I dream of H3

[Fletcher`]

As you probably saw, a while ago, some of us(mainly me and DSM) started rambling about ideas for a Hexen 3, possibly for the Doom3 engine. What would you want in it? Hopes for it? Dreams of it? What kind of storyline? Where to go? What to do?

What would you want to see in something like this? Mind you, this is only an if & maybe, As there are *NO* official plans. (at least that I know of)

[dsm]

BBG and I are writing up an "idea sheet" for character classes (including weapons and how we want them to work), monsters, bosses setting and backstory.

Once I've made up enough ideas and made the idea sheet remotely complete, I'll post it bit by bit.

So far I can tell that I definitely want it to be more a la HeXen 1 than HeXen 2, but with some elements from HX2 - that is, I want it to take place back on Cronos again (we barely know anything about that world - I wanna hear more about its history and the peoples there etc.) and I want some character classes that are a little more remiscent of the original three (the Paladin in Hx2 looked like a wuss imo - let's see a big, badass looking warrior with spiky shoulder plates and all).

In addition, I want primarily rehashed HeXen 1 enemies and a few (slightly changed) HeXen 2 enemies or Hx2 inspired enemies (an example would be a "modified" werepanther/-jaguar which is more of an assassin than straight footsoldier warrior).

[Fletcher`]

So, basically, a retelling of Hexen?

I was thinking of extending the storyline beyond the serpent riders. What spawned them? Is the Chaos orb completely destroyed with Eidolon? Is there a chance of them being ressurected by whatever spawned them? What happened to those heros/heroins who slew the beasts? (including Corvus)

[dsm]

ravage said:
So, basically, a retelling of Hexen?

Nope, just a return to the world of Cronos - just like Heretic 2 is a return to the world of the Sidhe (Parthoris).

I was thinking of extending upon the world of Cronos, because it's the world in both HeXen games I like the best and because I think it'd be lame to make up an entirely new world that "works" exactly like both Cronos and Thyrion, when you can return to an already "known" world and extend upon it instead.

I was thinking of extending the storyline beyond the serpent riders. What spawned them? Is the Chaos orb completely destroyed with Eidolon? Is there a chance of them being ressurected by whatever spawned them? What happened to those heros/heroins who slew the beasts? (including Corvus) [/B]

Afaik, in HeXen 2: Portal of Praevus (the mission pack), an evil Wizard steals the life essence of the three serpent riders - when you defeat him, there's a text that says that the three souls were set free.

So basically, a HeXen 3 could bring back D'Sparil, Korax and Eidolon.

[Julian]

Do I sense a Doom3 mod team forming?

[Ichor]

It may be the only way we're ever going to see a Hexen 3. I doubt Raven is even going to consider making another Heretic or Hexen game this decade.

[Julian]

Ok then, I'm on for the music.

[Rotting Corpse]

Well if there is going to be a hexen3 team
I can help with levels and cg movies. Thats if my wad is done. I want a powerd up necromancer. That would be kick ass. I think ya should make it so he can resrrect
dead monster and have them fight for you. Like the arch-vile. But Ya cant do it on high level monsters cuz ware the skill in that.

[Ichor]

Actually, you could make it so that lower level Necromancers can resurrect weak enemies (if at all), and as he gains levels, he can eventually resurrect more powerful enemies. Of course, the toughest enemies like boss monsters can't be revived.

[Fletcher`]

Ichor said:

Actually, you could make it so that lower level Necromancers can resurrect weak enemies (if at all), and as he gains levels, he can eventually resurrect more powerful enemies. Of course, the toughest enemies like boss monsters can't be revived.

That would be cool. Kinda like merging parts of Diablo2 with H3. :)

[dsm]

Personally, I find that a necromancer with the ability to resurrect dead monsters to fight by his side would be total ass. (the necromancer in Diablo 2 is by far the most boring character to play as because of this imo - he's only fun to watch when you're watching somebody else playing)

It's supposed to be an FPS where you *shoot* monsters (or whack them with an axe or equivalent), not where you're supposed to play C&C with your resurrected monsters.

Classes I'd like:
Legionnaire: A warrior a la the fighter from Hx1 - definitely more powerful than that weak Hx2 Paladin, but this time, he's no longer the one to gain max armour from physical armour items like in the first game. Fastest character on ground.

Witch: Uses magical devices, very often coupled with poison. Weakest character, but has certain immunities. Moves at decent speed.

Paladin: A holy knight, who's a cross between the Hx1 Cleric and the Hx2 Crusader. He's more warrior-like this time, but still heavily twisted towards magic. The class who can get his overall armour levels the highest, but then he doesn't move that fast (but still fast enough).

Mage: Pretty much the good ol' mage, but with a few improved versions of the old weapons (he was imho, the most pathetic class from the first game - the ice shards were a little too unpredictable for my tastes). Very weak, but can benefit enormously from magic armour. Slowest character.

Amazon: Expert at use of magical ranged weapons - crossbows and longbows (borrows elements from the two Heretic games - especially Heretic 2), second fastest character on ground, fastest swimmer.

So there you have it.

[Rotting Corpse]

Just becouse its there dose not mean you will use it. I all ways thought that the Clerics cross was more of a Neromacers wheapon. If ya give the the necro the cross would ya like that more?

[Arioch]

It really all depends on how the character is played, dsm. Necromancers can be a ton of fun to play, and not necessarily for their skills at reviving the dead.

In fact I'd say that the necromancer's cursing and trapping spells make him far more valuable than his revivification spells.

[dsm]

Demons Hand said:

Well Dsm diffrent strokes of diffrent folks. What ya like or dislike might ot be the same for every one.

Oh I know that, but come on...

*Necromancer summons bigbadskeleton
Necromancer: "Hey bbs, see those ugly monsties over there?"
bigbadskeleton: "Hrrrrrrrgggghhhh" *nods*
Necromancer: "Do me a favour huh? Go and teach them some manners!"
bigbadskeleton: *Nods eagerly and turns towards monsters*
Necromancer: "Oh and btw, don't forget to wake me up when you're done, ok?"

*Necromancer lies down and falls asleep while bigbadskeleton 'deals' with baddies*

See what I mean? It's a wholly different feature with the Hexen 1 Cleric's wraithverge, because the spirits disappear so quickly again and because you still need to aim so that the souls don't just rush into a wall to disappear (it does happen once in a while).

It works in a game like Diablo 2, but I have a hard time seeing how it could possibly be fun in a fps fantasy game. I also have the suspicion that they originally intended to have the Necromancer in Hx2 summon skeletons, but they likely canned it again due to the fact that it didn't work out.

At any rate, I find it kinda curious that they had a necromancer in Hx2, but he couldn't summon undead monsters to help him - that smells like change of plans to me.

[edit]

Arioch said:

It really all depends on how the character is played, dsm. Necromancers can be a ton of fun to play, and not necessarily for their skills at reviving the dead.

Look Arioch, I know how to play as the Diablo 2 necromancer - I usually try and work actively.

But still, all it boils down to is just hanging back in the background, cursing groups of enemies, occasionally shooting bone teeth at them and occasionally raising a skeleton when one of the others are 'neutralized'.[/edit]

[Rotting Corpse]

The reason I say that ya shold only resrrect low level monsters is so that the medium to high level badies still are a threat. If your monsters are just being killed. It forces ya to fight for your self. Also I think 3 should be the max amount of monsters ya can summon.Pluse there is now way im leting them do all the work. Ill fight along side of them. So ya see its just like the minators in hexen.

[Arioch]

Skeletons are wusses. :P Revives, especially in hell, are where it's at.

It's true that the necromancer generally speaking can't do much damage for himself, but that wasn't one of the design goals for the character anyway.

One necro type that's pretty fun to play (for me, anyway) uses bone prison/bone wall, corpse explosion, and amplify damage, with only minimal investment into the minions (a few points in revive, a few in a golem).

[Fletcher`]

Demons Hand said:

The reason I say that ya shold only resrrect low level monsters is so that the medium to high level badies still are a threat. If your monsters are just being killed. It forces ya to fight for your self. Also I think 3 should be the max amount of monsters ya can summon.Pluse there is now way im leting them do all the work. Ill fight along side of them. So ya see its just like the minators in hexen.

And also having some restrictions on it too, so you still have to fight hand2hand:

Total ressurect # cap. - Can only ressurect a small amount of monsters, 5-6 at most. More or less depending on size of the monster

Ressurected penalties - As they are only mere shadows of their former selves, they should not be as powerful as they were when they were alive.

Only certain enemies can be ressurected - Only low-level enemies.

[Rotting Corpse]

ravage said:

And also having some restrictions on it too, so you still have to fight hand2hand:

Total ressurect # cap. - Can only ressurect a small amount of monsters, 5-6 at most. More or less depending on size of the monster

Ressurected penalties - As they are only mere shadows of their former selves, they should not be as powerful as they were when they were alive.

Only certain enemies can be ressurected - Only low-level enemies.

You hit the nail on the head. Thats what I was thinking.

[Shaviro]

The Reverend Julian said:

Do I sense a Doom3 mod team forming?

Who's with me on the Doom2 in Doom3 mod?

[dsm]

All right, you *almost* got me convinced that a Necro guy with resurrecting/summoning skills could be fun.

But then there's another problem.

It is well known that the hardware available for the Doom 3 engine only allows for a max of five character models on-screen.

So this basically means that if you suddenly bring in a new character model (summoned creature) in a place with already five models, then things are gonna get ugly. And if the maps are designed to have fewer models than five on-screen, then we'll face an imo boring HeXen game that does not live up to its predecessors.

A resurrecting spell *might* work as it already uses an existing model (an enemy that you have slain), but then again, what happens if you move into an area with more character models? Trouble!

At any rate, I might have found a compromise.

I made a few alterations to my idea sheet mentioned above where I have written five character classes: The Legionnaire, the Witch, the Paladin, the Mage and the Amazon.

I altered the Witch a bit so that she's a bit more "necromantic" in nature and one of her spells should be bringing in dead souls (underdetailed, blurry models *may* work) to feast on the enemies (a la wraithverge, but a bit different - I have other plans for a Wraithverge "wannabe").

At any rate, I think it's almost time to post my ideas on my first character class - I'll make a few checks and then I'll post it here.

Shaviro said:

Who's with me on the Doom2 in Doom3 mod?

id might deal with that themselves.

[Sharessa]

I think a summoner would be cooler than a necromancer for that.

Blah...too many postings going on.

Also, try to give everyone more than 4 damned weapons this time. That is one of the gripes I have about those games. :/

[dsm]

the_Danarchist said:

I think a summoner would be cooler than a necromancer for that.

I actually suggested a summoner to BBG when I started working on the idea sheet, but he turned it down.

[Shaviro]

dsm said:

id might deal with that themselves.

Doom4 hopefully.

[Sharessa]

Heh...well he fails it.

[dsm]

Shaviro said:

Doom4 hopefully.

Yeah, or something with a less ridiculous title (Doom 4 = teh lame, gimme a Doom title with a cool undertitle).

Anyways, it's time to post idea sheet entries on the first character I was thinking of - be warned, it's a bit fan fic'ish, but the focus is on the actual weapons and character traits ideas:

Legionnaire:

There are many powerful warriors in the lands of Cronos, but none as renowned and deadly as the fabled Legionnaires from the harsh Northlands. These bloodthirsty descendants of the warriors within the Legion during the Time of Order live for combat and have been brought up as warriors. Through brutal, intense physical training and mysterious, magical rituals that grant them superhuman strength and speed, Legionnaires are unequalled in hand-to-hand combat. Once in the middle of a battle, they show no quarter and no mercy. Extremely tough and accustomed to harsh weather and hostile environments, the Legionnaires live for danger and fear none. These warriors trust none other but themselves and they consider battle a mere game. Anyone would do well not to invoke the wrath of a Legionnaire or tempt them too much for only few who have dared to challenge one of these living battle machines have survived to tell about the battle.

The Legionnaire is the master of melee combat and close-quarters battles. He is by far the toughest and fastest of the classes. His knowledge in magic is extremely limited and almost only present in his use of magical weapons. In addition, he cannot store very much mana in his mind. He is very good at swimming and can use his magical abilities to move as fast and fight as well in water as he does on the ground. He can wear strong armour and most armour pieces fit him well, granting him many armour benefits, yet most defensive amulets are almost useless to him.

Weapons:

1.Armoured battle gauntlets: Though they may not seem like much they are by far the most powerful starting weapon of all the classes. The Warrior can with his superhuman strength fell weaker foes in a matter of seconds with his fists. He starts out punching his enemies with regular (but powerful) blows, but whenever he has delivered two punches, he has accumulated power to deliver his magically enhanced “mighty blow” which he can land without even concentrating and thus, it uses no mana. When powered by a tome of power, the fists are shrouded in flame that will not only burn the foes of the Warrior, but also augments the “mighty blow” with a magical force capable of hurling enemies backwards.

2.Timon’s Axe: This mighty battle axe from the past is able to deal swift death to most foes that come within its reach. More powerful than the gauntlets and with a slightly longer range, this weapon is still just a melee weapon, but it is also very effective at cleaving skulls. When Powered by the Tome of Power, the axe will hurl a bolt of blue lightning to roast enemies.

3.(Magic throwing axes): The warrior may at first only have one of these, but when a second one is found, he can wield two at once. This weapon can be thrown a limited distance at foes, before it reappears in the Legionnaire’s hand. It can ricochet off walls and obstacles and carves right through enemies. When dual axes are used, this weapon becomes twice as deadly as the warrior can throw two axes in rapid succession. When empowered by a Tome of Power, the axes will cause a massive explosion on impact, while still continuing through the victim.

4.(Magical short sword): This sword is basically just a melee weapon, but when used against multiple foes within sight, its attack can reach enemies that are further away as a blow to the nearest enemy will unleash a devastating attack of red chain lightning that will jump from foe to foe doing heavy damage to the enemy hit directly by the blade and moderate damage to the enemies struck by the lightning. When augmented by a Tome of Power, this sword fires a single sphere of electricity which will send out tongues of lightning to burn anything near the sphere’s path and the Sphere itself will explode on impact, dealing massive damage to its victim.

5.Quietus: The ultimate way to silence your enemy. This almighty two-handed multipart rune sword is so powerful that it is capable of killing most foes with a single blow and toss the remains of the victim backwards like stuffed playthings. When used as a melee weapon, this sword simply cuts most victims in half with a single swipe. When used from afar, the weapon lobs five devastatingly powerful balls of green fire at the enemies. (it’s slightly more destructive than it was in the first Hexen game and each ball “seeks” its own target without actually homing in on it). A Tome of Power augments the already destructive rune sword in such a way that instead of firing balls of green fire, it unleashes a tidal wave of green flames that spread out and burn anything on the ground and further unleashes long tongues of explosive fire at airborne enemies. Used melee while augmented knocks back the victim and sets it aflame with the powerful green fires, which continue to burn the foe until the flames burn out or the victim dies.

Defensive spells: None
Offensive spells: None

Special use of items:
1.Flechette: The warrior can with his mind force throw out the flechette directly at his foe without even using his hands. The bottle will bounce off surfaces, but will explode when it hits an enemy. Extremely useful to kill enemies hiding behind obstacles or lurking in a hole where normal attacks cannot reach them)

2.Porkelator: The Warrior is not very skilled in the use of this artefact and can therefore only transform a single enemy into a pig with one porkelator. When activated by the warrior, this artefact throws a small sphere directly out in front of the Warrior.

3.Banishment Device: The Warrior can only relocate a single enemy to another location in the level with the Banishment device.

Traits: Very strong, can move every movable object with ease. Can keep his breath a long time under water and swim fast, plus his weapons are not hampered by being underwater. Can move very fast and nimbly. Can get his health levels far higher than any other class and get his armour level fairly high.

Comments? Suggestions?

[Sharessa]

I was hoping the legionnare was going to be some roman-style warrior. I mean, there was that one land in Hexen 2 that was Roman-esque. He seems more like a barbarian from your description though.

[dsm]

the_Danarchist said:

I was hoping the legionnare was going to be some roman-style warrior. I mean, there was that one land in Hexen 2 that was Roman-esque. He seems more like a barbarian from your description though.

I want him to be more like a barbarian. He's basically the same as the Fighter in HeXen 1 (if you read the backstory of HX1, you'd know that they were supposedly Legionnaires of the Legion). A roman'esque legionnaire would be pathetic imo - like the HeXen 2 Paladin.

[Sharessa]

Why? I think it would be awesome to play as someone in a crested helmet and gilded armor.

[Sharessa]

Okay, actualy Greek might be cooler...they never had to lug around huge shields with them either. :P Then you could also have a spear as a weapon...something slightly new.

[dsm]

the_Danarchist said:

Why? I think it would be awesome to play as someone in a crested helmet and gilded armor.

I've got nothing to say to that other than: I have a vastly different taste from you, namely that I prefer imaginable armour (and settings) rather than taking stuff from historical periods. I've SEEN Roman/Greek armour before, but if someone uses their imagination, it's cool to see something new and exciting.

Oh well. At any rate, I'm hoping for a game that is as true to the original as possible, but which also borrows from the second game - that's I want to primarily see classes that are remiscent of the original three - Legionnaire ~ Fighter, Paladin ~ Cleric (though the difference is larger this time around), Mage ~ Mage (duh!) - , while also having some new ones, partially inspired by HeXen 2 and partially something fresh - the Witch and Amazon are both inspired by the HeXen 2 Assasin, but the Amazon is also inspired by Corvus in Heretic 2.

Oh btw, I observed the general desire to have more than just four weapons for each character.

[edit]Oh yeah, and the sketch I drew of my idea of the Legionnaire (a while ago) actually had a helmet which has a spike-crested helmet if that helps[/edit]