[Community Project] Cleanout – A slaughterish Boom compatible Ultimate Doom megawad [ALL SLOTS TAKEN!!!]

[Razza]

22 hours ago, epicyolomaster420 said:

Why not, instead of replacing dozens if not hundreds of cacodemons and barons, make said enemies have less hitpoints via dehacked and to compensate for this make these enemies a bit more dangerous (and in the case of the baron give him a reskin)?

More speciffically I was thinking of reducing the barons hit points from 1000 to 750 (as lets face it: the baron has always had too much HP), making him shot out a second baron fireball on the attack frame before the one on which he currently launches his one and only baron fireball, making him look like this:

(a recoloration of the belphegor (a custom baron monster from Realm667) that I did myself)

reducing the cacodemons HP from 400 to 375, and reducing the length of time it (the cacodemon) needs to launch it's fireball from 15 game tics to 9 (a 40% decrease).

 

IF I DO DECIDE TO DO THIS HOWEVER THEN THIS, DUE TO THE WAY DEHACKED CUSTOM MONSTERS WORK, WON'T JUST REPLACE THE BARONS AND CACODEMONS WITH THESE CUSTOM ONES IN MY MAPS BUT IN YOUR MAPS AS WELL. I AM THEREFORE PUTTING THIS IDEA UP FOR DEMOCRATIC VOTE (I'D LIKE YOU GUYS TO TELL ME IF YOUR IN FAVOR OF THIS OR NOT...)

 

What do you guys think (I wanted to run this by you all due to the obvious gameplay and balance changes it will result in if it gets included in)?

 

 

I'm all for turning the tougher demons into more of a glass cannon type of enemy, though maybe you could reduce the Baron's health even further (maybe down to 500 like the hell knight). Same with the caco actually, a 25 hp decrease doesn't really sound like it'll make a meaningful difference

[clamgor]

On 11/24/2022 at 9:13 PM, epicyolomaster420 said:

@Herr Dethnout, @Philnemba, @clamgor, @AnArchaicApparatus, @DavidN, @Razza, @R0rque. I've recently gotten feedback on some of my maps from a guy who happens to know me from my participation in the 2 RAMP projects that told me I used  too many bullet spongy enemies (probably cacodemons and especially barons...) and that this makes these maps boring.

This then got me thinking if this is also true for my other maps he had not yet tested and made me realize that this is actually a systemic and all present problem (present in all of my maps - finished or not...).

I then got to thinking how I might be able to fix this problem without having to radically redesign all of my maps and got a great idea:

Why not, instead of replacing dozens if not hundreds of cacodemons and barons, make said enemies have less hitpoints via dehacked and to compensate for this make these enemies a bit more dangerous (and in the case of the baron give him a reskin)?

More speciffically I was thinking of reducing the barons hit points from 1000 to 750 (as lets face it: the baron has always had too much HP), making him shot out a second baron fireball on the attack frame before the one on which he currently launches his one and only baron fireball, making him look like this:

(a recoloration of the belphegor (a custom baron monster from Realm667) that I did myself)

reducing the cacodemons HP from 400 to 375, and reducing the length of time it (the cacodemon) needs to launch it's fireball from 15 game tics to 9 (a 40% decrease).

 

IF I DO DECIDE TO DO THIS HOWEVER THEN THIS, DUE TO THE WAY DEHACKED CUSTOM MONSTERS WORK, WON'T JUST REPLACE THE BARONS AND CACODEMONS WITH THESE CUSTOM ONES IN MY MAPS BUT IN YOUR MAPS AS WELL. I AM THEREFORE PUTTING THIS IDEA UP FOR DEMOCRATIC VOTE (I'D LIKE YOU GUYS TO TELL ME IF YOUR IN FAVOR OF THIS OR NOT...)

 

What do you guys think (I wanted to run this by you all due to the obvious gameplay and balance changes it will result in if it gets included in)?

 

P.S. : I've included the dehacked file with these exact changes, the wad with the recolored baron sprites, and the most recent version of cleanout with both said dehacked file and said recolored sprites already included in to help you decide (if you've already finished your map for the project then I suggest you run this most recent version of cleanout to retest it, and if you haven't then I suggest you use the dehacked file in conjuction with the recolored sprites wad instead...):

Cleanout-custom monsters.zip

cleanout dehacked.zip

recolored belphegor wad.zip

P.P.S. : I also don't just like the idea of doing this because it fixes my problem, but because it, in my opinion, makes Cleanout even more unique and interesting...

 

good with this idea, since my secret level's gimmick is:

Spoiler

the majority of the maps' monsters consist of cacodemons

 

also i might have to take up on the offer for a deadline extension as i've also just been working on P2M9 bit by bit, i'll send updates on it once the second portion of the map is textured and modeled out

[Razza]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gNVquosf9AsL8XiGPio1QZWSLWvoLPzn/view?usp=sharing Here's a draft of e1m9. Detailing is not final, and there's no difficulty settings yet. Wanted to get it out for some feedback before I start focusing on those.

 

 

[DavidN]

On 11/24/2022 at 7:36 AM, R0rque. said:

:ahem: Huuuuh... @DavidN , @Philnemba , @clamgor and @AnArchaicApparatus , do you want me to make the tracks of your maps or d'you prefer to keep your own choice ? ;)

 

Hi, sorry for missing this the first time! If you have the time and the inclination then I'd be very glad for you to go for it :)

[epicyolomaster420]

@Herr Dethnout, @clamgor, @Philnemba, @DavidN, @R0rque., @Razza, @AnArchaicApparatus So my test went well and I'm back.

As you've probably seen I've already seen and reacted to most of your posts during my prep (as I was too curious to go completely offline like I promised I would) but didn't have time to react to them, so I'll do this now:

On 11/25/2022 at 11:44 AM, R0rque. said:

 

Ja. I think this will be cool and will change what we usually see in the original Doom. ;)

Yes my thoughts exactly!

 

On 11/25/2022 at 12:36 PM, Razza said:

I'm all for turning the tougher demons into more of a glass cannon type of enemy, though maybe you could reduce the Baron's health even further (maybe down to 500 like the hell knight). Same with the caco actually, a 25 hp decrease doesn't really sound like it'll make a meaningful difference

I think I'd prefer to keep it as it is as the baron does look tough and like he should be able to take a bit of a punisment to me. Also I've initialy designed a lot of my maps with barons having high HP in mind so going and halfing the hit points would probably be pushing it...

And as for the caco's HP I don't think I want to lower it any further as the caco's aren't as responcible for the tedeoisness problem as the barons and as I've always, for some reason, had the desire for the caco's HP to be exactly half of the baron's and this allows me to have that... 

 

On 11/27/2022 at 10:21 AM, Razza said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gNVquosf9AsL8XiGPio1QZWSLWvoLPzn/view?usp=sharing Here's a draft of e1m9. Detailing is not final, and there's no difficulty settings yet. Wanted to get it out for some feedback before I start focusing on those.

 

 

I've played the level and I really like it. I don't really have any complaints about it so I went ahead and included it into the wad (update 21)

 

Also since the majority has spoken on the issue of the custom monsters and voted in favor of this dehacked patch I've decided to make it part of the main wad (which I've included in the latest update: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdtsec5vbqtpx20/Cleanout_21.zip?dl=0).

On top of this I've decided to made another minor dehacked change to one of the enemies, that I don't think I need to put to a vote because most of you aren't going to be making/haven't made use of this enemy: 

I've reduced the width of the spider mastermind's hitbox size from 256 to 192 (as lets face it: she was always to fat, and so this is hopefully going to rectify this and at least make her more maneuverable, easy to use, dangerous & less likely to get stuck...)!

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vug3pj9aoo8qu7c/cleanout dehacked_1.zip?dl=0

(also includes changes from previous patch)

 

Also I've forgotten to recolor a few of the belphegor sprites for the baron so I've fixed this:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2cqs4b9ughweuxl/recolored belphegor wad_1.zip?dl=0

(fixed sprites also in update 21)

 

I've also just finnished another one of my levels for the project, that I'd really like to hear some of your thoughts on (cause I really put a lot of effort into it and think it's probably my best Cleanout level thus far): I've finnished P3M5 (and included it into the wad - update 21). Screenshots:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by epicyolomaster420 : replaced the zips with dropbox links to them...

[Razza]

52 minutes ago, epicyolomaster420 said:

I've played the level and I really like it. I don't really have any complaints about it so I went ahead and included it into the wad (update 21)

Great! I'll be getting to work on difficulty and detailing then

[epicyolomaster420]

@Herr Dethnout I was just thinking about the outline of a level you initaily sent to me as P1M9, before Razza decided to join and thought that it's a bit too good of a concept to just drop like I ultimately did, so I was thinking:

How about I give you complete freedom to finish the level how you want (no predetermined monster counts, no weapon/boss monster usage limitations & no requirements on how to start/finnish the level), put the level into e4m1 as a bonus level (that's not tied into the story in any way and is, like the name suggests, just an extra - a bonus) and give all my other mappers for this project (@Philnemba, @clamgor, @DavidN, @AnArchaicApparatus, @R0rque. & @Razza), the option of making a bonus level just like this as well if they want?

 

What do you all think?

 

P.S. : Inspite of the lack of all other restraints and requirements, the custom barons & caco's dehacked patch would still be need to be used for these maps... (they can't be included into episode 4 without it)

Edited December 3, 2022 by epicyolomaster420 : forgot to include some information...

[Herr Dethnout]

3 hours ago, epicyolomaster420 said:

@Herr Dethnout I was just thinking about the outline of a level you initaily sent to me as P1M9, before Razza decided to join and thought that it's a bit too good of a concept to just drop like I ultimately did, so I was thinking:How about I give you complete freedom to finish the level how you want (no predetermined monster counts, no weapon/boss monster usage limitations & no requirements on how to start/finnish the level), put the level into e4m1 as a bonus level (that's not tied into the story in any way and is, like the name suggests, just an extra - a bonus).

 

Oh great, then I will bring back the map again.

 

This idea is great because it will ne like they actual 4 episode in spite (where most if not all the maps where Made by new level designers) :P

[epicyolomaster420]

2 minutes ago, Herr Dethnout said:

 

Oh great, then I will bring back the map again.

 

This idea is great because it will ne like they actual 4 episode in spite (where most if not all the maps where Made by new level designers) :P

Great to see you on board with the idea, but I have no idea what you meant to say with "because it will ne like they actual 4 episode in spite" (you probably could have phrased that better...)!

[Herr Dethnout]

40 minutes ago, epicyolomaster420 said:

Great to see you on board with the idea, but I have no idea what you meant to say with "because it will ne like they actual 4 episode in spite" (you probably could have phrased that better...)!

The episodes 1-3 was made by Romero, Hall and Petersen, with Petersen reworking Hall's levels after being fired. But the episode 4 was made by a new group of mappers, most of they being part of the community (Dr. Sleep, Tim Willits as example), this because Ult. Doom was released before Doom II, so yeah, this is similar since the entire episode will be (probably) made by the community mappers and not the Leader(?).

[epicyolomaster420]

17 minutes ago, Herr Dethnout said:

The episodes 1-3 was made by Romero, Hall and Petersen, with Petersen reworking Hall's levels after being fired. But the episode 4 was made by a new group of mappers, most of they being part of the community (Dr. Sleep, Tim Willits as example), this because Ult. Doom was released before Doom II, so yeah, this is similar since the entire episode will be (probably) made by the community mappers and not the Leader(?).

Yea probably since I don't plan on making any of these maps (my 20 maps are already proving more than enough of a challenge...), though I doubt we can get a whole episode's worth of levels (9 in total). I was envisioning this to be more along the lines of 2,3 or maybe 4 bonus levels all and all.

Also Ultimate Doom wasn't released before Doom2 . It was released on april 30th in 1995 wheras Doom2 was released 7 months earlier (september 30th 1994). I've fact checked this on the Doom Wiki, and you can also:

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_II

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Doom

[Herr Dethnout]

12 minutes ago, epicyolomaster420 said:

Yea probably since I don't plan on making any of these maps (my 20 maps are already proving more than enough of a challenge...), though I doubt we can get a whole episode's worth of levels (9 in total). I was envisioning this to be more along the lines of 2,3 or maybe 4 bonus levels all and all.

Also Ultimate Doom wasn't released before Doom2 . I've fact checked this on the Doom Wiki. It was released on april 30th in 1995 wheras Doom2 was released 7 months earlier (september 30th 1994):

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_II

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Doom

Oh yeah, I wanted to say after.

I'm tend to confuse after and before because "after" sound similar to "antes" in spanish, and that word means "before". :P

[Proxy-MIDI]

5 hours ago, epicyolomaster420 said:

@Herr Dethnout I was just thinking about the outline of a level you initaily sent to me as P1M9, before Razza decided to join and thought that it's a bit too good of a concept to just drop like I ultimately did, so I was thinking:

How about I give you complete freedom to finish the level how you want (no predetermined monster counts, no weapon/boss monster usage limitations & no requirements on how to start/finnish the level), put the level into e4m1 as a bonus level (that's not tied into the story in any way and is, like the name suggests, just an extra - a bonus) and give all my other mappers for this project (@Philnemba, @clamgor, @DavidN, @AnArchaicApparatus, @R0rque. & @Razza), the option of making a bonus level just like this as well if they want?

 

What do you all think?

 

P.S. : Inspite of the lack of all other restraints and requirements, the custom barons & caco's dehacked patch would still be need to be used for these maps... (they can't be included into episode 4 without it)

 

Alright. I'll do a short and more simple map this time. Of course, I'm available to make the soundtrack of the arriving maps. 

 

P.S : I guess you can keep the track that I've done for your map after all. :P @Herr Dethnout

[Herr Dethnout]

18 minutes ago, R0rque. said:

 

Alright. I'll do a short and more simple map this time. Of course, I'm available to make the soundtrack of the arriving maps. 

 

P.S : I guess you can keep the track that I've done for your map after all. :P @Herr Dethnout

Yup, the song is saved! (yay)

[epicyolomaster420]

Also @Herr Dethnout I'm curious: How goes your P1M1 map?

[epicyolomaster420]

@Herr Dethnout, @clamgor, @Philnemba, @AnArchaicApparatus, @DavidN, @R0rque., @Razza I'm currently watching a very interesting tutorial series on effective usage of monsters and their use in designing encounters in Doom/Doom2, that I think you'd all benefit from seeing:

 

 

also if your going to watch these videos I strongly recommend putting the videos on 1.25 or mybe even 1.5 speed cause as good as this guy's advice is he does talk quite slowly...

[Herr Dethnout]

6 hours ago, epicyolomaster420 said:

Also @Herr Dethnout I'm curious: How goes your P1M1 map?

Welp, there's not much progress since the last time I showed anything. After you said that the project will not have a release date yet then I decide to focus on other projects that I plan to release this month (well, is only one :P) and University heh.

If everything goes as I planned, the will continue in 12/11.

[Razza]

Alright, finished with E1M9 for now, but I'm always open to feedback. And please let me know if there are any bugs with the map (hopefully there shouldn't be any). Good luck to the rest of you!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PN2vAMNrWl05eZkOtKSXAr1keGBYJB-_/view?usp=share_link

 

 

[epicyolomaster420]

48 minutes ago, Razza said:

Alright, finished with E1M9 for now, but I'm always open to feedback. And please let me know if there are any bugs with the map (hopefully there shouldn't be any). Good luck to the rest of you!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PN2vAMNrWl05eZkOtKSXAr1keGBYJB-_/view?usp=share_link

 

 

Great work! I like the detailing you've done. Also it's only now that I've seen the rather fitting and clever map name that I realized what was the map's gimmick (before this I just though: OK there's monsters coming out the walls, that's cool, and never stopped to think about it that way...).

Also one more thing I wanted to say about your map the first time and forgot: I like how the central outside area is very reminescent of the final fight of doom2's map06 the crusher (I legit thought that was the gimmick the first time I played it...). 

[Razza]

1 hour ago, epicyolomaster420 said:

Great work! I like the detailing you've done. Also it's only now that I've seen the rather fitting and clever map name that I realized what was the map's gimmick (before this I just though: OK there's monsters coming out the walls, that's cool, and never stopped to think about it that way...).

Also one more thing I wanted to say about your map the first time and forgot: I like how the central outside area is very reminescent of the final fight of doom2's map06 the crusher (I legit thought that was the gimmick the first time I played it...). 

Thanks! I didn't realise until your comment that I never actually explained to you the gimmick I had for the map, whoops. But yeah, most of the monsters appear out of the walls, with the player doing the same wall-phasing into the exit room. Glad you like it though. And it's interesting to see that the central area reminded you of The Crusher, when i was actually trying to riff off of the starting area of Doom's original E1M9. Originally, the "building" in the middle was just going to be a large cage just like the one in E1M9, but i thought that would be a bit too on the nose (and lazy (and ugly)). So I thought "well if they're supposed to be coming out of the walls, why not make a building entirely out of mid-textures?" Well, almost entirely.

 

And a huge thank you to @R0rque. for going through the trouble to create a whole new midi for my map. I was ecstatic to have a completely original midi for my map, and he did not disappoint!

[Proxy-MIDI]

On 12/6/2022 at 9:57 AM, Razza said:

Alright, finished with E1M9 for now, but I'm always open to feedback. And please let me know if there are any bugs with the map (hopefully there shouldn't be any). Good luck to the rest of you!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PN2vAMNrWl05eZkOtKSXAr1keGBYJB-_/view?usp=share_link

 

 

 

My gosh, it fits so well ! <3

 

By the way, if you want me to make the bonus level tracks for everyone, it's on. ;)

[epicyolomaster420]

@DavidN, @Philnemba, @clamgor, @Razza I've just gotten a great idea for a bonus level, that uses the E4M6 action special that I've decided to make and turn into this megawad's very last level (bonus or otherwise...). What this essentialy means for you guys (and represents the reason I pinged you all) is that the amount of free bonus levels still up for grabs is now limited to 2 (I've decided that there will be no such thing as secret bonus levels which means that there will be a total of 6 bonus levels in regular progression, and out of these 6, 4 have already been claimed - I just claimed 1, Herr Dethnout and R0rque. claimed 1 each also and AnArchaicApparatus told me via discord he'd do 1 as well if there was space...)!

[Proxy-MIDI]

Good evening. I've finished the map. Tell me what are your impressions. Of course, here it is with the soundpack that I'm playing with if you're interested. ;)

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/7uwn3lhqx96e85p/NewSounds.WAD/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/x9zh9yyc9poe0px/The+Icon+of+SIMP+(E4M1+or+2).wad/file

 

P.S : You'll understand quickly why I've chosen as a title "The Icon of (S)imps". :P

 

P.S² : Obviously, the music is temporary. 

[epicyolomaster420]

9 hours ago, R0rque. said:

Good evening. I've finished the map. Tell me what are your impressions. Of course, here it is with the soundpack that I'm playing with if you're interested. ;)

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/7uwn3lhqx96e85p/NewSounds.WAD/file

https://www.mediafire.com/file/x9zh9yyc9poe0px/The+Icon+of+SIMP+(E4M1+or+2).wad/file

 

P.S : You'll understand quickly why I've chosen as a title "The Icon of (S)imps". :P

 

P.S² : Obviously, the music is temporary. 

OK I played the level and liked it, so I've included it into the wad. I couldn't really find anything wrong with the level, but I would say that the initial area is quite punishing and could use a green armor at the start. Also as fun as rocketing imps is it does get a bit tiresome at the end (if you are say going for a UV max or something...) so I'd suggest placing a BFG or a cyberdemon on the top outer most floor of the initial arena to help with the clean-up.

Also it seems your still using a diffrent version of OTEX than me as I once again had to switch out all the OTEX flat's who's name starts with 0 with those that start with O, so I'd suggest using this updated version if you're going to be making any updates (attached below).

Also since I've recently taken on another level I will be needing you to produce a MIDI for it (E4M6). Now normaly I'd send you a similar song to replicate for it or try to describe the level to you, but truth be told I don't even know what I want, and don't really see the need for a description either as the level is practicaly 80% done so my suggestion for you is this: Play the level/check it out in the editor for yourself and just produce a MIDI that would, in your opinion, fit it best.

I've attached here the latest version of the Cleanout wad (with both your level with the flat name modifications - E4M2, and my new level, that needs a MIDI - E4M6):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wn1l4gecn8bia3j/Cleanout_22.zip?dl=0

Edited December 11, 2022 by epicyolomaster420 : fixed typo

[epicyolomaster420]

@R0rque. You know how I said in my previous post that I hadn't selected a temporary song for my new level yet and that I don't even know what kind of MIDI I want ?

Well that has now changed. You see I found this really nice eviternity MIDI that I think works well for it that I have now included in:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iwya9oa8z7bdtjb/Cleanout_23.zip?dl=0

Now since I know that making a similar song to this, may be a bit late of an ask (if you've started making the MIDI already) I've decided that I won't be asking this of you, but I would ask however that you at least listen to it and use it for context...

I hope this isn't too much to ask. Also if you have any question, be sure to let me know!

[Proxy-MIDI]

Alright. I'll give you the MIDI file when I'll have finished the others for another project than I'm "working" on. :P @epicyolomaster420

[epicyolomaster420]

@R0rque. Here is the finished version of my new level - E4M6 (the one that needs a MIDI):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1s5cksluqt45ai/Cleanout_25.zip?dl=0

(I reccomend you play this one rather then the 80% finished one from my last 2 updates because... obvious reasons - the 80% finished one isn't even completable without cheaths and is missing 2 areas...).

Edited December 14, 2022 by epicyolomaster420 : updated the zip

[epicyolomaster420]

@Razza, @Philnemba, @clamgor Do any of you actually intend on claiming a bonus level or should I give the option away to other people (I'm thinking of opening up the 2 yet unclaimed slots to other members of the doom community - people not yet involved in Cleanout)?

[Razza]

I don't think i'll make another map for this, sorry mate

[Proxy-MIDI]

Hello there @epicyolomaster420. Here come the MIDI file for your level AND for my level. You can count that as a tribute too. :P

 

Well, I was pretty uninspired for this track. My apologies... >_<

Bonus Level Epicy'.zip