest maps are probably meaner than AV at its meanest - but at least there’s only 3 of them in Scythe. AV in SP is proving to be a seriously slow burn for me because the maps take so much time to beat.. The brevity of most Scythe maps made getting to that difficult final stretch a lot more digestible for me personally.

I found the average map length of AV to be all right for the most part... until MAP25. Demonic Hordes feels so bloated as a level to me, with the ideas the level has you could make about 3 different levels out of it and it probably would be more stomachable, moreso when most of the map sections barely seem to connect together.

 

MAP26 is not that big, which is good because this is a level where progress is slow but methodical. At least the level is up front with its premise and doesn't stretch the proceedings forever, once you win the big fight the map sets you up with at the beginning of it, you win. It's more involved than Scythe's own MAP26, but the style of gameplay is pretty similar.

 

Rest of the WAD though? Having replayed it on UV some time ago, MAP27-29 I can live without. The maps are way too big, with way too monsters and the ending never ever feels in sight, with so many big fights that the level gets tiring. While the later levels do feel more cohesive than Demonic Hordes and feel like singular entities, I still feel most levels in the endgame just outlast their welcome and don't know when to quit.

 

(Also MAP29 can go to hell with its 50-60 revenant fight and the cyberdemons in tiny rooms)

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12 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

If you're looking to bridge the gap between DOOM/DOOM2 and AV, you could always try Sunder, which is only marginally harder than E4M1.

 

Sunder!!? Nice trolling lmao.

 

To answer OP, if you managed to beat Map30 of Scythe, then AV shouldn't be too much of an issue "difficulty wise". With that said, AV's maps are much bigger and thus AV feels a lot more grindy whereas Scythe's shorter maps keep it from becoming grindy. Then there is the issue that I think that parts of AV haven't aged well at all.

 

There are plenty of modern wads that vastly overshadow AV in terms of visuals/level design and encounter designs. If you are just getting into pwads, then I would recommend Skillsaw's wads as first recommendations. I think you might have heard of Skillsaw's wads like Valiant or Ancient Aliens, which are imho excellent wads and overshadow AV in quality.

 

Although I would recommend to start out with Skillsaw's older wads like Lunatic and Vanguard would be my recommendation to start out. They are quite easier than Skillsaw's later wads and certainly a lot easier than Scythe, but will give you a taste of Skillsaw's brand of gameplay.

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Depends how you want to play (UV or HMP etc, pistol start? saves?) but I'd say the bigger difference is that AV is more consistent in its map length and difficulty.

 

If you've only played Scythe, AV will feel a lot longer to play through.

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Not to derail the cooled off thread, but I played AV’s MAP25 (Demonic Hordes) today, and I was expecting it to be much worse, some relentless ga(u)ntlet like Scythe’s Fire & Ice. It’s bloated, sure, and I’m not happy if the rest of AV follows this particular suit, but still; I actually had fun most of the time with this level (and it’s much more manageable than F&I, although I found the layout more boring and basic than Scythe’s finale).

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The thing about AV map25 is that many of the fights can be cheesed or just skipped entirely. That's not so much the case with maps 26 to 29. Map26 can be a bit of a bore as much of it is "combat puzzle" (i.e. positioning for infighting and waiting for the cybs to kill half the level) but the remaining three are very enjoyable and feels sort of like a "harder inferno".

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Uncle 80 said:

but the remaining three are very enjoyable and feels sort of like a "harder inferno"

 

50 minutes in MAP27, with about half the kill count and constant ammo starvation, I'm not sure this statement is entirely accurate. Having far more miserable time with it than MAP25 and 26 combined.

 

EDIT later: Yeah, MAP27 might not be the worst map in the bunch, but that one I have the least desire to replay. If there had at least been a berserk pack somewhere, I wouldn't have had to deal with the final two hell knights with unbuffed fists, foffucksake...

Edited by RHhe82 : Gave civilized concluding remarks

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Posted (edited)

I played the first few maps of AV. That was some good stuff, but I think I'm gonna put it on the back burner for now. The last episode of Scythe really pushed me to my limits. I don't think I had as much fun with as I did with Plutonia, the hardest wad I had played until then.

 

Based on what people have said, I might be able to beat AV but I'm not sure if I'll enjoy it at my current skill level. I think I'm gonna play modern stuff like BTSX, Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Eviternity etc to  naturally get better before attempting AV.

 

Thank you all for your inputs!

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In which case definitely have a look at the post of @BigBoy91 above! This lists out WADs in order of perceived challenge. Although this is different for different players it is a useful guide.

I have just completed Plutonia and am on Map 26 of Scythe now! It definitely kicks up in intensity. Good luck.

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6 hours ago, Caged said:

I think I'm gonna play modern stuff like BTSX, Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Eviternity etc to  naturally get better before attempting AV.

 

Thank you all for your inputs!

 

You made the right choice.

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There are difficulties other than Ultra-Violence, you know. 

 

I'm playing through it first time on Hurt Me Plenty, and it seems reasonably manageable so far. I'm about half-way through. Granted, I don't pistol start or play without saves, that's just masochism imo. Maybe fine for vanilla levels, but I wouldn't do that on custom wads first run.

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11 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

There are difficulties other than Ultra-Violence, you know

With the amount of wads available, I'd rather play a wad only once at the highest difficulty and not play it ever again. If it's too hard, I'd rather play easier wads until I'm good enough to beat the harder mapset.

 

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On 8/12/2022 at 12:27 PM, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

If you're looking to bridge the gap between DOOM/DOOM2 and AV, you could always try Sunder, which is only marginally harder than E4M1.

That’s like reading Green Eggs and Ham, then deciding the correct course of action is to study for your next book with War and Peace.

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18 hours ago, Caged said:

With the amount of wads available, I'd rather play a wad only once at the highest difficulty and not play it ever again. If it's too hard, I'd rather play easier wads until I'm good enough to beat the harder mapset.

 

A lot of wads are designed for HMP to be equivalent to standard UV, and UV to be for experts who have played the maps before.

 

So it's unwise to really start every wad you intend to beat with UV on your first time through. Depends on the maps of course, but I don't think that's always the best course of action unless you're looking for sadistic levels of punishment, which just isn't as fun imo. But maybe it is if you're more into slaughter maps.

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