How to get good?

[7x47]

I very recently just got into DOOM and it's a great game and all but how do I actually get good xd. I can play through the DOOM 2 campaign on UV, but wads such as Plutonia on HMP completely destroy me. Any tips for new comers like myself? 

(Sorry for being the 9999th person to ask.)

 

Thanks.

[BigBoy91]

Don't just keep playing. There's definitely a shortcut that will unlock your potential.

[7x47]

1 minute ago, BigBoy91 said:

Don't just keep playing. There's definitely a shortcut that will unlock your potential.

Okay, could you possibly give me a WAD that isn't gonna rip the shit outta me but also isn't gonna powder my ass?

[DuckReconMajor]

A couple links

 

https://dsdarchive.com/advice

and

[7x47]

1 minute ago, DuckReconMajor said:

A couple links

 

https://dsdarchive.com/advice

and

Appreciated, thanks!

[Dark Pulse]

Shoot the cyberdemon until it dies.

 

More seriously, just practice. The key thing to remember in Doom is that you are always faster than the monsters (unless you're running with Fast monsters), and speed/maneuverability is your #1 defense. Use it.

[7x47]

Just now, Dark Pulse said:

Shoot the cyberdemon until it dies.

My skill levels went from a 3 to a 10

 

[maxmanium]

I know it's not an exciting answer but I really do think it all just boils down to practice. Though I couldn't list them out, there are countless gameplay situations which you know how to approach after being exposed to them.

[7x47]

1 minute ago, maxmanium said:

I know it's not an exciting answer but I really do think it all just boils down to practice. Though I couldn't list them out, there are countless gameplay situations which you know how to approach after being exposed to them.

Yeah, I know there is no specific advice you can give. It all depends, do you have BFG? Shells? What's your health? I understand it all varies.

[maxmanium]

One all-around tip I can give is to remember that infighting is a thing, and to try to use it to your advantage. It may actually be a necessity in some maps or scenarios, but at the very least it can save ammo, and maybe health.

[Doomkid]

Hey now, these videos are ALWAYS great, fairly specific advice to give to newcomers asking how to git gud:

 

 

 

[Doomkid]

Also, another tip: try to deathmatch against other humans every now and again. It'll make you so much more adept at quickly moving through levels and reacting to any movement/sound in a split second. You'll be head and shoulders above the average Doomer with just a few months of PVP play mixed in with your standard SP Doomin'!

[Naarok0fkor]

Try my WAD...

https://www.moddb.com/mods/guntoberfest/downloads/naarok0fkor-guntoberfest-2022

[HeatedChocolate]

Always, ALWAYS use monsters as meatshields whenever possible. Pinkies and mancubi are great at functioning like this. Mancubi cause they're fat and slow, pinkies because they get in the way. Not only does using them as shields potentially trigger them to attack whoever hit 'em, saving you ammo, but it also works as cover against almost everything short of an archvile, giving you valuable cover when up against chaingunners or swarms of homing revenant missiles.

[HeatedChocolate]

Another tip, but for acclimation for more challenging stuff: Try out some slaughter-lite to get used to running circles around gobs of enemies. Recommendations from me are the end of Lutz's Corrupted Cistern (Try to fire nothing as a fun challenge) and MAP19 of AUGER;ZENITH, (Which are very good wads, would highly recommend both of them).

Edited October 12, 2022 by HeatedChocolate

[7x47]

All of the tips are appreciated!

[akolai]

Playing harder maps should do the trick, but while you're at it, whenever you die, try to pin down what caused it - knowing what you're doing wrong is always a good start. Saveless runs are great when you're able to, since it forces consistency in play, and more effective problem solving (as long as it's consistently challenging, i.e. you're not blazing past everything except for one specific fight).

Just playing and 'practicing' more will work, but the fastest way is to work out what your specific weaknesses are, and target those areas in particular.

I'll also take a moment to rep a video by a mate of mine, it's put together well and has plenty of useful advice.

 

[StodgyAyatollah]

There is the "just play more" advice that is solid but applies to anything. Part of that is developing muscle memory. The other is familiarity. With the former that is all practice. The latter is mostly as well but there are things you can pay attention to that will help. Doom gameplay generally revolves around three things. Movement, weapons and monsters. Movement is more than just avoiding damage. You can also manipulate the enemy ai to great benefit. Herding mobs or causing infighting for example. There are also quirks like strafe running that become second nature in time. There are more subtle things like how damaging floor tick damage correlates to the weapon bob animation so you can know when to make a dash over poison without taking damage. For weapons it's learning what they are best at. Two big things here are maximizing splash damage with rockets and mastering the bfg's unique mechanics. Monsters are the big one and a small novel could probably be written on them. Generally though just pay attention to them to figure out their quirks. For example mancs always shoot in the same angled pattern. First to their left, then right then left. Some people suggest harder wads but I say play what you enjoy. I rarely play full wads. Instead I jump around trying different levels in them and play the ones I enjoy. Dsda-doom is nice for this since it has a button to skip to the next map. Another good tool is making your own practice maps. Want to get better at two shoting cybers? Throw a bfg and cyber in a basic room and have at it. You can also watch others play on YouTube, twitch or whatever to learn about some of the more nuanced mechanics but that depends on if the person is mentioning those things as they play. Number one though is to just have fun with it.

[Lucius Wooding]

Some strategies that are really good are counterintuitive to new players.

 

One tip is that running full speed isn't always a great idea, sometimes it's much better to just tap the movement keys a bit. It can either be a matter of herding monsters more to one side of a room and timing when you slip past a crowd, or making better use of a small space dodging projectiles. One scenario would be fighting cyberdemons in a narrow hallway at mid range; it's intuitive to dash side to side to miss the rockets by the biggest margin possible, but actually you'll take less risk just being patient and moving as little as possible. Rockets should never hit the walls and you'll eat up far less space as a result. Plus this is ideal for setting up a BFG rush, rather than panicking and building up momentum that throws off the timing. You're on your own if you're playing fast monsters though. My IRL friend constantly died SSGing a cyber in one of my maps because he was so terrified of the rockets he'd take splash damage repeatedly by dodging too close to the walls or staying too far back near the rear walls. I'm able to no damage the same fight just by staying in the middle third of the room.

 

Another tip is that if you see a wall of revenants coming towards you or on a platform, it's often better to go close to them than run away. A certain fight in Sunlust map 14 gave me fits until I learned you could just kite the revenants from short range, where they can't shoot. This created a lot of space in a figure eight type arena and made a huge difference to rocket viability. If revenants are on a platform or monster blocking sector, you can even turn your back on them if you're at the proper range since they'll be stuck between their attacks. One unreleased map of mine uses this to help players with crowd control; the instinct is to deal with the revenants early since they're a menace and there isn't much cover, but actually herding the pinkies and imps is far more crucial and more doable with the light weaponry you have at that point. You can just stall in front of them and pick off a couple enemies while mooning the skeletons until you can move past everything and find a better position.

 

Also, play hard stuff that's somewhat within your realm of skill, and look up strats or demos if you struggle. Even pistol starting or no saving something you've beaten can help your consistency since it'll be a lot more punishing. But saving and even using cheats can be very helpful to practice maps, or beat stuff that's really tough for now.

[Pseudonaut]

At this stage, just keep playing. You'll improve. Do whatever keeps the game fun, perhaps try some custom wads for variety. Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Lunatic, and Vanguard are all amazing and have difficulty settings implemented, but I'm not familiar with them below UV so it's hard to say if you'll find them more manageable than Plutonia on HMP. Don't be afraid to try HNTR or ITYTD; custom wads are often much harder than the original games (the ones I mentioned above are just a little bit harder than Plutonia on UV, IMO).

 

Not strictly necessary when you're new to the game, but eventually, it's important to do some saveless runs, probably playing the map with saves first to prepare. Individual fights can be played repeatedly this way to ensure you're ready for them when you get there in the real run. I suggest picking some challenging maps that you really like, long enough that you would normally save on them but not ridiculously long. Personally, Plutonia was one of the first mapsets I played this way.

[deleted-account]

Here's my tips

1. Learn how to prioritize which monsters to fight
2. Learn which weapon to use for the right job...

Examples: 
-SSG/Shotgun for when you have lots of cover and maneuverable space 
-Chaingun for lots of hitscanners and sniping long range (shotgun can also do this in a pinch) 
-Plasma Rifle to stunlock dangerous mid-tier enemies 
-know how the BFG's cone of damage works

3. Try pistol starting maps you already know well
4. Plutonia is very cheap in it's difficulty curve compared to Doom II. 
Play Memento Mori I/II, TNT Evilution, Anomaly Report, D2TWID, Doom Zero, NRFTL, and Perdition's Gate first to get some practice in with different map styles before you tackle the big Plutonia.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Robo_Cola

[sandwedge]

Play a lot of Doom, turn always run on if you haven't, do whatever keeps you playing the game and having fun, and most importantly... meet Doomkid in the arena to test your true skill

[Jiggahertz]

12 minutes ago, sandwedge said:

turn always run on if you haven't

Yeah, no

[sandwedge]

16 minutes ago, Jiggahertz said:

Yeah, no

 

Lol I mean you don't have to but you should be holding down the run key basically at all times.  Running all the time made we way better at the game, so unless you have a very strong pinky finger I would suggest it.  However I have been surprised at some people who don't turn on always run, so your mileage may vary.

[Toastd]

I spend way more time running than walking in Doom, so having the extra key press being for the less common action makes sense to me.

[Lucius Wooding]

Unless you're playing some 1000IQ platforming map and need to do setups, or you prefer to use a small weight to hold down the run key at all times instead of turning that option on, it's just better to run all the time and tap the movement keys if you want less than full speed. The scenarios where going slow are better are pretty much limited to platforming tbh. You'll have a bad time with revenant homing missiles if you're not at full speed, and it's very possible a newer player might make the mistake of dropping speed if it's mapped to an uncomfortable button without really realizing it.

 

In fact I'd go as far as to say you should get comfortable with SR40 straferunning; not all the time but it gives you a huge advantage in speed which is massive in a game where movement is such a big part of skill. A lot of people will rely on straight line running and just never develop the habit of using SR40, it will reduce hurtfloor damage and help you hide from attacks like archvile flames where frames count. SR50 is fancy and only useful in specific situations, unless you're going for godlike sequence breaks and tricks like in speedrunning. Generally it's considered a fundamental skill to use SR40 but SR50 is usually not an intended mechanic except in very niche maps.

[Soll]

5 hours ago, 7x47 said:

Plutonia on HMP completely destroy me

Yeah I remeber that feeling of being plutonically crushed playing that wad. It took me over 8 months to finish plutonia, including multiple-month breaks (the final room in MAP09 put me off doom for 3 months straight). But after beating it and looking back, I realized plutonia taught me many things such as movement, prioritization of enemies, the importance of proper routing, appropriate weapon usage, among other things. Plutonia is your trial by fire, and if you commit to getting good at doom, when you come out in the end, it will be a rewarding payoff.

 

TNT is usually the wad most people would recommend as an alternative to those who were brutalized by plutonia, and i would recommend it too, just beware that it was made during the infancy of the doom modding community, so several design choices and combat scenarios are quite bizarre and sometimes unfair (you might have heard about the legends of TNT's hitscan hell). NRFTL and Sigil are also (somewhat) official wads that you should keep an eye out.

 

As for community wads,

 

Scythe is another wad that should be great for skill improvement. The first 20 maps should be doable for someone at your skill level, but the last 10 are literal hell (literally). Whenever you get to a map fully coated in red hellish rocks, do not proceed any further, not until you've beaten at least plutonia on UV, and have sufficient demon boxing skills. Also, MAP30 is much higher in difficulty than the last 9 maps (i know, scythe be wildin on the difficulty), I recommend playing other wads first to build up skills and tolerance before tackling it.

 

Perdition's Gate is also something for newcomers who've beaten doom 2 on uv. Most maps, but especially the later ones, are compact, usually with less than 10 fights per map, similar to Scythe and Plutonia, but much easier than those 2. 

 

Rush is also a wad worth checking out if you wanna dabble in the madness that is slaughtermaps. I'm going through Rush myself, currently at MAP10 and enjoying it quite a bit. Again, plutonia uv is recommended before attempting anything past MAP01.

 

I'm sure other people can give more wad recommendations for you, so I want to talk about one thing I don't see many people talk about: Tyson skills.

 

Imagine you're at the tail-end of an over-30-minute map, you got 0 on all types of ammo, and a baron is still roaming around the exit. Are you going to quit, flushing all that time down the drain? It depends. Does the map have a berserk pack? No, then yeah, it's probably a good idea to restart. Yes, then it's boxing time.

 

The berserk pack is so much more than just a healing item. It can be your saviour in situations where your guns can no longer sing. Punching demons is great for conserving and managing ammo. It may sound trivial, the concept of ammo management in Doom, but in wads such as Scythe, and multiple BPRD works, you'll feel the ammo crunch stronger than ever. It may not sound very interesting, but acquiring demon punching skills is a very worthwhile endeavour. I once scoffed at the concept of punching demons, but slowly and surely, i was drawn towards the idea. I practiced bit by bit through each wad i play, and now I can punch hell knights and barons without taking damage quite consistently (I know some people can punch out cyberdemons, but i'm not a doom god lol). That's how I made it through Going Down MAP03.

 

A good place to start is Doom 1's E2M2. It has a beserk pack right at the start and is inhabited almost exclusively by imps and pinkies, the two types of monsters easiest to punch. Start with pinkies, as they do not have a range attack, so you can just move in and out of its melee range to land a hit. Timing is key in punching monsters. Practice so you can feel the rhythm of each monster's attack pattern. Then you can go to the imp, which is a bit trickier but it also goes down faster. the trick is not to rush headlong into one as it can shoot a fireball at you, but rather approach it in a curved trajectory, punch it, and pull back out. Once you've mastered that, you've gotten through the hard part. Most other projectile demons are just imp variations. Rush MAP01 and Scythe MAP27 are also great for practicing your tyson skills, especially Scythe MAP27, with more enemy variety and tight spaces demanding constant movement and awareness of your surrounding (though keep in mind the gameplay of these maps are not are not tyson-only, check out Going Down MAP03 for a pure tyson experience).

 

Of course, there are a couple of quirks with specific monsters that would alter your approach to punching them. One example is the revenant, who has a dead zone where he would not shoot a projectile at you, and he does not shoot a projectile if he misses his melee attack. Big demons such as the mancubus, arachnotrons, cacodemons and spiderdemons are much harder to box, since their hitbox is kinda janky. decino's analysis videos go into more details about these quirks, as well as multiple other analysis videos made by the community, so give them a watch. 

 

Okay, that should be everything from me. idk why i even made this monstrosity of a reply lol. Maybe i'm just really passionate about this game, or i'm just insane. Either way, it's very late now so i'll go to bed. Hope you succeed in your doom journey and be a part of this fine community for many years to come.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Soll

[Ragu]

The Doom 2 > TNT > Plutonia path worked for me. One of the most important things is to acclimate yourself to fighting the monsters that make you panic the most -- archies, revs, and cybers for me (and most everyone, probably). Either throw yourself against maps full of them over and over again, or simply find a good fight to practice against them and learn their ins and outs. Once you stop going full fight-or-flight at the mere mention of an archvile, you'll find everything is a lot more manageable than it seemed. Also, learn find the humor in getting wrecked by really mean traps. That last one for Plutonia, especially.

[philcul]

3 hours ago, Pseudonaut said:

[...] it's important to do some saveless runs [...]

 

Why would that be important in any scenario besides wanting to do demos?

[TheSlipgateStudios]

To kill the demon, shoot at it until it dies.