What If id Software Made Another Classic-Styled Doom Game?

[Domestic-Weirdo]

As many of us are aware, there has been a revival of 90's FPS gameplay with Doom (2016) & Eternal arguably being the faces of this resurgence. A wave of games over past few years emulated or at least drew heavy inspiration from that era with titles such as Dusk, Ion Fury, Graven, and Prodeus. In the case of Ion Fury, the game was developed using the EDuke32 Build Engine source port which gave it an authentic retro feel while modernizing at the same time. This has left me wondering if id Software could do something similar by making an intentionally less advanced Doom game.

 

It's fairly common for some companies to alternate back and forth with 2D and 3D games for their franchises*. Nintendo does this for Super Mario and Metroid while SEGA uses a comparable approach for Sonic The Hedgehog. Admittedly, those examples also employ various development teams to assist production on those games, but id Software isn't a stranger to contracting external development for a project like this, as seen in the case of Doom 64. There's plenty of talented studios, including the ones under Bethesda's brand, that are more than capable of taking up this kind of task.

 

Some may argue that such an effort would only appeal to a niche market. However, in addition to the other popular retro FPS games, there's has been several cases which have shown a retro throwback like this could be quite lucrative. Going back to SEGA, Sonic fans spent years asking for a faithful follow-up to the Genesis titles, especially after disappointment at their attempts with Sonic 4. So when SEGA had greenlit production for Sonic Mania, Christian Whitehead and his collaborators addressed those requests by recreating the physics, using sprites, and modeling the level design after the classic games. Sonic Mania didn't only deliver on being a worthy successor to the Genesis games, it also became one of the most well regarded entries in the series. Similarly, for Mega Man 9, Capcom designed it with the aesthetic of the NES era as a way to bring it back to its roots, even removing some of Mega Man's abilities to be more in line with the first two games. Despite concerns from management over its 8-bit style, Mega Man 9 outperformed Capcom's expectations; enough to justify producing another sequel shortly after.

 

id Software's creative output has been increasing in scale. It's only natural for a game studio to do this, especially when considering this company has been synonymous with next-gen technology, but that does have its downsides. Doom 3 was a very well made game, however, it debatably prioritized its lighting capabilities by shifting towards horror based gameplay. A decision that became rather divisive among Doom's fanbase to say the least. With Doom 4, part of the reason development took so long was that the initial plan for a cinematic depiction of a global demonic invasion was too ambitious for a project that had also been suffering a severe identity crisis at the time. A scaled down Doom title could be a good remedy for these kind of issues by alleviating the amount of time and resources needed for development while also not straying too far from the series' staple gameplay. It can also benefit the fans by giving them something in between releases of the main games.

 

As to what kind of game this might be, here are a few suggestions. I feel that if id Software or Bethesda had ever decided to make a new classic-styled Doom game, it should run on a modified version of the idTech 1 engine, or at least something based upon it, that combines most or all of features of Doom, Doom II, and even Doom 64. It would a great opportunity to have all the monsters types present in one game with 64's advancements like colored lighting, translucency, and scripted events. Of course, I would like to see new features that bring quality-of-life changes and more additions to the gameplay, many of which have already been covered by Doom's derivatives and source ports. I never liked infinitely tall monsters and, since it was implemented so computers of the time didn't lag, is an unnecessary limitation to retain in my opinion. Taking some pages from the Heretic games, pushable sectors or polyobjects could be great ways to add horizontal interaction and map variability for players. Lastly, for the sake of modding, an option to customize aspects with hard-coded behaviors such as hitscan damage variables, monster infighting, par times, and secret level exits.

 

I know the chances of id Software working on a retro Doom title are rather slim, but I thought it would be fun to discuss hypothetical features for that kind of project. I also believe that it's an area full of untapped potential that could easily become popular with modern and classic Doom fans alike. Do any of you think that id Software should make a new "classic-styled" Doom game? If so, what would be your hopes or expectations? 

 

 

^{*Note: I'm not trying to say classic Doom is 2D, but rather that other series have relatively modest installments set between the main ones.}

 

 

 

 

[dasho]

I don't see why they would, they would be competing against their magnum opus and decades of community content.

[Sonikkumania]

A remake of Quake is something I might want to see in my lifetime.

[Lucius Wooding]

There's not much point, the fan community has been on it for nearly 30 years. We have Boom from way back in the day as well as ZDoom based ports which added all kinds of features, and there's zero chance any new first party port is gonna stand up to all the (free and too numerous to remotely play them all) fan maps. Sunlust and Valiant and such will shit on anything classic Doom based that Bethesda makes for sure. It will save them embarrassment since it could never live up to the hype, and likely wouldn't even be Cacoward material necessarily. It'd be impossible to sell since there is so much free content out there of high quality, and it'd be massively pirated at launch on principle if they charged money.

 

We got Sigil, something like that is probably all we're ever gonna get. I also get the sense that while the community may revere classic Doom, and rightfully so, it isn't going to generate interest with modern players. So there isn't really an audience here and it would make no sense financially. Fan passion projects have been better done and worked on by some of the most talented designers and coders in the world due to their widespread love of the original and the strong modding community. 

[Shepardus]

I think new "official" levels would still be cool despite the plethora of fan-made content out there; see: No Rest For The Living, The Lost Levels for Doom 64, Dimension of the Past and Dimension of the Machine for Quake. I can't help but think that investing significant time into engine enhancements would be a waste of time, though.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

I think that the classic Doom engine isn't flashy enough for mainstream big budget development. If you think of Ion Fury, the dev team was not asked to make it the way the game is. They were asked to make a quick little game that'll serve as a promo using Shelly as a protagonist. They decided to make it awesome and in the Build engine they modified to support their artistic vision. 

I don't think a behemoth that's all about the newest graphics like id would be remotely interested in doing anything like that. Because that requires a soul and passion. The older idTech engines are under the GPL license, anybody can make a game with them. This is work for small dev teams, not giant corporate money machines.

If you want to make a game like Doom but modernized, GZDoom is exactly what you're looking for. Guess what, it's also GPL from version 3.0.0 onwards. So anybody can make games with it. Say what you want about Graf but the guy and the whole team work tirelessly on making it a rock solid shooter engine. A shooter engine that also plays Doom. All the things you listed that you'd want to see, gzdoom can already do, or can be modified and upstreamed with relative ease. 

 

Game dev is generally less about great ideas and more about great execution of ideas. 

Now to finally answer your question, I would love a game in style of classic Doom to have a grappling hook like the one in the newfangled Doom. Retain hordes of dumb enemies but introduce more verticality to the gameplay. More flying and/or jumping monsters. Reduce RNG somewhat. If you berserk a low tier monster like imp, it should always die, either in a pile of gibs or not. Overall I like the idea of monsters being generally with low health and high damage. The enemy and weapon raster of classic Doom is pretty damn solid as is from mechanics point. There are some blank spots but overall better than vast majority of modern shooters. So I'd rather be improving upon it then remaking it from ground up. 

[Graf Zahl]

I don't think it would work. The engine is just too old and there's simply no way to modernize it enough to make it viable for a game that needs to have a broader appeal.

 

For low budget titles this is an option but make no mistake: all the visal eye candy that GZDoom can do by now cannot hide the fact that it's not a modern game engine. It's still mostly sprite based and has to deal with Doom's wonky physics that are quite nonsensical. All this limits the potential audicence which needs to be reflected in the budget for such a game.

 

I personally would be more than happy if the Q3/Unreal era aesthetics had a comeback. This was the last generation of games I found visually appealing.

 

[smeghammer]

35 minutes ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

Doom to have a grappling hook like the one in the newfangled Doom

 

Agree with this - I played a bit of Q3A back in the day, and my favourite FFA server had a grappling hook mod - it was great! Loved the completely new way (back then) of moving about the maps.

 

Of the new crop of retro games I have played, I like Ion Fury the most, closely followed by WRATH AoR - both AFAIK using modified versions of very old game engines, which is why they look so authentically retro.

 

Doing a retro style Doom game is kind of already covered by the community anyway - there is obviously a plethora of amazing free mods available, and trying to sell something that is essentially a Doom TC would be tricky I suspect, and likely not worth the dev time and cost to do it.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

6 minutes ago, smeghammer said:

Of the new crop of retro games I have played, I like Ion Fury the most, closely followed by WRATH AoR - both AFAIK using modified versions of very old game engines, which is why they look so authentically retro.

Yep, Ion Fury is modified Build, and Wrath is Darkplaces. Not sure if that is modified or not. The stock DP engine/source port has a lot of enhancements. 

[smeghammer]

Oh it's DarkPlaces! Yeah I loved the Quake map Bastion and I think I first used an old version of DarkPlaces engine to run that.

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

1 hour ago, smeghammer said:

Oh it's DarkPlaces! Yeah I loved the Quake map Bastion and I think I first used an old version of DarkPlaces engine to run that.

Iirc Darkplaces is one of the first ports with gameplay and rendering enhancements to the original. Now it's one among many, and most of them handle mods another way, so it's slowly falling out of favour in the quake modding/mapping community. 

If you're into quake, i can wholeheartedly recommend Tears of the False God from Arcane Dimensions. Doing anything in Quake is a ton of work and this is an absolute masterpiece

[DoomGater]

10 hours ago, Domestic-Weirdo said:

(...) This has left me wondering if id Software could do something similar by making an intentionally less advanced Doom game.

 

 

I guess SIGIL is a clever approach in this direction. BTW: Releasing only the wad was a very clever choice. It spares all the engine / port / OS related support,

so no trouble from that direction, but the JR still gets the fame of releasing something fresh and new...:-)

[smeghammer]

6 minutes ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

Arcane Dimensions

 

Yeah I have played some of the main AD, Really atmospheric and detailed. Must admit, I just don't have the time any more though - work, kids and housework tend to get in the way of huge gaming sessions :-( Growing up and adult responsibilities sucks sometimes. Maybe when I retire and the kids have left home... I will check out your recommendation though, thanks.

[ReaperAA]

2 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

I personally would be more than happy if the Q3/Unreal era aesthetics had a comeback. This was the last generation of games I found visually appealing.

 

Duke Nukem Forever 2001 Restoration :D

[Sneezy McGlassFace]

2 minutes ago, smeghammer said:

 

Yeah I have played some of the main AD, Really atmospheric and detailed. Must admit, I just don't have the time any more though - work, kids and housework tend to get in the way of huge gaming sessions :-( Growing up and adult responsibilities sucks sometimes. Maybe when I retire and the kids have left home... I will check out your recommendation though, thanks.

Sometimes I genuinely feel like I've been conned into growing up. I don't know how you people can manage taking care of kids, it's more than enough work just taking care of myself. Friends, family, household, work, and I'm at my limit. Life's crazy, man.

Anyway, enjoy the map eventually

[smeghammer]

Growing up is OK, growing OLD sucks... 

 

If one is not ready for kids, don't. Nobody is ever really prepared for kids, but if you and your partner are ready, it's well worth it. Don't get me wrong, it's fucking hard work and drains all your energy and money, but makes you really happy when your 10 y/o daughter starts singing an old Iron Maiden song (or something :-) ). 

 

Spoiler

Sorry a bit off topic here

 

[yakfak]

i think they would look at the market of horror-styled, quake-styled and serious gory revival shooters and make something far hornier. get the Hedon person on the creative team, make something that's less about the DE strict game-play loop and more about getting lost, taking in a world and meeting horned demons >:3

 

[Murdoch]

I concur with most of the comments here. There is absolutely no way an id Software classic style title would compete with the community content for quality, and I think they are smart enough to know this. So why would they bother?

[Rudolph]

I would be interested in a official "Classic Doom III", especially one that introduces a Railgun as a new weapon; it would definitely come in useful in situations where Arch-Viles are targeting you from behind other enemies!

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

19 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I would be interested in a official "Classic Doom III", especially one that introduces a Railgun as a new weapon; it would definitely come in useful in situations where Arch-Viles are targeting you from behind other enemies!

Are there really no wads/mods available that feature a railgun AKA Unmaker?

[Gregor]

If id Software would try to do a classic style FPS today it would suck. Simple as that. The people that are working there now have nothing to do with the people that invented the FPS genre in the 90s. Don't get hung up on names. The id Software name didn't create Doom or Quake. It's just a name. And the 90s have long since past. They'll play it safe by doing triple AAA Doom and Quake games; you'll never see them release a new IP. They are not about pushing the boundaries nowadays. They don't have the people for that anymore and that's not by chance. If you wanna innovate as a developer you are not gonna apply for a job at id Software, just like you wouldn't apply at one of the Call of Duty studios. You go elsewhere.

[Mystic 256]

What if they should do what Capcom did with Mega Man and have Classic Doom and New Doom be 2 series running along side each other like Classic Mega Man and Mega Man X

[SuperGiantNinjaYeti]

I agree that modern day id software wouldn't dare try to compete themselves with the community mod makers, but I guess it wouldn't be impossible for id to pay a group of community members to make a promotional tie-in to the next mainline game or whatever else the next big Doom thing may be. Even then it would probably be an add-on for the Unity port rather than a stand alone game though.

[staros96]

7 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

 

I personally would be more than happy if the Q3/Unreal era aesthetics had a comeback. This was the last generation of games I found visually appealing.

 

I second this. Q3A models and maps were insane and kind of gothic/modern/cyberpunk(?), space CTF in particular was one of my favourites. Just knowing a bad jump/misstep and you fall into space, with your character grunting...  The use of lighting and mirrors, also fantastic. 

 ~3 years later as well - the creativity of UT 2003/04 (particularly the former, imo) was great.. 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

1 minute ago, SuperGiantNinjaYeti said:

I guess it wouldn't be impossible for id to pay a group of community members to make a promotional tie-in to the next mainline game or whatever else the next big Doom thing may be

That would probably backfire spectacularly, as you'd no doubt have people pointing at the community wad while screaming "look how much better the modders are than Bethesda!!!".

 

They could still hire community people for Unity addons, but having community work tied specifically to a new game would be a dumb move on their part IMO, and to many people it would look unprofessional. The best they could do in terms of promoting their new game would be a community mapping contest:

 

"Whoever makes the best map based on [whatever] wins a copy of [new game] and merchandise based on [new game]."

 

(Even then, I doubt that would happen, as mapping for DOOM isn't a skill that the general public has, most of the people with that skill are all here, so we could predict the winner as soon as we found out who was competing.)

[DarkJim]

2 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

That would probably backfire spectacularly, as you'd no doubt have people pointing at the community wad while screaming "look how much better the modders are than Bethesda!!!".

 

They could still hire community people for Unity addons, but having community work tied specifically to a new game would be a dumb move on their part IMO, and to many people it would look unprofessional. The best they could do in terms of promoting their new game would be a community mapping contest:

 

"Whoever makes the best map based on [whatever] wins a copy of [new game] and merchandise based on [new game]."

 

(Even then, I doubt that would happen, as mapping for DOOM isn't a skill that the general public has, most of the people with that skill are all here, so we could predict the winner as soon as we found out who was competing.)

Don't be so sure about the winner ; )

[TheFocus]

no matter how much this community hates on "Nu Doom", that's not gonna happen. Id has made so much progress in FPS design at this point, it would be stupid to go backwards.

HOWEVER, with rumors of a new Quake making the rounds, something in that same ballpark could happen.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

2 hours ago, DarkJim said:

Don't be so sure about the winner ; )

Give 'em hell, Jim!

[7Mahonin]

I'd imagine it would be a bit like Mega Man 9 and 10.

[NiGHTS108]

Doom Mania, make it happen id!