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Rudolph

Hellena Taylor vs. Bayonetta 3

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11 minutes ago, Arrowhead said:

as the OP seems to like to ignore every single thing brought up in this thread

No, I have just learned to avoid interacting with bad-faith actors.

 

Do you have an opinion on the topic at hand yourself?

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Didn't realize every job I've turned down due to not liking the pay rate was worthy of calling for a boycott. 

6 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Nintendo can afford paying Chris Pratt millions to phone in as Mario, but they get all miserly when it comes to Bayonetta's official voice actress.

Mario and Chris Pratt in a full feature film are much bigger value than a more niche game like Bayonetta and a relatively unknown voice actor. These aren't even fair comparisons. 

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11 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

 

I haven't seen any bad faith actors in this thread, IMO.

 

And I do have an opinion about this topic. Nobody owes anyone anything - not a dime. Especially, if your last big role in the industry was many years ago. If you receive an offer you don't like don't take it. Doesn't mean one has to go full 'internet activist' and declare a boycott to Doomworld. You're totally allowed to have your own opinion, I doubt mine will change your mind - that's okay. Really. Like I said before, it's totally fine to disagree. Those that disagree w/ you do not all of a sudden become 'bad faith actors', just because you happen to dislike their opinion.

 

You aren't simply owed large sums of money, just because you have occupation / position X. If she feels that she wasn't treated correctly, she'll go elsewhere for employment. Free market, and all. What do you think is a reasonable amount of money for such a position? It'd be ridiculous to pay someone HUGE sums of money, when they, (in my humble opinion) don't have that impressive of a VA resume - it's not like the Bayonetta series is known for its extremely in-depth story, or for it's huge amount of VA lines. It's a pretty basic game in that regard...

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It is absolutely a fair comparison, even more so considering the fact that Chris Pratt is hardly a box office draw himself.

 

Incidentally, Nintendo would have probably saved a lot of money by getting Charles Martinet to voice Mario.

 

9 minutes ago, Arrowhead said:

Those that disagree w/ you do not all of a sudden become 'bad faith actors', just because you happen to dislike their opinion.

No, I call them bad-faith actors because they do not care about the topic at hand and are just responding to it to vent their frustration with me making a thread about a topic that they do not want to care about. Or in certain cases, to personally spite me for... reason?

 

Either way, nobody is forcing them to post, just like they cannot force me to reply.

Edited by Rudolph

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You're..not a Bayonetta fan....and yet, you're asking on an unrelated internet forum to boycott Bayonetta 3 because the voice actress was upset over her pay? It's a fair point, but honestly, I don't think most fans will care too much about 1 person and I especially don't think anyone on Doomworld is likely to care too much. This smacks too much of the accusations of "SJWs are infiltrating gaming!" or some such nonsense because of how blatantly agenda-driven this is. This isn't the right place.

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10 minutes ago, LadyMistDragon said:

I don't think most fans will care too much about 1 person and I especially don't think anyone on Doomworld is likely to care too much.

I do not expect them to. I do not make threads with the optic of maximizing engagement and what not.

 

Again, if you do not care about the thread, you do not have to respond to it.

 

10 minutes ago, LadyMistDragon said:

This isn't the right place.

Nobody complained when a thread about Activision Blizzard screwing its workers over was made.

Edited by Rudolph

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2 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

It is absolutely a fair comparison, even more so considering the fact that Chris Pratt is hardly a box office draw himself.

Do you truly believe that the profit margin for the Bayonetta series and the work of this VA are even remotely comparable to Pratt's movies and the Mario franchise? 

If you truly do I would have to question your sanity.

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33 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Do you have an opinion on the topic at hand yourself?

 

I do: corporate abuse and greed is quite obviously a very real issue, and the game industry is rampant with it and has been for decades. Maybe she wasn't offered what she was worth, I don't know, because I don't know enough about the VO industry to judge.

 

With THAT being said however, this is why you learn to negotiate with people. Learn how to leverage your position, especially if you're an established part of a franchise like she is. And if that doesn't work, be prepared to walk away. It's that simple. And if you want to voice your grievances over social media as she has, that's fine too. You know what you DON'T do if you claim to care about underpaid workers like she does? You don't turn around and use your position in the franchise to ask players to boycott the game, when it's blatantly goddamn obvious that if the game fails to do well, the lesser-paid people at the bottom rungs of the ladder you claim to care about will be the first to get thrown into the meat disposal grinder. Honestly, without even knowing if she's getting paid fairly, the way she talks about this makes her seem incredibly self-centered.

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@Caffeine Freak I can see where you are going with this and I would be tempted to agree with your take if it were not for the fact that the industry has a history of screwing over its workers no matter how well a game does. Regardless of whether Hellena Taylor's call for a boycott is answered, those workers are still dependent on the whims of the higher-ups. Heck, her own performance was clearly not deemed worthy of a living wage...

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On statements of "this post is harmful to the people who developed it":
They already got paid. I would be shocked if they got any kickback from sales, studios that get that are an exception to the norm. Boycotting a single game is a joke though, when the problem runs so much deeper. Everyone in so many industries except the guy at the top is disposable. The average consumer works an 8-12 hour job with shit pay to rent an apartment with skyrocketing rent and the only thing that keeps them from going off the deep end is that they're still able to grasp something they love, on off hours, sometimes, and it's unlikely you'll get them to give up Bayonetta or the newest Call of Duty or the new Marvel movie or whatever that is for them. It's all so tiresome.

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12 minutes ago, Maribo said:

Boycotting a single game is a joke though, when the problem runs so much deeper.

Fair enough. I have edited this thread's title, as I am ultimately not calling for a boycott myself, only relaying Hellena Taylor's message. Even though I am not a Bayonetta fan myself, I sympathize with the people who are willing to take a stand against the industry's abuses.

 

Hopefully, that will clear up what I assume was merely a misunderstanding.

Edited by Rudolph

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@RudolphAnd there's a difference between not getting paid well, and getting shitcanned because a game performed poorly, which is the distinction I'm drawing.

 

Also, more to your point, if she's concerned about earning a living wage she might consider doing more than 1 piece of professional VO work (that I've been able to find thus far) since 2014. The more I'm looking at this, the more it looks like a PR stunt from someone who just hasn't done much of anything in a while. EDIT: I'd genuinely be willing to alter that assessment if someone can point me to other things she's done in say, the last half decade.

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"Voting with your wallet" sounds good on paper until you realize that your voting ballots are dollar bills. Who ever holds the fattest wallet holds the most sway, which is the exact thing that most people giving that advice are so staunchly against. Even if the developers of this game already got paid, boycotting doesn't work at all, and people in certain jobs make products that are eligible for kickback. Also, in response to another comment, I'm pretty sure I'm not a librarian. I took one of those quizzes online to make sure and it said that I'm gay. 

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10 minutes ago, Caffeine Freak said:

And there's a difference between not getting paid well, and getting shitcanned because a game performed poorly, which is the distinction I'm drawing.

Yes, but again, workers do get shitcanned even when a game does well. While I can see now that a simple call to boycott on social media might have not been the best strategy, I do not think it is fair at all to imply that Hellena Taylor is throwing other workers under the bus by doing so.

 

10 minutes ago, Caffeine Freak said:

Also, more to your point, if she's concerned about earning a living wage she might consider doing more than 1 piece of professional VO work (that I've been able to find thus far) since 2014. The more I'm looking at this, the more it looks like a PR stunt from someone who just hasn't done much of anything in a while. 

See, I would not be so quick to judge. After all, she did mention struggling with depression and living in the hellhole that is post-Brexit England. She might also have been doing some uncredited work for all we know. It is very likely that "working harder" in her case is simply not the solution.

Edited by Rudolph

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1 minute ago, Rudolph said:

Yes, but again, workers do get shitcanned even when a game does well. While I can see now that a simple call to boycott on social media might have not been the best strategy, I do not think it is fair at all to imply that Hellena Taylor is throwing other workers under the bus by doing so.

 

See, I would not be so quick to judge. She did mention struggling with depression, after all, and she lives in the hellhole that is post-Brexit England.

 

And there's a greater likelihood workers get shitcanned when a game does poorly. Maybe it's a stretch for me to imply she just doesn't care about lower-wage workers or that this is a PR stunt, but I also think calling for a boycott is short-sighted and self-centered. 

 

I'm not speculating on why she has an apparent credit gap in her VO work, only that it seems quite odd to step away for close to a decade and then stir up a publicity storm upon your return. That makes me suspicious of your motives. Again, if someone wants to point me to other things she's done more recently, I'd be fine changing my opinion. I haven't done the most extensive research on her. 

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giving your take is daft, just support individuals against companies lol

some people have this huge impulse to act like the human resources dept., looking at people's troubles askance and finding reasons why they don't matter. probably the same people reading disinfo on facebook and going swiftly mad

 

^ the workers on this game have already been paid, they have a wage, we're talking about someone on commission getting stiffed

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39 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Nobody complained when a thread about Activision Blizzard screwing its workers over was made.

Because it was a massive scandal and legal battle involving sexual assault by well-known people in the industry who work for a massively popular company responsible for massively popular games.

 

This is a thread about one person most people haven't heard of who turned down a job.

 

And for the record, I'm aware of at least one person who was banned in the Blizzard thread, which only provides more evidence to the fact that topics like this are inappropriate for Doomworld.

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10 minutes ago, Caffeine Freak said:

And there's a greater likelihood workers get shitcanned when a game does poorly.

I guess I simply reject this way of seeing things, as it feels like a dividing tactic used by the management to shift the blame away from them for firing talented people. Not saying that is what you meant there, just that I know for a fact that it is used by corporate ghouls.

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