Doom vs. Hexen?

[Stealthy Ivan]

When doom first came out, and hexen first came out, and when you first played it, which game do you think was better...? My thoughts were, if you could use the qualities of hexen in doom it would rule ( and you can nowdays). I personally always though doom was a better game, but hexen had better levels (and cool new monsters to kill...!)

[Lord FlatHead]

Doom blew me away. Hexen made me think "hey, pretty cool".

[GooberMan]

Doom was revolutionary, Hexen was more evolutionary. Both great games.

[Shaviro]

Doom >>>>>>> Hexen. Doom actually had gameplay! :P

[myk]

I found DOOM first, so it's hard to compare. But I'm pretty sure that when I found Hexen I though at 1st that it was better... not surprising too, as back then I was still an AD&D player, so it was fitting. But things changed and Hexen is fading away, and DOOM remains.

If find DOOM's simplicity more satisfying, and it's hellish mood appealing. Hexen's fantastic theme is cool, and it has a feel of its own that is a bit more consistent than DOOM's, but less solid and convincing. This has little to do with "realistic" elements in DOOM, in my case; I just like the particular Hellish/Tech combination and clash overall, and its inherent brutality.

[icemann]

Bit stupid asking a question like this here of all places. Obviously everyones going to say Doom was better :p

That being said, I`d put them both at around equal. Both are fantastic games, that you`d still play to this day dispite the dated graphics.

[Fredrik]

icemann said:

dispite the dated graphics.

Umm, the graphics are exactly the same as when the games came out, it's not like they've gotten worse :P

[Graf Zahl]

Regarding the original levels and game design I'd say Hexen is the clear winner. It is the user levels and the source ports that make Doom what it is today. Without these two factors I think Doom would have died years ago.

[GooberMan]

Doom still has some of the best art direction you'll ever see in a game. The only thing that's gotten "dated" is the fact that pixellisation is generally a thing of the past in modern 3D games.

[Shaviro]

icemann said:

Bit stupid asking a question like this here of all places. Obviously everyones going to say Doom was better :p

That's what I thought, but no.

[Crizk]

Doom was better. When I first started playing the Doom games Hexen was already out. Doom has addicting gameplay and the monsters and weapons are cleverly balanced. I prefer Sci-Fi shooters to Fantasy ones anyway. Shooting green energy out of a staff just isn't the same as wasting baddies with a plasma gun.

[Enjay]

When Hexen came out, I was already very familiar with Doom and Doom editing, so when I saw things like smashable windows, swinging doors, hub structure, scripted effects and so on I was blown away. I'd already been impressed with looking up and down, and having an inventory in Heretic and wished such things could have been incorporated into Doom2.

As far as gameplay goes, I found the levels confusing and the puzzles illogical and obscure. I also found the weapons (on the whole) dissatisfying and the fact you only got 4 for a whole game (even though there are 12 in total) very disappointing. And it's not that I don't like the fantasy genre, I do, but there was something that Hexen (and IMO, to a lesser extent Heretic) simply didn't have.

GooberMan covered it with

Doom was revolutionary, Hexen was more evolutionary. Both great games.

[Fletcher`]

Doom > Doom 2
Heretic < Hexen
Doom = Hexen

Both win. :)

[dsm]

Shaviro said:

Doom >>>>>>> Hexen. Doom actually had gameplay! :P

You're biased because you hate goth fantasy. HeXen has plenty of gameplay - it's fun to have some powerful melee weapons for a change and it has some great monsters too.
Not to mention....
Atmosphere!

Anyway, I'm a bit biased about the fact that the first time I actually played HeXen myself was around April last year. By the time I first read a review of HeXen and saw the screenshots, I was totally uninterested in it.
Back then, goth fantasy didn't mean shit to me and I could only assume that it was "just another lousy Doom clone".

When I played the demo for the first time last year, I was surprised how much it sucked me in. I soon found that only the Fighter was worth playing as imo (the Cleric's starting weapon was too weak, the Mage had a weak, yet original starting weapon, but the ice shards totally put me off - found them much too weak compared to the Fighter's axe), but when I got the full version after a long hunt, the Cleric started appealing to me too and even the Mage had a weapon that I liked (the Arc of Death). Basically, I found that HeXen was an original Doom clone that had a different, but also vastly cool feel to it, but being a hardcore Doom fanatic (which has only escalated in all those years), I didn't think it beat Doom.

Although HeXen had plenty of cool atmosphere Doom had a different, and more terrifying atmosphere and I also gotta say that Doom's particular style of sci-fi appeals a lot more to me than anything else, including HeXen's style of fantasy goth.
Also, the personified demon lord Korax automatically seems more cheesy than the more "faceless" and animal-like demonbosses in Doom (think Diablo 1+2 where the demonlords seem more like some sort of evil überwizards in personality than actual demons from Hell), but at least he isn't as cheesy as Diablo and the other Prime Evils ended up being in Diablo 2 (particularly Baal sucks imo).

[Kinsie]

Without Doom there would be no Hexen. Thus, Doom wins on default.
Sorry Hexen, I tried to like you, but the fact the first time I played you was on the crappy N64 version probably killed any chances of an addiction. Sorry man.

[Shaviro]

dsm said:

You're biased because you hate goth fantasy.

Heretic and Hexen were two major players in my goth fantasy hatred. They actually started it.

[Brad_tilf]

I always preferred the doom games simply because they are more straight forward - find em, killem, move on soldier.
Hexen threw in all kinds of odd things like magic and stuff and all the time all I wanted was my ssg.

[DooMBoy]

Doom is an excellent game, and it was a trend setter, therefore, it does indeed win by default. Hexen has its own merits however: the ACS system, hubs, polyobjects, etc. etc. really helped to elevate it above Doom and IMO make it seem like a completely different game altogether. I personally prefer Hexen's gothic/fantasy over Doom's Hell/tech-for some reason it just appeals to me a lot more for some reason. Playing Doom, I never get the feeling I'm really in the game, unless it's a particularly good wad I'm playing (such as Vengeance), but with Hexen, it always feels like I'm really going on an adventure of epic proportions, though IMO I felt (and still feel) that Hexen was way too puzzle oriented.

[Melfice]

If it wasn't for Doom there wouldn't be a Hexen or probably alot of other FPS games out there right now. If it wasn't for Wolfenstein, there wouldn't be a Doom. 'Nuff Said

*Ponk!*

Another * Vs.* Thread, expect this to occupy some space in Post Hell pretty soon.

[Ichor]

I've always thought Doom was a great game, but I tend to enjoy the fantasy, medieval type games more, as most of the games I have are of that theme (Baldur's Gate series, Icewind Dale, etc.). Hexen has always been my favorite game, but there were two things wrong with it. It was too easy (except for a couple of the traps in later maps), and no Tome of Power.

[dsm]

Ichor said:

Hexen has always been my favorite game, but there were two things wrong with it. It was too easy (except for a couple of the traps in later maps), and no Tome of Power.

Faults with HeXen:

1. Puzzles are just too damn difficult - sometimes you're fucking forced to look for secrets to be able to proceed --> way NOT to do a good game. At one point in the Shadow Wood hub, I was close to put my fist through the monitor. Puzzles should be involving, but not frustratingly difficult, because what most people really want in an FPS is to kill stuff.

2. No Tome of Power - it's weird, there was a ToP in Heretic and people really liked it...why the Hell did they keep this great item out of HeXen?

3. Complexity - the items that you can carry around at all times are very neat and all, but in the end, it can be quite hard to exploit these items to their fullest potential. Especially the Discs of Repulsion are hard to use efficiently. I usually wound up having tons of 'em with tons more lying about in the map, and it is in these situations that it kills me to know that I could have used some discs to avoid taking hits a few moments ago. If you could ready discs to autocast, it'd already be a lot easier.

[Ichor]

I tend to use them if I ever get swamped with enemies. However, I discovered an odd trick using the cleric's Flechette and Discs of Repulsion. Set a Flechette somewhere in an open place. Then blast that poison cloud away. More often than not, if it hits an enemy, it will almost instantly destroy it, but it seems to only affect one enemy at a time this way (all others would simply be poisoned like usual). I've tried this on Centaurs, and it causes the extreme death frame (throws out sword and shield).

Another trick is to blast a monster past a line that you know has the monster block attribute set. They will stop at that point and take damage, usually until they die (it only takes a second or two even for enemies at full health).

[Shaviro]

Melfice Darkmage said:

If it wasn't for Doom there wouldn't be a Hexen or probably alot of other FPS games out there right now. If it wasn't for Wolfenstein, there wouldn't be a Doom. 'Nuff Said

uh what? This is a thread about your personal opinion: "Do you like Doom or Hexen better?"

Another * Vs.* Thread, expect this to occupy some space in Post Hell pretty soon.

Why don't you let the mods decide that instead?

[Job]

Oy. Not again...Doom.

[GooberMan]

dsm said:

the items that you can carry around at all times are very neat and all, but in the end, it can be quite hard to exploit these items to their fullest potential. Especially the Discs of Repulsion are hard to use efficiently.

Heretic 2's Offensive/Defensive spell system fixed that problem :) Might be a good idea to use that system in that H3 mod you have planned...

[Chopkinsca]

Trasher][ said:
I tried to like you, but the fact the first time I played you was on the crappy N64 version probably killed any chances of an addiction. Sorry man.

I only have played it on N64, and I can say I like it as much, or maybe more than doom. more strategy is needed to complete the game, and each class has a different play feel to it..

[Sharessa]

dsm said:
Faults with HeXen:

Heh...

1. Puzzles are just too damn difficult

I agree. I'm on the third hub now and I'm confused as fuck. I have like 4 of these gems and not a single one wants to go into the big carving thing on the first map. The first two hubs took way too long...you usualy had to just randomly guess what the fuck you were supposed to be doing next. I like Hexen 2 better where the clues are a bit more obvious.

2. No Tome of Power

There isn't? I could have sworn there was one.

3. Complexity

Yeah...most of the shit they have is too damn difficult to use correctly. I can't shuffle through my inventory very well when I'm in the middle of a fight. I just end up hack-n-slashing, and drinking some flasks or craters when I have a break. Besides the occasional use of torches or wings, everything else goes unused.

Hexen may have had better immersion than any other Doom-engine game, but other than that it's kind of weak. If I want to play Hexen, I'll just load up Hexen 2, which is more fun because of the leveling up and less confusing quests, despite the fact that all the enemies look like ass. Also, I actualy have a legit copy of this game. :P

[CacodemonLeader]

I'm not going to state which one is the winner, though Hexen can be quite difficult at times (I spent tons of hours just finding a way to continue through the fourth hub until I realized that there was a switch in the Dungeons that allowed you to enter an area that takes you to another level in the hub. After that, the rest was a piece of cake).

Also, the fifth difficulty is fubar, in fact, the Heresiarch is abusive of his shield and the only way I could beat him on that difficulty was by laying out tons of flechettes as Parias the Cleric!

In fact, my first time playing Hexen was the N64 version, so I'm not sure if they will work on the PC version though.

[Chopkinsca]

CacodemonLeader said:

I'm not going to state which one is the winner, though Hexen can be quite difficult at times (I spent tons of hours just finding a way to continue through the fourth hub until I realized that there was a switch in the Dungeons that allowed you to enter an area that takes you to another level in the hub. After that, the rest was a piece of cake).

Also, the fifth difficulty is fubar, in fact, the Heresiarch is abusive of his shield and the only way I could beat him on that difficulty was by laying out tons of flechettes as Parias the Cleric!

In fact, my first time playing Hexen was the N64 version, so I'm not sure if they will work on the PC version though.

yeah, the first couple plays through were hell for trying to figure out what to do. But after I knew where to go, the game was much more enjoyable.
yeah, the 5th difficulty is tough at times, but I did it for each class.

[Sharessa]

dsm said:

Also, the personified demon lord Korax automatically seems more cheesy than the more "faceless" and animal-like demonbosses in Doom (think Diablo 1+2 where the demonlords seem more like some sort of evil überwizards in personality than actual demons from Hell), but at least he isn't as cheesy as Diablo and the other Prime Evils ended up being in Diablo 2 (particularly Baal sucks imo).

o_O
I liked the demon lords of the Diablo games, though it was dissapointing to learn that Duriel was just a big fucking bug. I do agree that they fucked up Bhaal though. I think he's pretty cool looking until you get down to his lower half. I mean, he's this really vile looking humaniod character with tendrils, but he's being supported by these stupid looking claw-like legs. It makes him look like a demonized sand crab.