'95 Never Dies CP [Full!]

[magicsofa]

Opened up a few slots from people who haven't even logged in to the forums in a long time. They are:

 

E1M7

E1M8

E1M9

 

I've sent PMs to four others who are recently active, so some of those may be dropped as well (E1M4, E1M6, E2M3)

 

EDIT: E4M9 dropped

Edited February 24, 2023 by magicsofa

[Azuris]

I would like to make E1M8.
What is the Deadline?

[OverflowingMocha]

2 hours ago, magicsofa said:

Opened up a few slots from people who haven't even logged in to the forums in a long time. They are:

 

E1M7

E1M8

E1M9

 

Hey, is it possible if I can take E1M7, but drop E4M6?

[magicsofa]

22 hours ago, LGmaire said:

 

Hey, is it possible if I can take E1M7, but drop E4M6?

 

I don't see why not

 

23 hours ago, Azuris said:

I would like to make E1M8.
What is the Deadline?

 

Some Time This Year (tm)

aka Dec 10, 2023

[meiwakuna]

Hello! This seems like a very fun community project and I would like to participate if possible. I've made a couple of vanilla maps before and was wondering if I could take up the E1M9 replacement? 

Edited February 25, 2023 by meiwakuna

[magicsofa]

4 hours ago, meiwakuna said:

Hello! This seems like a very fun community project and I would like to participate if possible. I've made a couple of vanilla maps before and was wondering if I could take up the E1M9 replacement? 

 

You got it

 

That leaves E4M6 and E4M9 open for the moment

[Azuris]

21 hours ago, magicsofa said:

 

I don't see why not

 

 

Some Time This Year (tm)

aka Dec 10, 2023

Perfect. Thank you!

[Amiga Angel]

I would like e4m6 if it is still available

 

this is my starting room or vista so far... I'm using chokolate doom for testing:

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Amiga Angel : pics

[Codename_Delta]

Fuck it, E4M9, its not gonna be symmetrical, but it will be kinda like the symmetrical techbase's visuals.

[Amiga Angel]

More pics...

 

[magicsofa]

6 hours ago, Codename_Delta said:

Fuck it, E4M9, its not gonna be symmetrical, but it will be kinda like the symmetrical techbase's visuals.

 

For sure, in fact following the same exact floor plan is not really in the spirit of the project. We're creating new levels, not remakes!

 

2 hours ago, Amiga Angel said:

More pics...

 

Be careful with those sectors! This room could turn into a visplane overflow fast... (it's not already?)

[Amiga Angel]

7 hours ago, magicsofa said:

 

For sure, in fact following the same exact floor plan is not really in the spirit of the project. We're creating new levels, not remakes!

 

 

Be careful with those sectors! This room could turn into a visplane overflow fast... (it's not already?)

It still seems to work fine in chokolate doom... I have had areas where chokolate doom crashed because of visplane overflow and then I had to go back and change them... but the areas I have right now all seem fine in chokolate doom

 

I just played the original and based on that I decided to make a rocky start area in the same style as the original and have the player start there

 

Hopefully I will end up with something that draws inspiration from the original map but with added visual details that still work in vanilla doom and chokolate doom (however testing in chokolate doom should be sufficient yes?)

[Aku]

my e3m6 is slowly coming together, rather then being a complete open space like the original its goin to be a lot of interconnected outdoor areas & connected castle exteriors but still with the design to free roam for the most part.
 

[mr-around]

I vote for E4M9

[magicsofa]

4 minutes ago, mr-around said:

I vote for E4M9

Sorry, Codename_Delta already claimed it! (I forgot to update the list though)

 

It looks like E1M4 is going to be open however, do you want that instead?

[mr-around]

3 minutes ago, magicsofa said:

It looks like E1M4 is going to be open however, do you want that instead?

 

Nice idea!

[Amiga Angel]

On 3/1/2023 at 10:58 PM, magicsofa said:

 

For sure, in fact following the same exact floor plan is not really in the spirit of the project. We're creating new levels, not remakes!

 

 

Be careful with those sectors! This room could turn into a visplane overflow fast... (it's not already?)

its not but I am very close and after adding more stuff to the room it did go in to visplane overflow but I fixed it by adding walls that blocks some of the views

 

some more pics:

 

the above seems to juuust fit within the limits so far... from what I have seen when testing in chocolate doom

 

layout thus far:

 

 

I likely wont make it as gimmicky as the original but I will be heavily inspired by my favorite things in that level

Edited March 3, 2023 by Amiga Angel

[Use]

Checking in. Map is going well, a few more weeks I'll post something to playtest. :)

[Amiga Angel]

first version of rock castle...

 

rock castle - doom - vanilla - tested in chocolate doom - music: SamSwain RevengeOfThe90s Theme by doomkid - map number is E4M6

 

alpha version 1

 

https://doomshack.org/uploads/rock-castle.wad

[magicsofa]

1 hour ago, Amiga Angel said:

first version of rock castle...

 

rock castle - doom - vanilla - tested in chocolate doom - music: SamSwain RevengeOfThe90s Theme by doomkid - map number is E4M6

 

alpha version 1

 

https://doomshack.org/uploads/rock-castle.wad

 

Looks like a cool map but there are some parts that crash the game. I'm impressed with some of the details that somehow aren't overflowing, however right off the bat I was suspicious of the repeating octagon rooms and as you can see there's a few spots where too much is visible:

 

 

I was able to bring the plane count down by merging all the trim in the octagon rooms, and rebuilding the center column in the larger blood room to the south as an actual solid column (rather than a ceiling/floor at the same spot)

 

There were some other things as well... in the blur sphere secret, you had used a midtexture with multiple patches. This crashes as soon as it comes into view. I  couldn't find a list of all the single-patch textures that are safe to use for middle texture, so I made one (minus the obvious ones that have MID in the name :P)

 

Spoiler

Single-patch Textures:

 

ASHWALL
BIGDOOR2
BIGDOOR3
BIGDOOR4
BLODGR1,2,3,4
BLODRIP1,2,3,4
BROWN96
BROWNGRN
CEMENT1,2,3,4,5,6
DOOR1
DOOR3
DOORSTOP
DOORTRAK
FIREBLU1,2
FIRELAVA,2,3
FIREMAG1,2,3
FIREWALL,A,B
GSTFONT1,2,3
GSTGARG
GSTLION
GSTSATYR
LITEBLU1
LITEBLU2
MARBLE1,2,3
MARBFACE,2,3
MARBLOD1
METAL
NUKE24
NUKESLAD
PLAT1
REDWALL
ROCKRED1,2,3
SHAWN2
SHAWN3
SKINTEK2
SKSNAKE1,2
SKSPINE1
SKY1,2,3,4
SLADRIP1,2,3
SLADWALL
SP_DUDE1,2,3,4,5,6
SP_FACE1
SP_ROCK1,2
STEP1
STEP2
STEP3
STEPLAD1
STEPTOP
TEKWALL2
TEKWALL3
TEKWALL4
TEKWALL5
 

 

Finally, there are a lot of DrawSegs overflow which don't crash the game but cause HOM:

 

This comes from too many textured lines in view at once (max is 256). The main offenders for this would be the parts where you have split up walls into 64-unit segments. It's not the most critical thing, usually far-away lines are the ones that the renderer fails to draw so sometimes you won't even notice. But it can be quite noticeable depending on the situation. To fix it we'd need to combine a lot of those lines or sacrifice detail elsewhere... anyway here's the map with my modifications to get it to run, I didn't mess with drawsegs though:

 

rock-castle2.zip

[Amiga Angel]

4 minutes ago, magicsofa said:

 

Looks like a cool map but there are some parts that crash the game. I'm impressed with some of the details that somehow aren't overflowing, however right off the bat I was suspicious of the repeating octagon rooms and as you can see there's a few spots where too much is visible:

 

 

I was able to bring the plane count down by merging all the trim in the octagon rooms, and rebuilding the center column in the larger blood room to the south as an actual solid column (rather than a ceiling/floor at the same spot)

 

There were some other things as well... in the blur sphere secret, you had used a midtexture with multiple patches. This crashes as soon as it comes into view. I  couldn't find a list of all the single-patch textures that are safe to use for middle texture, so I made one (minus the obvious ones that have MID in the name :P)

 

  Hide contents

Single-patch Textures:

 

ASHWALL
BIGDOOR2
BIGDOOR3
BIGDOOR4
BLODGR1,2,3,4
BLODRIP1,2,3,4
BROWN96
BROWNGRN
CEMENT1,2,3,4,5,6
DOOR1
DOOR3
DOORSTOP
DOORTRAK
FIREBLU1,2
FIRELAVA,2,3
FIREMAG1,2,3
FIREWALL,A,B
GSTFONT1,2,3
GSTGARG
GSTLION
GSTSATYR
LITEBLU1
LITEBLU2
MARBLE1,2,3
MARBFACE,2,3
MARBLOD1
METAL
NUKE24
NUKESLAD
PLAT1
REDWALL
ROCKRED1,2,3
SHAWN2
SHAWN3
SKINTEK2
SKSNAKE1,2
SKSPINE1
SKY1,2,3,4
SLADRIP1,2,3
SLADWALL
SP_DUDE1,2,3,4,5,6
SP_FACE1
SP_ROCK1,2
STEP1
STEP2
STEP3
STEPLAD1
STEPTOP
TEKWALL2
TEKWALL3
TEKWALL4
TEKWALL5
 

 

Finally, there are a lot of DrawSegs overflow which don't crash the game but cause HOM:

 

This comes from too many textured lines in view at once (max is 256). The main offenders for this would be the parts where you have split up walls into 64-unit segments. It's not the most critical thing, usually far-away lines are the ones that the renderer fails to draw so sometimes you won't even notice. But it can be quite noticeable depending on the situation. To fix it we'd need to combine a lot of those lines or sacrifice detail elsewhere... anyway here's the map with my modifications to get it to run, I didn't mess with drawsegs though:

 

rock-castle2.zip

ok, cool .. I will work on fixing the map and post a newer version when I can. Thanks for your help so far.

 

Are there some tools that will help me identify the overflows besides just trying the map in chocolate doom?

[Dusty_Rhodes]

15 minutes ago, Amiga Angel said:

ok, cool .. I will work on fixing the map and post a newer version when I can. Thanks for your help so far.

 

Are there some tools that will help me identify the overflows besides just trying the map in chocolate doom?

Doom Builder has a visplane visualizer tool. Check the bottom of the toolbar on the left, it's the second to last item. Anything that shows up red is liable to crash Choco and the original executable. 

[Amiga Angel]

1 minute ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

Doom Builder has a visplane visualizer tool. Check the bottom of the toolbar on the left, it's the second to last item. Anything that shows up red is liable to crash Choco and the original executable. 

cool.. thanks... what about avoiding DrawSegs overflow, how do I check for this and avoid it?

[magicsofa]

15 minutes ago, Amiga Angel said:

ok, cool .. I will work on fixing the map and post a newer version when I can. Thanks for your help so far.

 

Are there some tools that will help me identify the overflows besides just trying the map in chocolate doom?

 

No problem, there's plenty of time so no big rush. I didn't really play the map "for real", so I will do that soon and to give gameplay-related feedback.

The visplane explorer also has three other modes, drawsegs, solidsegs and openings   

 

You won't have to worry about solidsegs/openings most of the time. Also, keeping "open doors" checked is a good idea. It will calculate as if all the doors in the map are open. It doesn't account for lifts, other moving floor/ceiling, or light changes so on occasion you will have to move things around to get an accurate reading.

[Amiga Angel]

@magic_sofa

is any red at all enough to cause artifacts and/or crash or only bright red? do I need to alter the map so that it only shows blue colors in visplane explorer?

[JustAthel]

Just in general, you can also more accurately find issues with your level by running through it in chocorenderlimits. If it's bright red and you see the number go any higher than 256* (not 128 as initially said) in the editor, that will cause a visplane overflow.

Edited March 8, 2023 by JustAthel

[magicsofa]

24 minutes ago, Amiga Angel said:

@magic_sofa

is any red at all enough to cause artifacts and/or crash or only bright red? do I need to alter the map so that it only shows blue colors in visplane explorer?

 

The red areas are pretty much guaranteed to crash, if you hover the mouse over any spot it will show you the estimated visplane count by the tool. Anything over 128/128 will show red, but if it says 160/128 then you'll have to cut out/rearrange more than if it's only 129/128. The rest of it will be a gradient from bright to dark, or a heat map (I dislike this method even though it's pretty) with the bright or "hot" areas being closer to 128 (but still under). These numbers are just an estimate made by the editor of how many visplanes would be used if the player was standing on the floor in that spot, looking in the worst possible direction. 

 

The actual number of visplanes during the game fluctuates constantly, which can be directly observed by playing your map in Chocorenderlimits. This is a version of chocolate-doom that actually raises the limits, so you can still observe where doom.exe would have crashed. There's a button (F5 I think?) that will even highlight the planes in different colors. You can also see drawsegs overflow, with the "lost" segments highlighted in red.

 

It is really useful to see it in action to understand how the overflow can hit fast even with fairly simple features, and what other factors besides map geometry can change the number. It's affected by the height of the player, changes in light level, and so on. The visplane explorer can't capture all that... but for most purposes it is good enough. I don't mess with renderlimits unless I really have to, I once spent a bunch of time with it because I was trying to squeeze every ounce of detail into a map, and it was certainly educational. But the main takeaway is, every time a height, flat, or light level changes, add a couple planes. Because of this a single hallway with alternating light and dark sectors can crush the limit easily.

 

Take a look at this "simple" hallway:

 

Nothing special, right? When viewing from the east end, this uses 64 visplanes. That's already half of the maximum, just for a pretty boring hallway. But each of those variations in light level means at least one more plane, sometimes two.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the planes are needed based on the perspective of the player. Consider an "L" shaped light. If you view it a certain way, you'll only see dark, light, dark. But if you view it at a diagonal, you'll see dark, light, dark, light, dark. The pocket in between the ends of the light is adding more planes, even though it's not another sector.

[Amiga Angel]

fixed version... this time.. tested in doom.exe in dosbox

 

https://doomshack.org/uploads/rc3.wad

[magicsofa]

That was fast! BTW, you shouldn't need doom.exe because Chocolate Doom will behave exactly the same. But I appreciate your diligence... will test this later today

[Amiga Angel]

11 hours ago, magicsofa said:

That was fast! BTW, you shouldn't need doom.exe because Chocolate Doom will behave exactly the same. But I appreciate your diligence... will test this later today

Thanks.

 

It seems I may need a fair bit of advice regarding encounter design with the doom 1 enemies.

I havent utilized teleporter closets or anything like that. I tried placing the items and enemies similar to the original map.

But I might need to use teleporter closet and monster closets to spice up the combat.