Could You Possibly Build A Slaughtermap In Other Games Besides Doom?

[DSC]

Just a question that simply popped up in my mind. Of all the classic shooter communities, Doom is the only one I know were they made maps filled with hundreds of densely packed monsters. I'm not an expert on the matter, but I don't recall anything remotely similar being created in other games like Quake or the Build Engine ones. I tried to think why its the case, and I figured out a few reasons why it maybe it is so: Doom's enemy roster is pretty strong and dangerous, with some very damaging attacks and hard to avoid patterns, but relatively very squishy themselves. The player's arsenal is very powerful and can easily kill many monsters in a short period of time. Naturally this leads to being able to place many more monsters than in other games where they are tankier. Also, Doom renders them in 2D sprites as opposed to 3D models like Quake, which allows you to look at every enemy you killed without setting your PC on fire. The results of your battle are much more impressive if you are able to clearly see the aftermath and don't have them despawning. And finally... The infighting. In Doom the infighting is both a very strong tool you can use to your advantage, and something very entertaining and fun to look at.

 

But those are just my takes. What do you have to say?

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

I think a large part of it is just coincidence/luck: the weapons, balance, and enemy roster just happen to work well enough in tandem, even in maps with many enemies. That and technical reasons (sprites, like you mentioned).

[ReaperAA]

23 minutes ago, DSC said:

But those are just my takes. What do you have to say?

 

You made good points. However, slaughtermaps for other FPSes do exist here and there. There are some Heretic slaughter maps out there, like The Wayfarer's penultimate map (though granted, The Wayfarer makes some gameplay modifications to make enemies less spongy).

 

There are also some Duke3D slaughter maps out there but I can't name any on top of my head right now. There does exist one Duke3D map called nuts.map. I am sure you can guess which Doom map influenced it :p

[Alaxzandarz]

There are quite a few quake slaughter maps, but it's not as big of a scene as in Doom. Some of them are really cool

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Alaxzandarz

[Sonikkumania]

Serious Sam, I guess. Isn't the whole game almost like a slaughter map?

Left 4 Dead, the mechanic is very linear but the horde masses are there, so who knows?

Also in previous regard, Warhammer Vermintide games might work too.

And .. Maybe some GMod mods when you think about it.

[Sonikkumania]

And if we'd change game genres, we could easily make slaughter maps in games like Age of Empires 2, Warcraft 3, Heroes 3.

[Mr. Freeze]

Isn't every Serious Sam level a slaughter map?

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

21 minutes ago, Alaxzandarz said:

There are quite a few quake slaughter maps, but it's not as big of a scene as in Doom. Some of them are really cool

Spoiler

 

 

 

Also the recent sm220 submission by ziggi - The Courtyard of Hugs and Kisses

 

[Mr Masker]

As Mario Luigi Freeman once said: “Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.”

 

But actual answer though, the idea of fighting tons of enemies all at once is hardly exclusive to the Doom Community. However, I do feel like the certain standard and idea of a quality slaughtermap is fairly unique to Doom's slaughtermaps. If there are other FPS' with an equivalent genre, their community would probably also need a way to separate the quality from the enemy spam, if they wanted it to flourish.

 

Not that I know any way of doing that because I suck at slaughter maps...

[YoshizinGordin]

 

Does This Count?

[Midnight_00]

I mean technically it can be done for Dusk.

[Faceman2000]

I always assumed infighting was big part of the reason it’s more common in Doom than elsewhere.

[7Mahonin]

Duke Nukem 3D most certainly can, but a skilled player can easily defeat these sorts of slaughter maps in DN3D if the map author is not well versed on the enemies and weapons. Certain enemies have weaknesses and immunities to certain weapons. A big map with tons of explosive ammo and battlelord sentry’s might seem a big threat but if the player was able to access the shrinker and a lot of ammo for it, they could just shrink all of these big bads without taking any real damage from them. So yes, I think for DN3D specifically it would work quite well but more thought must be involved when plotting enemy positions and weapon access beyond that of Doom. That isn’t to say Doom mapping doesn’t involve a deep thought process when it comes to enemy and weapon placement, just that in DN3D there’s more varied enemies and weapons that have pros and cons when faced together in the same situation.

 

Quake is another that could have maps like these and some are out there. It may not be able to reach the same scale as Doom but it can get close. Penile Destruction is a map I feel fits this style quite well. 

[LadyMistDragon]

Technically, it's obviously a ridiculous challenge unless your engine is as well optimized as Serious, but more importantly, advances in AI make the concept look clownish and laughable when taken into any remotely realistic context. It's not such a big deal with contemporary games like Heretic, or even Build Engine games and Quake, but one could say it's far more baked into Doom's DNA. While I know you can make enemies in Quake infight at the very least, you definitely can't reach the god-tier numbers of Cosmogenesis or OkUplok for instance. Without a NUTS equivalent, I don't think mappers for Duke3D or Quake are especially inclined towards making 1000+monster maps  or whatever (and for the latter at least, those are rare)

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

6 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

unless your engine is as well optimized as Serious

I'm only a mild Serious Sam fan, but whatever math they're teaching in Croatia these days is incredible!

[Cynical]

Kind of a niche map, but "Unreal Zero: Cats 2" for Unreal was basically a slaughtermap in Unreal.

[Wyrmwood]

Serious Sam has big old crazy fights but I'm not sure it's really 100% the same thing. Sam games have enemies teleporting in waves or running in from off screen and though it has a really impressive amount of enemies in play don't think it ever reaches the near the amount of enemies placed on the map or in play as Doom slaughter maps. Still no other 3d modeled games come close, pretty sure horde mode games like L4D or Vermintide don't have more than 30-40 enemies in play at once, though I could be wrong didn't spend much time with either.

 

One other I think might of came close too was Warhammer 40000 Space Marine, though that is 3rd person Gears of War style. You slaughtered through Dynasty Warriors amounts of Gobbo's in that one.

 

Edit : On a side note the EDF games on the hardest setting make nuts.wad look fairly reasonable, a sea of giant ants as far as you can see, rolling over your tanks in an unstoppable wave.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Wyrmwood

[Tetzlaff]

Pax Imperia would be an example for slaughter maps in Quake 2.

 

The infighting in Quake 2 works practically the same way like in Doom.

[yakfak]

check DROD!

it has crowd management, respawns, problem enemies that can hide in a horde, explosives (which certain enemies can trigger), teleporters etc. just happens to be a turn-based puzzle game lol