Knee-Deep in KDiZD: Released! It's KDiZD for doom2.exe - 1.7.1 is now on /idgames

[esselfortium]

In Slade, copy the KDiKDiZD palette into a wad with your new sprites. Select your new sprites and open Slade's graphic conversion dialog, setting the source palette to "Doom" and the destination palette to "Existing/Global". This should remap them all seamlessly to the KDiKDiZD palette.

 

2 minutes ago, TasAcri said:

I wonder why did the original KDIZD team replaced the fine looking Doom 2 SSG

KDiZD does not use any Doom 2 resources at all, so the Hell Knight, Chaingunner, and SSG all use new sprites.

[TasAcri]

26 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

In Slade, copy the KDiKDiZD palette into a wad with your new sprites. Select your new sprites and open Slade's graphic conversion dialog, setting the source palette to "Doom" and the destination palette to "Existing/Global". This should remap them all seamlessly to the KDiKDiZD palette.

 

Thanks, that fixed the color issue i had.

 

The extra frame doesn't seem to mess the original look that much, i might keep it or just replace it with a double frame, dunno.

 

I had to modify the actual KDIKDIZD mod, i don't know how to do that with an external mod. But it's not a big deal, it's easy enough to replace the sprites in a future update.

 

[TasAcri]

@esselfortium

 

One last question regarding the SSG modding.

 

Is there any text system file in the mod that references the sprite names? I would like to swap them a bit through that. I couldn't find those names in any txt file. The only file that has enough code in it is a "Dehacked" file but there is no reference of any sprite in it.

[esselfortium]

The dehacked patch uses string replacements for sprite names.

[TasAcri]

What i'm trying to do is replace the last frame of the reload animation with a different one. Is that possible somehow?

[Gregor]

1 hour ago, TasAcri said:

Not sure how to do that. Guess it's much harder than i thought. KDIZD SSG even has an extra frame that i will need to replace somehow.

Keep in mind that the KDiKDiZD SSG also has different length of frames as well as more states overall. So to make it behave like the original SSG, you'd have to also make adjustments to the DeHackEd patch. 

 

1 hour ago, TasAcri said:

I wonder why did the original KDIZD team replaced the fine looking Doom 2 SSG (one of the best looking weapons and animations tbh) with that ugly KDIZD one?

 

I suppose the reason why KDiZD had to change the SSG to begin with was that you're legally not allowed to use art assets from one IWAD in a mod for another IWAD. So you can't use sprites or textures from Doom 2 in a mod for Doom 1 and vice versa. So they made had to make a new one from the ground up to be on the safe side.

[TasAcri]

18 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Keep in mind that the KDiKDiZD SSG also has different length of frames as well as more states overall. So to make it behave like the original SSG, you'd have to also make adjustments to the DeHackEd patch.

 

Right now my modification is almost finished. The only thing left is the last animation frame, which is a reused one from earlier in the chain in KDIZD SSG. The original SSG must use a different sprite with a different name though.

 

Looks and sounds good enough without changing any behavior other than visuals and sounds. The only difference is the 1 extra frame (the hands pushing the shells inside the barrel is repeated once) but it's not really noticeable.

Edited December 3, 2022 by TasAcri

[baja blast rd.]

Anyone using the GZDoom source port should also note that there is a simple fix to the SSG situation if so desired. 

 

 

[TasAcri]

If anyone wants to try this with the original SSG, here's the mod for testing (it's the public release 6). The only issue is the last frame of the reload animation, it uses the same sprite where the weapon is at it's highest position, so it looks a bit abrupt when the animation finishes. The only way to fix it is to modify it so the last frame uses a different sprite (one where the weapon is lower).

 

kdikdizd.zip

[Gregor]

Just for the hell of it, here are the differences in state lengths, frames used and actions called for the regular SSG versus the KDiKDiZD one if you want to adjust them in DeHackEd:

 

Normal	SSG			KDiKDiZD SSG

Frame	Dur	Action		Frame	Dur	Action
1. A	3 tics			1. A	3 tics
2. A	7 tics	FireShotgun2	2. A	7 tics	FireShotgun2
3. B	7 tics			3. B	7 tics	CheckReload
4. C	7 tics	CheckReload	4. C	6 tics	
5. D	7 tics	OpenShotgun2	5. D	6 tics	OpenShotgun2
6. E	7 tics			6. E	5 tics
7. F 	7 tics	LoadShotgun2	7. K	4 tics
8. G	6 tics			8. F	4 tics
9. H	6 tics	CloseShotgun2	9. G	5 tics
10.A	5 tics	ReFire		10.H	5 tics
				11.C	5 tics	CloseShotgun2
				12.A	1 tic	WeaponReady

 

 

 

 

[esselfortium]

Note, though, that the KDiKDiZD SSG fires slightly faster than the vanilla one, so if you replicate the vanilla states exactly you'll be slightly underpowered for what the maps expect.

[TasAcri]

11 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

Note, though, that the KDiKDiZD SSG fires slightly faster than the vanilla one, so if you replicate the vanilla states exactly you'll be slightly underpowered for what the maps expect.

 

I don't want to change anything other than the sprites and sounds.

Edited December 3, 2022 by TasAcri

[Gregor]

2 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

Note, though, that the KDiKDiZD SSG fires slightly faster than the vanilla one, so if you replicate the vanilla states exactly you'll be slightly underpowered for what the maps expect.

Does it though? Looking at it, the KDiKDiZD SSG lacks a ReFire state, and as a result, actually has a slightly longer firing cycle than the OG SSG.

58 tics vs 54 if you keep the button depressed. Am i missing something?

[esselfortium]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

Does it though? Looking at it, the KDiKDiZD SSG lacks a ReFire state, and as a result, actually has a slightly longer firing cycle than the OG SSG.

58 tics vs 54 if you keep the button depressed. Am i missing something?

The A_CloseShotgun2 codepointer includes A_Refire, so the 5 tics of that frame should be shaved off if you hold the fire button.

[TasAcri]

10 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Just for the hell of it, here are the differences in state lengths, frames used and actions called for the regular SSG versus the KDiKDiZD one if you want to adjust them in DeHackEd:

 

Normal	SSG			KDiKDiZD SSG

Frame	Dur	Action		Frame	Dur	Action
1. A	3 tics			1. A	3 tics
2. A	7 tics	FireShotgun2	2. A	7 tics	FireShotgun2
3. B	7 tics			3. B	7 tics	CheckReload
4. C	7 tics	CheckReload	4. C	6 tics	
5. D	7 tics	OpenShotgun2	5. D	6 tics	OpenShotgun2
6. E	7 tics			6. E	5 tics
7. F 	7 tics	LoadShotgun2	7. K	4 tics
8. G	6 tics			8. F	4 tics
9. H	6 tics	CloseShotgun2	9. G	5 tics
10.A	5 tics	ReFire		10.H	5 tics
				11.C	5 tics	CloseShotgun2
				12.A	1 tic	WeaponReady

 

 

Can't find those references anywhere.

 

The only line where a "supershotgun" is mentioned has hundreds of lines beneath it. Not sure what that is. Or where the sprites are mentioned.

[Gregor]

1 minute ago, esselfortium said:

The A_CloseShotgun2 codepointer includes A_Refire, so the 5 tics of that frame should be shaved off if you hold the fire button.

Ah i see. It does feel faster in game, so i was wondering this can't be quite right. Is that normal behavior for the CloseShotgun2 codepointer to include ReFire?

[esselfortium]

Just now, Gregor said:

Ah i see. It does feel faster in game, so i was wondering this can't be quite right. Is that normal behavior for the CloseShotgun2 codepointer to include ReFire?

Yep. From the Doom source:

void
A_CloseShotgun2
( player_t*	player,
  pspdef_t*	psp )
{
    S_StartSound (player->mo, sfx_dbcls);
    A_ReFire(player,psp);
}

 

[TasAcri]

Seems like the KDINDIZD shotgun uses the "SSG2C0" sprite name as the last frame of reload animation.

 

I need it to use the "SSG2H0". Just for the last frame, without changing any previous sprite.

 

How do i do that?

[Gregor]

1 minute ago, esselfortium said:

Yep. From the Doom source:

void
A_CloseShotgun2
( player_t*	player,
  pspdef_t*	psp )
{
    S_StartSound (player->mo, sfx_dbcls);
    A_ReFire(player,psp);
}

 

Wait. But why does Doom 2 than even include the separate ReFire state for the SSG?

[Gregor]

1 minute ago, TasAcri said:

Seems like the KDINDIZD shotgun uses the "SSG2C0" sprite name as the last frame of reload animation.

 

I need it to use the "SSG2H0".

 

How do i do that?

Edit the DeHackEd patch by opening it in Whacked4. That's where you'll also find the states displayed i listed above if you go into the weapons tab.

[esselfortium]

7 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Wait. But why does Doom 2 than even include the separate ReFire state for the SSG?

I guess it's so that you can refire during both of those animation frames, rather than just the CloseShotgun2 frame.

[Gregor]

Interesting. Just checked and sure enough, it does skip the SHT2H frame on Refire. Never noticed that. But then the OG SSG would still be slightly faster since it jumps back to its FireShotgun2 state after frame SHT2G = 48 tics for a cycle. While the KDiKDiZD takes 49 tics.

[esselfortium]

Just now, Gregor said:

Interesting. Just checked and sure enough, it does skip the SHT2H frame on Refire. Never noticed that. But then the OG SSG would still be slightly faster since it jumps back to its FireShotgun2 state after frame SHT2G = 48 tics for a cycle. While the KDiKDiZD takes 49 tics.

Ah, good catch.

[Gregor]

24 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

Ah, good catch.

Well, something to update the wiki with.

 

Bit of weird situation really, since the KDiKDiZD SSG is faster through its animation for a single shot (57 vs 62) but slower during its actual firing cycle (49 vs 48).

Edited December 3, 2022 by Gregor

[Worst]

Amazing work on the project!
 

This project has to be by far my most favourite showcase of ZDoom features that I've seen so far! ^{(Despite not actually using any heh...)}
Not to say that this is merely a showcase wad though, the levels look and play so great, that I bet it must have taken a dreadful amount of hours to get everything polished to this degree.

Btw. Some things I noted on the levels:

Spoiler

Z1M3 (MAP15):

• Should sector 121 be flagged as a secret? Unless it's a secret secret or just a thing™.

Z1M5 (MAP17):

• Should sector 279 be flagged as a secret? Similar setup as the other one. Maybe there are more like these that I either missed or forgot about.

Z1M7 (MAP19):

• Should there be a way to re-enter the blue key room after exiting through the nukage path? Maybe make the forcefield disabling switch repeatable?
• Also it looks like while quite unlikely, you could possibly soft-lock yourself, if for some inexplicable reason you would not approach the blue key after triggering the forcefield back on, and if you would instead go all the way through the nukage path, and through the part where you drop and can't come back.
• Looking at the map in the editor, I noticed that the blue door is a bit silly in this map, since you can reach both of its sides without having the key. But you still MUST open it, as opening it also opens one of the other doors required to reach the end of the level.

Z1M8 (MAP20):

• While playing I noticed that the TEKWALLs of sector 1013 are not solid when I shot at a cacodemon and it got pushed through one of them. Not that it's a big deal, but it could be remedied by making sector 1013 only go down far enough to let the resurrectors out, but not far down enough to let cacodemons fit through when pushed against.
• I witnessed some cacodemons getting resurrected on the red keycard side of the map when revisiting it; Do some of the resurrectors get teleported in there, or do they just run rampart so wildly around the map, that they can reach such far areas?

 

[GarrettChan]

The rest of the UV Max playthough:

 

Z1M4

Spoiler

 

 

Z1M5

Spoiler

 

 

Z1M6

Spoiler

 

 

Z1M7

Spoiler

 

 

Z1M8

Spoiler

 

 

Comments on Z1M6:
There a rather weird Cacodemon placement around 11:34 because it's usually stuck inside there and you have to go in and hunt down.

 

Comments on Z1M7:
I think the main goal here is to eliminate the backtracking of the KDiZD map (which I haven't played to experience it), but just about this map without any context, I don't feel bad about any backtracking, and the teleporters take you to the correct spot to move on, even with some monsters to steer the player in the right direction. Therefore I assume the whole "elimination of backtracking" process is successful.

 

Comments on Z1M8:

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT I DIDN'T ACTUALLY MISS ANY KILLS EXCEPT THE LAST 20. Yes, I'm that happy to warrant an edgy full capitalized sentence. The whole design of the hell part is really great. I really love the view and the details (reflections) to it.

 

Overall, I really thank Essel for having me as a playtester. Although I joined in rather late, but still it's great to see the gradual development of some of the trickier maps. Don't want to be bias about mapping formats, but vanilla mapping with limitation always impresses me quite hard because you have to deal with all those annoying limitations. It's kinda an exam of design that you need to carefully solve the questions.

 

UV pistol starts with saves

Port: DSDA-Doom v0.19.7 -complevel 2 etc. (Some other versions of DSDA-Doom and Woof as well)

Total IGT: 3:35:13

Personal Difficulty Evaluation: 1.1 (1 = Plutonia)

Personal Rating: 9.5 (out of 10) 

Sorry Ancient Aliens got lowered by 0.1 point (from 9.5 to 9.4) from my personal rating just to tell I like KDiKDiZD more :rofl:

Edited December 3, 2022 by GarrettChan

[esselfortium]

10 minutes ago, Worst said:

Amazing work on the project!
 

This project has to be by far my most favourite showcase of ZDoom features that I've seen so far! ^{(Despite not actually using any heh...)}
Not to say that this is merely a showcase wad though, the levels look and play so great, that I bet it must have taken a dreadful amount of hours to get everything polished to this degree.

Btw. Some things I noted on the levels:

  Hide contents

Z1M3 (MAP15):

• Should sector 121 be flagged as a secret? Unless it's a secret secret or just a thing™.

Z1M5 (MAP17):

• Should sector 279 be flagged as a secret? Similar setup as the other one. Maybe there are more like these that I either missed or forgot about.

Z1M7 (MAP19):

• Should there be a way to re-enter the blue key room after exiting through the nukage path? Maybe make the forcefield disabling switch repeatable?
• Also it looks like while quite unlikely, you could possibly soft-lock yourself, if for some inexplicable reason you would not approach the blue key after triggering the forcefield back on, and if you would instead go all the way through the nukage path, and through the part where you drop and can't come back.
• Looking at the map in the editor, I noticed that the blue door is a bit silly in this map, since you can reach both of its sides without having the key. But you still MUST open it, as opening it also opens one of the other doors required to reach the end of the level.

Z1M8 (MAP20):

• While playing I noticed that the TEKWALLs of sector 1013 are not solid when I shot at a cacodemon and it got pushed through one of them. Not that it's a big deal, but it could be remedied by making sector 1013 only go down far enough to let the resurrectors out, but not far down enough to let cacodemons fit through when pushed against.
• I witnessed some cacodemons getting resurrected on the red keycard side of the map when revisiting it; Do some of the resurrectors get teleported in there, or do they just run rampart so wildly around the map, that they can reach such far areas?

 

Great catches, thanks!

 

Those closets in Z1M3 and Z1M5 should probably be flagged secret, yes.

 

Very good catch about the potential softlock in Z1M7. I should definitely make the forcefield switch repeatable, or maybe just add another walkover that turns the forcefield off again near the blue door. And yes, the blue door is indeed more or less just a shortcut between areas here. In the original KDiZD map, that nukage path led you directly to the blue door after getting the green key, which was used all the way on the opposite side of the map, so I really wanted to streamline that. I ended up having you visit the blue key area from the opposite side first, to connect to the new lava arena that links to the other end of the map, then come back to the blue key door at the very end. It is admittedly a bit of an unusual setup, but it was the most sensible flow I could come up with to work with the existing structures and eliminate the lengthy backtracking trips.

 

The resurrectors in Z1M8 are a bit unruly and have a tendency to follow you around (seemingly even ignoring monsterblock lines, if I'm not mistaken...) if you leave an area without dealing with them all. I'm not sure what I can really do about that, it's just an inherently kinda awkward setup I think but I really wanted to have the silly resurrection gimmick, so some potentially silly behavior is the price I pay for it, haha.

[esselfortium]

11 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

There a rather weird Cacodemon placement around 11:34 because it's usually stuck inside there and you have to go in and hunt down.

Oops, I'll check into that...

 

11 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Overall, I really thank Essel for having me as a playtester. Although I joined in rather late, but still it's great to see the gradual development of some of the trickier maps. Don't want to be bias about mapping formats, but vanilla mapping with limitation always impresses me quite hard because you have to deal with all those annoying limitations. It's kinda an exam of design that you need to carefully solve the questions.

Thanks so much for helping test!

 

And yeah, there's something about working within awkward limits that feels extra satisfying when you make it work. Though I think I'll probably be done with pushing vanilla limits for a while after BTSX E3 is out. I never imagined I'd be trapped in the vanilla mines for this long back when I first started these projects :P

[Gregor]

I tried replacing the new ssg with the original one just for fun and got the sprites and states to work correctly. However, it won't let me replace the DSDBLOAD sound. I know this is used for the flare rifle instead and skipped by the SSG. But if i include the original one in my wad, shouldn't it load correctly and replace it, giving the flare rifle the SSG reload as a firing sound? Instead this sound effect is now just muted for both the flare and the ssg.

[TasAcri]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

I tried replacing the new ssg with the original one just for fun and got the sprites and states to work correctly. However, it won't let me replace the DSDBLOAD sound. I know this is used for the flare rifle instead and skipped by the SSG. But if i include the original one in my wad, shouldn't it load correctly and replace it, giving the flare rifle the SSG reload as a firing sound? Instead this sound effect is now just muted for both the flare and the ssg.

 

I fixed the sound in my modification.

 

Basically, the original shotgun has 3 different effects. in KDIKDIZD, one of those effects has been replaced by a completely unrelated sound, like you said and the other two sounds are for the new SSG. So what i did was to combine two of the original sounds into a longer one and use two sound files instead of three. You can test it here:

 

kdikdizd.zip

 

Could you upload your mod as well? I'm curious if you fixed the last animation frame, that was where i got stuck.