Judgement day?

[myk]

This post stems, like, from here:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13143&perpage=30

* myk looks in disdain at the "thread closing" feature.

Heh... well, I have that power here.

doomedout said:

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myk said:
doomedout, I ask, why even consider that? What if there is (or if you think there is) a judgement day? What will it do for you? Will you feel cozy and sit back and say "oh well, whatever, you're evil and corrupt, I'm good and helpful, you will suffer forever one day, I will be in heaven someday." We can see the existence of the belief in God does not save the world... what does it do? Make you be good; and are you sure this good is any good in any way?

And what if not, or what if the dream of heaven were gone? Would you become evil and corrupt because there is no meaning in life? Meaning in life is based on an uncertain promise that seems baffled every day?
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The whole point I feel again is lost because somehow or the other people have the tendency to embrace to preconceived notions. Judgement day I feel, and I say it humbly, is to remind human beings of their purpose in life.

You say other people embrace preconcieved notions and then you move on to explain this Judgement day thing with your notions of it?

doomedout said:

You see, the only reason you come up with this conclusion is because life in this world HAS become too important or too real for people. They forget that life here is a temporary abode. The Day Of Judgement is there merely to remind us of what we have to do. Having said that, being GOOD is not enough. They are many obligations of a human being not only towards himself but towards others. Now imagine this: A society functioning on the basis of this ideology of Being good to oneself and each other. Don't you think its a society that will progress and prosper? Or do I expect another intensely cynical answer....

Fast to decide the only reason for something, aren't we? And seem to have expected nothing, as you asked for the thread to be closed. You can dream of whatever (inexistent) society you like, but demanding that people should believe in a God that will reward or punish them for being good or being bad (to each other or whatever) will not make it come true, at most they will believe in this God... it might have been smarter to just have worked to make such a society possible; less work, more work to the point. Or is being good (I repeat, I'm not sure what this is) to each other just a ticket to Heaven?

doomedout said:

I am sorry but I DO FEEL WITH ALL MY HEART THAT EVERYONE IS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. If they do not receive justice here, then surely they will in the hereafter.

No, you don't feel that, you say it. You'd feel accountable for your actions if you didn't pretend there is a higher power there to judge you and everyone, later. Daydreaming of Judgement day and projecting your morals unto others or unto yourself pretending that some God will judge people according to the stated morals (or a supposed expansion or ideal of these) will not sway these people, and does little or nothing outside your head.

What will dreaming of an afterlife do? Will you pray that you are good enough (in every sense, whatever that is) to be saved when the time comes?

Do you believe that accountability, responsibility, and insight are copyright (c) God, eternity? Do you think these are judged in the afterlife, later, when God draws his calculator and takes a look at the Book of Life? Or are they judged immediately and instantaneously as you exist, as time moves on? Aren't you responsible for everything you do, every instant, as every choice you make and everything you do has its consequences? So what need is there to consider God and his delayed judgement? Responsibility is inevitable. Face it, or ignore it.

Hmm, I wonder why I replied to this... I mean, for all I care, doomedout could believe in invisible pixies. But oh well, I guess it's my deicidal nature, and maybe this sparks up some insightful ideas on the matter. Anyone?

[doomedout]

myk said:

This post stems, like, from here:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13143&perpage=30

* myk looks in disdain at the "thread closing" feature.

Heh... well, I have that power here.



You say other people embrace preconcieved notions and then you move on to explain this Judgement day thing with your notions of it?



Fast to decide the only reason for something, aren't we? And seem to have expected nothing, as you asked for the thread to be closed. You can dream of whatever (inexistent) society you like, but demanding that people should believe in a God that will reward or punish them for being good or being bad (to each other or whatever) will not make it come true, at most they will believe in this God... it might have been smarter to just have worked to make such a society possible; less work, more work to the point. Or is being good (I repeat, I'm not sure what this is) to each other just a ticket to Heaven?



No, you don't feel that, you say it. You'd feel accountable for your actions if you didn't pretend there is a higher power there to judge you and everyone, later. Daydreaming of Judgement day and projecting your morals unto others or unto yourself pretending that some God will judge people according to the stated morals (or a supposed expansion or ideal of these) will not sway these people, and does little or nothing outside your head.

What will dreaming of an afterlife do? Will you pray that you are good enough (in every sense, whatever that is) to be saved when the time comes?

Do you believe that accountability, responsibility, and insight are copyright (c) God, eternity? Do you think these are judged in the afterlife, later, when God draws his calculator and takes a look at the Book of Life? Or are they judged immediately and instantaneously as you exist, as time moves on? Aren't you responsible for everything you do, every instant, as every choice you make and everything you do has its consequences? So what need is there to consider God and his delayed judgement? Responsibility is inevitable. Face it, or ignore it.

Hmm, I wonder why I replied to this... I mean, for all I care, doomedout could believe in invisible pixies. But oh well, I guess it's my deicidal nature, and maybe this sparks up some insightful ideas on the matter. Anyone?

First point, have I been inflexible? If anything, I have endured all this with patience and understanding of YOUR VIEWPOINTS. Has then been reciprocated?

Your second point I would have to agree with and this is possibly the main reason why I felt it was necessary to close the thread. I wasn't doing anybody any favour and the whole argument was going nowhere. I wasn't there to win opinion, I was there to provoke people into pondering. However, the whole objective of the thread losts its meaning somewhere in the cynicism.

Let me define good here, cause again you make a good point. In the previous posts this whole concept was ambiguous. In religion being good is following the Straight path. Let me elaborate, and since I can only speak for Islam, bear with me here. They are essentially five pillars of Islam: 1) To believe in God, His unity and that Prophet Muhammed as the Last Messenger of God. 2) To pray five times a day in submission to God. 3) Fasting. 4) Zakat, a donation of your wealth to the needy...3.5% if one can afford it. 5) Hajj or pilgrimage if one can afford the trip (at least once in a lifetime). Apart from these activities, there are some ethical responsibilities of an individual and frankly speaking all great religions of this modern era share the same ethical beliefs...ie be good to one another, be kind to your parents, your neighbors...etc. That in itself if another Huge area of religion which I do not want to go to, but you get the idea.

Since God created us, we will inevitably have to go to Him. Do not give me this bullshit that we should be held accountable in this world. It is far too corrupt, too materialistic and too astray to hold such hopes. To say that we as individuals should be accountable for our own actions is again unrealistic because whose to say we are wrong or right in judging ourselves and our actions? Have you ever seen a mob or a war when all sanity is lost admist Man's arrogance and his perception of WHAT IS RIGHT? Let me give you an example... In India, two communities living together in Gujurat...and frankly speaking it was a family neighborhood. One find day, some Islamic fundamentalists burn down a train carrying innocent Indian families. That in itself is a tragedy, but how about the response? In that state, the same families who watch "The Lion King" and Tom and Jerry take to the streets and burn down every Muslim they can lay hands on, rape their women and torture their men. Why? Because at that time they believed they were doing the right thing. Do these people think they are being accounted for? As individuals?

Myk, I do admire your interest in the subject, but I feel if you channel your energy into actually finding more about religion rather than listen to me babbling, it would do you better. I highly suggest you begin reading the Quran and its translation and A LOT of your answers will be found. I just realized that it is exactly people like you who questioned everything that embraced Islam in the first place. They questioned idols and they questioned the ethical and moral values of the society they were living in. I am not a high authority on such things, that is why I suggest this to you.

[læmænt]

doomedout said:

I just realized that it is exactly people like you who questioned everything that embraced Islam in the first place.

You sure? I thought most people who embraced Islam were simply given a choice: convert or die.

[Naked Snake]

doomedout, heh...anyway, since you're spouting off YOUR beliefs, let me do the same.

God, does he exist? Yes, why not? Why can't there be some ultra powerful being created from energies greater than we are made from. Why can't he be immortal? Did this "God" create life? No, but did he create the universe? No, BUT what did he do? He gave the human race a little...direction. Note how most religions believe in an afterlife that either exists as bliss in the sky or damnation below Earth. Why? *shrugs* maybe because God instilled a little datum of knowledge so deep into our brains that it could not be destroyed back then. Now, today, with science, we figured out what makes the universe what it is, but we have NOT disproved there is an allpowerful being. Does this being care about us? Not really, he instilled knowledge that he does exist in us but we ignored it or changed that knowledge.

Does he want you to be good? Well, what is good? Good is not doing things that make other people feel bad, right? But them, if everyone is different, what is evil to them? I can't answer that, but I can answer this. God doesn't care if you do good or bad to humans, as long as you do good to him, worship, believe, thats it. If you do, then, well, you can live with him and the dead eternally in bliss, but if you don't, well, he does not want to grant you this and casts you to torment for eternity. It is that simple. Am I right? Who knows, maybe I am. Am I wrong? Who knows, maybe I am.

[GS-1719]

lament said:

You sure? I thought most people who embraced Islam were simply given a choice: convert or die.

That just shows how little you know.

[læmænt]

GS-1719 said:

That just shows how little you know.

Heh, i'm still right

[GS-1719]

lament said:

Heh, i'm still right

*HINT* No you're not.

[Fredrik]

GS-1719 said:

*HINT* No you're not.

He is right. You are wrong.

[Shaviro]

Edited, cleaned and open for discussion!

[Sharessa]

BBG said:

Note how most religions believe in an afterlife that either exists as bliss in the sky or damnation below Earth.

The Norse belived that all the realms were in various branches of the World Ash, Yggdrasil. Asgard, Realm of the Gods was on one branch, and Midgard (Middle-Earth), the Realm of Mankind was on another. They had a couple 'Hells'. One was Niflheim, Realm of Ice which lay to the North, the other was Muspelheim, Realm of Fire which lay to the South. Also, there was Hel, ruled over by the Godess of the same name which may or may not have been in Niflheim. Of course there is also Alfheim - Realm of the Elves, Jotunheim - Realm of the Giants, Nidavellir - Realm of the Dwarves, and so on also on various parts of Yggdrasil. Nidavellir may have been inside the body of Ymir, the primeval giant.

[myk]

Shaviro said:

Edited, cleaned and open for discussion!

Thanks.

[Melfice]

I hate Polotics, I hate Religion, and everyone is responsible for their own destiny and that which happens after will be determined after whenever after happens. 'Nuff said.

[Fletcher`]

My beliefs: (all IMO)

God created the universe.

We are not alone in the universe. We are NOT the center of attention.
No one is.

Heaven is NOT at the end of the universe, nor is it the beginning. (and heaven is NOT boring, it's like life without the dissapointments, [unless you choose to want them])

Hell is Earth's Backyard. :P

God created science for us to learn.

Our knowledge will NOT be wasted in the afterlife.

God created religion for punishment.

Yes, God loves everyone, but is really starting to get pissed off at a few certain bastards.

He understands that, as a species, we ARE quite flawed. Call us one of His experiments.

No one has invented the 'warp drive' yet.

God doesn't intervene because he can't, but because he want's us to evolve, to become better than what we are.

#include common.acs

int mapvar0

define mapvar0 = God

script 1 OPEN
{
    if(mapvar0 == 0)
    {
    create_universe(1, 10e99); //sector tag 1, speed 10e99
    mapvar0++;    
    }
        if(mapvar0 == 1)
        }
        observe(1); //sector tag 1
        {
}

BTW, I'm not real good on code. :P

I think that's it for me. Yes this mixes creationism + evolutionism, and a good bit of the Bible seems incorrect because of 'moronic' fanatics. (This is all IMO)