How to prevent your wads from getting dragged down into the doomworld forum?

[Sasunil bhotos]

I wanted to ask how can i prevent my wad from getting shadowed as new posts are flowing in,because I don't want my levels to get thrown and forgotten ,buried under the pile of posts cause if someone has worked really hard on their wads, they don't want it to be underappreciated and forgotten after a day or two.

 

I know this issue will not happen with prominent mappers, speaking of.

[Doomkid]

Hey there, welcome to DW!

 

One thing that definitely helps to draw people into playing/commenting on your thread is posting some interesting screenshots (and maybe even a “cool font” logo if you’re feeling adventurous) as well as a snappy title, and preferably a short/sweet paragraph with information about the wad such as what port you designed it for, which one you used to test your map, and roughly how difficult the map is.

 

Hopefully this rough guideline helps you out a bit!

[Sasunil bhotos]

4 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Hey there, welcome to DW!

 

One thing that definitely helps to draw people into playing/commenting on your thread is posting some interesting screenshots (and maybe even a “cool font” logo if you’re feeling adventurous) as well as a snappy title, and preferably a short/sweet paragraph with information about the wad such as what port you designed it for, which one you used to test your map, and roughly how difficult the map is.

 

Hopefully this rough guideline helps you out a bit!

I will try to include the aforementioned acts you've said in your post so far in my future posts featuring a wad from now on...

 

And also, thanks for educating me a bit more about how this forum works.

[TheHambourgeois]

bump your thread if you make an update or whatever

[Stabbey]

Yeah, I released a map a week ago and even though there were 200 downloads, the only feedback I got was from someone I DM'ed requesting a test. It was good feedback, but more perspectives would have been nice.

 

Maybe one idea could be a sticky thread for all new releases, where authors post to announce the release of a map - no discussion of maps in that thread, just release announcements. People could check out that thread and see what the latest map drops are or see what ones they missed.

 

I hate the idea that you need to make a fancy splash banner to get attention. Not everyone is a graphical genius. Being a good mapper doesn't mean you're good at making graphics, and vice versa.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Stabbey

[staros96]

Tbh, I’d love to play some new WADs as well (think I might add myself to the tester list!) as I’d like to stream some chilled stuff and give feedback as I go. But yeah, it can be tricky to proactively dig out some new ones to try and review. I can see why the direct DM approach has worked in this regard.

id second Doomkid - think of it as a marketing campaign. Could you do any funky banners? I tend to gravitate towards those; I may be a more visual creature, but even if the map is “basic”, some accompanying banners and preview images would go a long way. Maybe even some background/storyline, or specific questions you’d like answers. I think engagement is what draws people in, but that’s just me! 

[Nightmare2989]

Most of my maps got buried every time i post them it kinda kill it for me mapping wise i feel like it a popularity contest sometimes

[Nightmare2989]

5 minutes ago, staros96 said:

Tbh, I’d love to play some new WADs as well (think I might add myself to the tester list!) as I’d like to stream some chilled stuff and give feedback as I go. But yeah, it can be tricky to proactively dig out some new ones to try and review. I can see why the direct DM approach has worked in this regard.

id second Doomkid - think of it as a marketing campaign. Could you do any funky banners? I tend to gravitate towards those; I may be a more visual creature, but even if the map is “basic”, some accompanying banners and preview images would go a long way. Maybe even some background/storyline, or specific questions you’d like answers. I think engagement is what draws people in, but that’s just me! 

I tried getting people hype for one of my once and i got told off for it as i didn't want my content to get buried 

[Trar]

20 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

I hate the idea that you need to make a fancy splash banner to get attention. Not everyone is a graphical genius. Being a good mapper doesn't mean you're good at making graphics, and vice versa.

I mean, I don't think it necessarily has to be fancy, just notable or attention-grabbing.

[Deadwing]

If I don't get any answers I normally bump once or twice which always leads at least to someone responding, and then consequently getting a few more attention. After that, if the reception is weak then I let it die as it probably didn't attract much people anyway. A well formatted thread with nice pics will definitely get some reception, though, but it can be hard with so much high quality stuff out there nowadays.

[Thelokk]

3 hours ago, Sasunil bhotos said:

how can i prevent my wad from getting shadowed as new posts are flowing in

 

Make an UD episode replacement.

[Trar]

I'd probably map more for friends and discord groups I'm in, since they're more likely to give me feedback or even just try my maps sight unseen.

[Stabbey]

12 minutes ago, Trar said:

I mean, I don't think it necessarily has to be fancy, just notable or attention-grabbing.

 

That's intangible criteria. I don't understand what that means. It also doesn't change the problem of not being good at making banners.

[Trar]

11 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

That's intangible criteria. I don't understand what that means. It also doesn't change the problem of not being good at making banners.

I mean if you can find an easy way of making graphics, or know a graphic designer friend you can get to help you out, that's one way to solve the problem. That, and a banner doesn't need to be super fancy/detailed/intricate to look okay or grab attention.

[Kinsie]

If it helps, the big total conversion I spent like two years on fell off of page 1 into eternal oblivion in like a day.

Well, if it "helps".

[Misty]

By accepting that's natural cycle of any project, no matter how popular it is. It was even worse before wads and mods got subforum. Now wads can stay up to 10-18 hours at the first page depending on activity cycle.  

Tho, it makes me wish that my projects were noticed a bit more and commented/videos shared, but I'll take it. 

[Deadwing]

11 minutes ago, Kinsie said:

If it helps, the big total conversion I spent like two years on fell off of page 1 into eternal oblivion in like a day.

Well, if it "helps".

 

Damn...

From my experience, though, gzdoom wads aren't very much attractive here compared to Boom/Vanilla wads >.<

[Thelokk]

One suggestion I have, unless you're a big name, is to map for community projects / mapping series.

My two single maps for a certain recurring, monthly mapping project have gotten more let's plays, reactions and demos than my 32 map megawad, my 12 mapset and 8 mapset combined. 

[GarrettChan]

Create Sunlust 2 and put it here, and you're guaranteed to stay on page 1, especially without permission.

[Lucius Wooding]

Call your project CREAM.wad, then it will always rise to the top.

[Immorpher]

Here's the strategy I have started to employ...

1) A short but informative title "Maximum Destruction for Doom 2 (4 levels out now!)" or "Maximum Destruction for Doom 2 (4 levels, 1.1 update)"

2) A short paragraph (2-4 sentences) describing the style and story, followed immediately by the download link. Make it easy and upfront for players to download it, you want the least amount of hassle on that part.

3) A collage of 4 to 6 screenshots put into one image collage. You dont want the paragraph above to be too long as it will bump this collage, but you do want the download link above this collage. It seems to me that having screen shots is the most important in getting people to notice it. You can write as much as you want and make a cool ass logo, but from my experience the only thing that matters most is screen shots.

4) After the collage use a spoilers section to include extra information and credits. Most players don't want to read this info right away anyway. The spoilers section is automatically collapsed making it easy for players to immediately get to the comments and leave their own. But in the spoiler section, if you use any textures, inspirations, music from other doomworld members liberally use the @ tag, so they know you used their stuff. People like seeing their own work being used and might leave a comment.

5) Now let it sit for a while, give people a chance to play it. If people leave feedback or bugs respond to them positively, unless its unhelpful criticism and just ignore those comments altogether (dont feed the trolls, and let them yell into a void). But being engaging and being somewhat positive, signifies that you are good to interact with and encourages people to bump up the topic more.

6) If no activity has happened on the topic for over a day, that's when you can consider bumping it by replying to the post. But you can only do this if you have something of value to add. Such things are: a new update which fixes bugs, new levels added (with screenshots), progress on an upcoming level (screenshots again), or a play through on youtube that you or someone else has done. I never will bump a topic more than once a day with the above things (unless its a hotfix), otherwise you are burning through your future opportunities to bump it with valuable content. Also if you bump it too often, people will see that its only you replying and get suspicious.

7) Get to know the Doom community youtubers, streamers, and content creators. It's a big community out there and there's plenty of people who will give your work a chance. Once you get to know these people by interacting with them, you can start recommending your own WADs to play for feedback. They will either stream it or make a video for youtube. You get honest feedback and free advertisement at the same time! Then they will be more likely to reply to your topic, or you can take the initiative and share their videos on your topic to support them! In communities you only get out what you put in, so support content creators.


Even the best WADs sometimes dont get noticed with steps 1-5 (even though they are a required must). 6 gives it another chance to be organically noticed. But if you have tried 7 and still no luck, maybe its a WAD that the community isn't interested in yet. It doesnt necessarily mean its bad, but its something more to your own tastes than others. When I started making dark ambient music, I made it purely for myself as I wanted more of that kind of music, so anyone else who liked it is a lucky bonus (although not required). But as you get more experience in building and playing WADs, you will get a better idea of what parts of the community like, and can get noticed more often.

[Not Jabba]

It's true that a handful of wads have exponentially more staying power -- it's remarkable that KDiKDiZD has been on the front page for days, and that 2022ADO has been on and off the front page for a couple months -- but the mappers who created those wads have been active since 2007 and 1998, respectively. So maybe it isn't that remarkable? Looking at Wads & Mods right now, there are three mega-popular releases on the front page, one of which has existed since 2009 and was last screenshot-updated two weeks ago, but is currently active due to a tangential conversation. I'm not sure if everyone's doing the math here. Your wads aren't being bumped 30+ slots in a day because of those top few wads. They're being bumped 30+ slots in a day because there are 30+ other mappers and modders posting their work at around the same time, all of whom would like to be noticed, just like you. Of course they do! That's totally fair. And next week there will be 30+ more. It's tough, but it helps to look at it realistically. Maybe one of the best things you can do is take a look for other people who are struggling to be noticed, give a bunch of them helpful feedback or props for their work, and see if they return the favor to you when they see that you've posted something (often, they will).

 

Here's a question I have: If you're here posting one of your first maps, do you think you should be as well-known, popular, or highly regarded as someone who's been mapping since 2007 or 1998? Do you think you are as good at this as they are? Honest questions.

 

But sometimes it's just tough. Immorpher's advice above is excellent, but for the cases where something does slip through the cracks for no reason (e.g., Reelism 2, which has a 3-post thread on Doomworld), it's possible that it will thrive better somewhere else (e.g., Reelism 2, which has a 32-page thread on ZDoom Forums). There are lots of ways to be noticed. There are lots of Doom-related Discord servers that accept screenshot hype. Or you could get completely ignored on release and then get an award and be enshrined forever (e.g., Old Still Life last year, or Gods & Guardians the year before that). If none of the above works, it's actually legitimately possible that you are relatively new to mapping and need more experience, or aren't making something that many people are necessarily interested in and may want to improve how you're presenting it, or are making a style of map that 300 other people are also making per year and can't compete with those who are established because you're not doing it as well as they are. As someone who plays a ton of Doom wads every year, both popular and unpopular, I can tell you that in a large majority of cases, the popular stuff is more popular for good reasons. It's not just about being known already; it's about being known already because you already made stuff that people really liked. Most people who are new-ish still need more time to flourish.

 

 

[7Mahonin]

My advice is to share your WAD on your profile page, and the thread you make. It could help bring in more traffic to it here that way. I also suggest not limiting yourself to sharing it here. There are countless sites that host WADS, there's ModDb, and other Doom related forums. If you have social media accounts, such as Facebook, there are Doom related groups you could share the download to and gain further downloads that way. Don't just limit yourself to this forum when it comes to sharing your map. Also, whatever you do, include a TEXT file that explains what the WAD is and who made it, because if the file spreads beyond where you share it to, it could eventually become a map nobody can find out who it belonged to decades down the road.

[Deadwing]

One thing that would be cool, but not sure if possible, is extending the default number of threads in wads & mods from 30 to 60, maybe? That would help a bit some new threads to stay in the 1st page for a little longer and people (like me) who rarely go to the 2nd page would benefit from that.

 

Regardless of that, though, it's hard work to get attention and build a "name" in the community so people get interested by your work. One thing that helped me with Ozonia was to post regular updates with new screenshots and stuff, which attracted the attention of some people. Having other people to be involved in your projects helps too (mappers, musicians, testers, etc). It's not going to get BTSX levels of attention, ofc, but as your work is improved too people will get naturally more interested.

 

Nowadays the bar is really high, though, so it's a really fustraring process that might be indeed too much work

 

[Bri]

I'm usually thrilled if just one person likes my wads. :P

[Shepardus]

Ironically, this thread has gotten more responses than most WAD threads do. So maybe you should post your WAD here. =P

[Sasunil bhotos]

8 hours ago, GarrettChan said:

Create Sunlust 2 and put it here, and you're guaranteed to stay on page 1, especially without permission.

Damn, seeing sunlust god machine alone made me startled, forget about making something better than perfection...

[baja blast rd.]

Something to keep in mind is that the total quality of feedback counts a lot more than sheer numbers. 

 

The popular threads often get the best feedback anyway simply through sheer numbers -- but they usually do that very inefficiently, with a lot of posts that don't really have much substance to them accompanying the good stuff. I've seen some beginner threads not reach the first page but still have better and more useful overall feedback in aggregate than some threads with many pages of responses! 

 

I think a lot of Web 3.0 and social media has altered people's intuition about value and worth to favor sheer numbers over all. But a good way to think about it is that a like or a download or a subscribe or a minimal response just represents the floor of engagement, and there are many forms of engagement that are potentially hundreds of times more valuable than that minimum unit (and that aren't always measurable by just 'adding stuff up'). 

 

For example, if someone were to write a quality long essay about Old Still Life, then just like that, Old Still Life will have gotten more valuable feedback than TNT 2 has ever gotten!

 

So it's more worth thinking about how to present your work to increase the likelihood of "outlier quality" feedback than to increase sheer numbers. (Sheer numbers will often follow that better anyway.) That is arguably just as tricky, but at least then you're solving the right problem. :P 

 

[bofu]

This is a frustration I share a lot. It can be disheartening to post a major update to your WAD and have it disappear an hour later because a bunch of people are spamming the same 40-page threads over and over again.

 

Try to soldier on through it. I recommend reaching out to some of the playtesters who might be willing to comment on the video with a playthrough!

[Herr Dethnout]

18 hours ago, Sasunil bhotos said:

I wanted to ask how can i prevent my wad from getting shadowed as new posts are flowing in,because I don't want my levels to get thrown and forgotten

Luck... Just luck...

The only map that I released (so far) got like 3 or 4 responses with feedback in 2019, but after some new updates few months ago (and a little rant in another thread :P) It got briefly popular for 2 days (although most of the responses are mine hehe)


Also, I you want that your wads being remembered for the ETERNITY (got it?) in the fastest way possible, be sure that is a Cacoward potential wad.