The Queen is Dead. Long Live the King.

[DSC]

3 minutes ago, Decay said:

Probably the most entertaining word in this entire wordsalad thread

Its not the first time I've typed the word here BTW. If you go on my post history you can find some older mentions too.

[Mr Masker]

While I don't agree completely with the idea of a Monarchy in this day and age, the idea of being born into royalty, etc... 

 

I still respect the Queen and her long reign on the throne, and it's surreal to see that end, using this event as an opertunity to be all "down with the monarchy" and all that feels a bit in poor taste. I believe you should be allowed to have that opinion absolutely, the country has done that to themselves, but there's a time and a place. Just my 2 cents

 

RIP

Edited September 9, 2022 by Mr Masker

[Naarok0fkor]

9 hours ago, Sonikkumania said:

But this year Gorbachov and now Elizabeth has passed away, anybody want to place a bet who will be next?

Either Donald Trump, Vladimir Poutine or Kim Jong-Un would do nicely...Not Spielberg yet...

[ReaperAA]

2 hours ago, DSC said:

Damn, Doocialist Forums comes at it full force again! This time however, I don't know how to feel. Like the many of you I oppose monarchism, colonialism and imperialism based on principle. So, its not like I felt incredibly sad at the news... Yet, I can't help but be somewhat sorry. She's had a long reign throughout the years, more than half a century, my entire life I always saw the Queen as the face of the UK, and to know that immense presence has just gone out forever in only a moment is indeed a odd feeling. She didn't seem like a terrible person either, always very nice and charismatic, at least on the outside. When its a dictator shitbag that dies its easy to celebrate, but in cases like this I honestly don't know what to say.

 

Totally agreed with this. I too despise monarchism and colonialism (especially as someone's whose ancestors had to endure the East India Company). But despite that, I do kind of feel slightly sad. Not a whole lot mind you, but I will miss her mainly due to the immense presence she had. She was the icon of UK at this point.

 

Also absolutely love the term Doocialist. Gonna be using it from now on if a DW thread goes too political.

[mrthejoshmon]

I must say that as a Brit, I have never expected to actually witness any historical moments of any significance at all.

 

One of the longest reigning monarchs have passed, this is fairly significant, yet all I see is shitposting.

 

I love the modern world, the absurdity is wonderful.

[DJVCardMaster]

4 hours ago, Herr Dethnout said:

 

Well, I can understand his reaction. Argentina and GB has a complex relationship because Falklands dispute.

It is not like that, only regular Argies hate England or the UK because of that, they don't have any education whatsoever, British people respects us, and think the rivalry is only a football thing, which is like that for me. Sadly, most of the country can't accept that we invaded the islands under a de facto government, yet, they condemn everything the de facto government did, except for that. As we call this people here, thermo heads, they can't distinguish warm or cold, black or white. 
Santiago Cuneo is an ex-military, ultra-nationalist and quite fascist guy, every week he is TT on Social Media because he only speaks shouting and insulting everything, which, sounds fun, but at the same time, disgusting, but he's being flashy only for the views, I guess.
The Falklands dispute is just a way to generate ideologic hatred. The islands were never ours, and if they were, they aren't now, we lost them in a war, fair and square (Sadly). Not only that, but islanders won't feel too welcome to be part of a country that never could stabilize its economy, so I totally understand their view. It's just a toxic relationship.

Monarchy is a thing from medieval times, but I can respect the image of the Queen for what it represents, besides, comparing her to most of the world leaders of the last century, she was quite a "good person", specially comparing her to the last 25 years of government from my country, or the entire latin-american subcontinent.

[Kityn]

Queen deserves some respect!

 

[Master O]

10 minutes ago, DJVCardMaster said:

The Falklands dispute is just a way to generate ideologic hatred. The islands were never ours, and if they were, they aren't now, we lost them in a war, fair and square (Sadly). Not only that, but islanders won't feel too welcome to be part of a country that never could stabilize its economy, so I totally understand their view. It's just a toxic relationship.
 

 

And on top of that, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum as well, so for all intents and purposes, that issue has long since been settled.

 

[Somniac]

I'm British, but I've never been a monarchist. That said, the death of someone who's been part of our collective consciousness for over 70 years does hit in a slightly unexpected way. I can't ignore the dark irony of this happening just as the UK is at possibly the lowest point it's been at for a long time. While some might sneer at the notion that "the entire country lost its grandmother", it does sort of feel like that. The impact will be relative depending on where you come from and if you believe in monarchies or not, I suppose. 

 

We're all paying for the state funeral too, by the way. Because of course. What this does highlight to me is the fact that we're very much a feudal nation LARPing as a democracy. I don't believe that monarchies are the type of leadership structures needed to navigate the increasingly complex 21st century world. Hell, the Queen might as well have just been a figurehead. We have a cost-of-living crisis happening, and watch now as the media does everything it possibly can to make people feel like a 96 year-old woman reaching the very much expected end of her life, is "more important". They already did, actually. That part sickens me. Legit democratic processes will be shut down as a "mark of respect", and it'll be very interesting to see what our venal politicians will attempt to slip through in the background while everyone's distracted by this. Nothing good, you can bet. 

[Herr Dethnout]

5 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

It is not like that, only regular Argies hate England or the UK because of that, they don't have any education whatsoever, British people respects us, and think the rivalry is only a football thing, which is like that for me.

I mean, I can understand that feeling. Here, in my country have a similar dispute (TL;DR Britains took a big part of terrain that was claimed by Venezuela and won a cleary not corrupted and unfair trial) used now as a excuse to avoid talk about how "great" our goverment is...

Btw I don't think is just football, remember what happened with Iron Maiden lol

 

5 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

Santiago Cuneo is an ex-military, ultra-nationalist and quite fascist guy, every week he is TT on Social Media because he only speaks shouting and insulting everything, which, sounds fun, but at the same time, disgusting, but he's being flashy only for the views, I guess.

One time I watched a video of him talking about the Patagonia (and jews), It was really funny, but sad at the same time because people use them as a example of "luk da righ wing is baaaadddd" (I'm not right winger but I hate when people use this kind of person to generalize)
 

 

5 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

Monarchy is a thing from medieval times, but I can respect the image of the Queen for what it represents, besides, comparing her to most of the world leaders of the last century, she was quite a "good person", specially comparing her to the last 25 years of government from my country, or the entire latin-american subcontinent.

Agree, although the only Monarchy (or Theocracy) I support is the Vatican.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Herr Dethnout

[El Juancho]

 

[DJVCardMaster]

3 hours ago, Herr Dethnout said:

Btw I don't think is just football, remember what happened with Iron Maiden lol

 

Here, metalheads are nationalists, nationalists here hate every single thing that symbolizes the UK, also, they can't distinguish the difference between Scotland, England, the UK, the British Islands, and so on.
Doing that on a concert in Argentina was just a stupid move, or Iron Maiden just wanted to trigger Argies just because of edgyness.

[D0M0]

It did come as quite a shock, the fact it happened so soon. As someone that lives in England it was fairly upsetting, since the Queen had done a lot for the United Kingdom as a whole along with charity work, and ruling over a nation for 70 years consistently is a ridiculous task and a phenomenal thing to do. Her reputation will definitely go down in history for notorious reasons.

 

I'm not too involved with the royal family, it's not really something I read about regularly or talk about during my day. But stuff like this is basically unavoidable, no matter where you are, you will have heard the queen is dead. Having said this, the way a lot of people have responded to this news is sour and disgusting, to joke about someones death (this pretty much goes for anyone) is just an asshole thing to do. Some things people do for attention are just inhuman icl.

[Skeletonpatch]

I find it interesting that so many here are so quick to decry and dismiss any validity in the concept of a monarchy when I've never been convinced that democracy or whatever other governmental power structure one supports is any better. While the idea of a monarch being appointed and gaining authority via God or some other religious institution does not resonate with me, I do not see the very idea of someone being raised from birth to rule as inherently heinous in and of itself. In my opinion, those who seek power are rarely those who deserve it and those who are deserving will rarely seek it. All I need to do is take a cursory glance at any given selection of democratically elected leaders to confirm this position for myself. Will a lot of bad people end up on the throne? Absolutely, but not every person that wears a crown will abuse their power and intentionally bring suffering to their subjects. If my assertion on those who seek power is correct, then it honestly seems less likely to me that genuinely good-hearted leaders will be sworn in under democratic practices, but as democracies tend to have rather short terms the statistical probability that a few will get in from time to time does shoot up.

 

As for colonialism and imperialism, yeah, those are indefensible from a moral standpoint but I don't see how they're intrinsically tied to monarchies either. It will be hard to convince me that colonialism doesn't happen within modern democratic systems, especially when most modern democratic powers were built on colonial foundations. Individual wars under traditional monarchies may have been much more common but I feel that is simply due to technological advances allowing fewer seats of power to control much larger regions in the modern day, which reduces the total number of world leaders and thus statistically decreases the chances for conflict. However, thanks to that same technological advance the conflicts that do happen are on a much larger scale and have much higher stakes.

 

My basic thesis on government power structures, regardless of which flavour is chosen, is that it will only work if the right person is put in charge. Considering that some absolute monsters have been put in power by democracy and monarchy alike, I don't see how one is objectively superior to the other. The same is true of any government that follows some form of ranking system

 

Anyways, I'm sure that plenty will want to argue with me but I'm honestly not interested in doing so. Am I ignorant and/or full of shit? Probably. I haven't named any specific leaders here since I'm not interested in arguing about the potential vices or virtues of any specific person. While I'm not convinced that democracy is any better than monarchy I am certainly complicit in and directly benefit from democratic power structures. Does that make me a hypocrite? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

 

As for the topic of the thread, I am saddened by Queen Elizabeth II's passing but I'm not familiar enough with King Charles III to make a judgement on him. The fact that I could have a casual conversation with my parents over who would make the better king, Charles or William, whilst living in a democratic country like Canada, is oddly comforting to me for some reason. My dad says William is the better pick and Charles should abdicate.

 

I value life much too highly to celebrate the loss of one, even if it's someone I think the world would be better without. There is no evil, only misguidance. Obviously I don't put the Queen in that category, but it seems that many here do.

 

May Queen Elizabeth II Rest Peacefully.

[Aaron Blain]

11 hours ago, Rudolph said:

A satirical take on the passing of Elizabeth II: [Luna video]

Dang, beat me to it! I don't watch much of her but this one is brilliant.

 

DW has a pretty international community, so I wouldn't expect too many tears shed for British royalty, but they got in most of their really heavy-duty mass-murdering before Elizabeth's time. She was more of a pop culture icon than anything else. Kissinger and Cheney are much more deserving of animosity.

[Master O]

1 minute ago, Aaron Blain said:

Dang, beat me to it! I don't watch much of her but this one is brilliant.

 

DW has a pretty international community, so I wouldn't expect too many tears shed for British royalty, but they got in most of their really heavy-duty mass-murdering before Elizabeth's time. She was more of a pop culture icon than anything else. Kissinger and Cheney are much more deserving of animosity.

When did Britain invade Japan? 

[Herr Dethnout]

5 hours ago, DJVCardMaster said:

Here, metalheads are nationalists, nationalists here hate every single thing that symbolizes the UK, also, they can't distinguish the difference between Scotland, England, the UK, the British Islands, and so on.
Doing that on a concert in Argentina was just a stupid move, or Iron Maiden just wanted to trigger Argies just because of edgyness.

iirc They do that every time when playing The Trooper. It was a bad idea but people should know that they're an British Band and do that frequently lol

[wallabra]

On 9/8/2022 at 11:24 PM, Mr. Freeze said:

I'm saving my "well thank God they're dead" takes for when Sanders and/or Corbyn bite it. 

 

Why Bernie? What's bad about him?

 

Anyway I sympathize with @DSC – it definitely feels weird that the Queen is suddenly gone. It is good to know how to respect the deceased; if nothing else, manners are a way to let people know you don't see the world in a black and white manner like so many muricans do. Of course material concerns matter and even supersede, but it doesn't mean that having manners is bad, even if sometimes they're a bit overrated.

 

10 hours ago, El juancho said:

[vid]

 

It's funny, Brazil has always had ties to the UK ever since its independence. In a way, it became effectively an economical colony of the UK, and later in history the US, though the UK does have some economical influence here to this day, such as in the illegal gold prospecting of the Amazon.

[Captain red pants]

She died of old age, in a literal palace surrounded by jewels and armed guards. Nothing the most dedicated republican could say is going to change the fact that she pretty much won.

Still gonna lol though

Edited September 10, 2022 by Captain red pants : fixing some grammer

[pilottobombadier]

I'm not a monarchist, I really couldn't give a flying fuck about that.  But I am a humanist. 

It sucks for the decent members of that family, having to publicly (regardless of whatever the cost of what they do is) grieve for what is a mother, aunt, grandmother, etc. 

 

It isn't something that most of us are ever forced to do; we get to experience our grief with all the people that our lost love ones mattered to on more than just a superficial level, and do not have to share that with anyone that we don't want to.

All of the money, all of the jewels, all of the possessions in the world, cannot refill that loss in people that genuinely cared about Queen Elizabeth II from a deeper perspective, and I'm not talking about fans of the monarchy and the gossip that surrounds them, who have no idea what emotions they're tapping into that they're not entitled to.

Those of us firing off at the monarchy, yeah, they have too much means that they shouldn't be entitled to (which is probably why some members bust their asses to give back).  But try to let them grieve in peace. 

Some of them are actually sincere and hurting deeply - and it's not for us to judge whom, because their emotions are their own, not ours - and the less of the public they have to share that with, the fewer snippy comments that they read or have read to them, will be a kindness.  This is a time and event in any one's life that you, I, or anyone else would be hurt much deeper by the twisted knife than usual.  Some of them are, as human beings, already overwhelmed. 

Stop trying to make it harder.

[Rudolph]

5 hours ago, pilottobombadier said:

But try to let them grieve in peace. 

Dude, it is a thread on a video game forum. The Royal Family is not going to care about what is posted here.

 

Also, they are not a random bunch of private citizens: they are a bunch of people who think they have a divine right to rule over people and have been enjoying all the wealth and clout that come with it. If they do not like being part of the monarchy anymore, they can always, you know, abolish it. Or at the very least, step away from it, like Meghan Markle and her husband did.

 

@Aaron Blain Ultimately, the point of the video is to make fun of the mainstream media for the ways it otherizes people in foreign countries.

 

But yeah, fuck Henry Kissinger.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Rudolph

[wallabra]

51 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Also, they are not a random bunch of private citizens: they are a bunch of people who think they have a divine right to rule over people. If they do not like being part of the monarchy, they can always, you know, abolish it. Or at the very least, step away from it, like Meghan Markle and her husband did.

 

If we are being very fair, and I do realize I'm being the devil's advocate here, royal family members must be pretty much indoctrinated from upbringing into believing in the royal family, and in the "goodness" of Britain and of capitalism and wealth, and all that stuff. And they can't choose to be born in the royal family.

 

But whatever; we can sympathize with something, and still, to an extent, oppose it, on the grounds of, I dunno, class struggle or something.

[Rudolph]

6 minutes ago, wallabra said:

And they can't choose to be born in the royal family.

True, but they can always step away from it or even better downright disavow it.

 

[wallabra]

8 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

True, but they can always step away from it or even better downright disavow it.

The point is that the indoctrination could get in the way of that. If they could get back in their senses, I'm pretty sure most of them would just outright abolish it as soon as they did.

[Solmyr]

12 hours ago, Master O said:

When did Britain invade Japan? 

Maybe it's referring to the British occupation of Japan during the aftermath of WW2. 

 

Japan did take Brittish controled territories during WW2 and also tired to invade Australia and India which were part of the British Empire at the time so Britain had a justification to occupy Japan alongside the US forces after the japanese surrendered. 

[Aaron Blain]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

 

@Aaron BlainUltimately, the point of the video is to make fun of the mainstream media for the ways it otherizes people in foreign countries.

Yeah, it's specifically taking the techniques of anticommunist propaganda and applying them to England. The only thing missing is unconfirmed reports of thousands of people being executed by firing squad for having the same haircut as the Supreme Leader Elizabeth, and thousands of people being executed by firing squad for not having the same haircut as the Supreme Leader Elizabeth.

 

But, again, she wasn't one of the main decision-makers or even one of the main beneficiaries of imperialism.

[wallabra]

1 hour ago, Aaron Blain said:

But, again, she wasn't one of the main decision-makers or even one of the main beneficiaries of imperialism.

 

She was a symbol, and unapologetically too. She was a filthy landowner, and mother of multiple paedophiles. I think that is more than enough for well-deserved public repulsion and condemnation.

 

Do yourself and your mental health a favour. Mourn in public, crab rave in private.

 

 

As to North Korea, it definitely is wild in a number of ways. We do have access to its Constitution outside of it, so it would be unwise to make false claims that could easily be dispelled by some random Google-fu-er next door (yes, even though people are often too "lazy" to research things themselves these days!). It has its problems and we're not gonna touch on them in depth in this thread, but Juche is just yet another strain of Leninism, which the left has debunked before Lenin was even born, through figures such as Bakunin, who ominously once told Marx that his dictatorship of the proletariat would always devolve into a dictatorship over the proletariat.

[Biodegradable]

Honestly, @mouldy has the best take on the situation:

 

 

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, wallabra said:

mother of multiple paedophiles

Multiple? I know about Prince Andrew, but who are the others?

[Aaron Blain]

47 minutes ago, wallabra said:

 

She was a symbol, and unapologetically too. She was a filthy landowner, and mother of multiple paedophiles. I think that is more than enough for well-deserved public repulsion and condemnation.

A symbol, yes, but materially speaking not among the worst bad actors. I don't disagree with you though.

 

I'm currently working my way through the core of the anarchist canon. I didn't find Proudhon's What is Property? or Bakunin's Statism and Anarchy very compelling or persuasive, but I'm trying to steel-man my picture of anarchism as best I can. Moving on to Kropotkin and Malatesta next, but that's a subject for a different thread.