Does Duke Nukem 3d 20th anniversary world tour's 3d mode make the game become true 3D?

[Technicolor]

Does Duke Nukem 3d 20th anniversary world tour's 3d  mode make the game become true 3D?

[Kinsie]

What do you mean by "true" 3D? Do you mean just "it's rendered with polygons" or "some Youtuber told me in between bong hits that it's not true 3D if it's sectors and lines and stuff"?

 

Because the 3D mode is basically the same thing as the Polymost renderer in many Duke3D ports, except way less efficient (hence the Crysis-tier recommended specs)

[Technicolor]

8 minutes ago, Kinsie said:

What do you mean by "true" 3D? Do you mean just "it's rendered with polygons" or "some Youtuber told me in between bong hits that it's not true 3D if it's sectors and lines and stuff"?

 

Because the 3D mode is basically the same thing as the Polymost renderer in many Duke3D ports, except way less efficient (hence the Crysis-tier recommended specs)

 

For example, Quake (1996) is said to be true 3D. That is what I mean.

[Gez]

That's like saying GLBoom+ makes the game "True 3D™".

[Technicolor]

13 minutes ago, Gez said:

That's like saying GLBoom+ makes the game "True 3D™".

 

So it doesn't become true 3D like Quake with 3D Mode On?

[Kinsie]

I'll be honest, Technicolor: At least 90% of the time I don't have a goddamn clue what you're trying to say.

[Technicolor]

1 minute ago, Kinsie said:

I'll be honest, Technicolor: At least 90% of the time I don't have a goddamn clue what you're trying to say.

 

Quake is orginally 3D game.

 

Duke Nukem 3D is originally 2.5D game.

 

In 2016 version of Duke Nukem 3D, there is 3D option in the game.

 

What is not understandable about my question?

[D4NUK1]

It's a more efficent "fake" 3D that helps to play in a more realistic way with mouselooks, as the vainilla mode have the problem of looking really weird or bad on some places looking up and down.

 

Like @Kinsie says, it's another type of rendering the game to have a 3D impresion. Trink like GZDoom OPENGL or Vulkan rendered vs Software.

 

But it's debatable if the game it's real 3D since Vainilla (1996), because, It's more complex than iDTech1 and checks the stuff needed for 3D Game like Quake, like rooms over rooms, X, Y and Z axis and gravity and flying enemy and items.

 

[Technicolor]

2 minutes ago, D4NUK1 said:

It's a more efficent "fake" 3D that helps to play in a more realistic way with mouselooks, as the vainilla mode have the problem of looking really weird or bad on some places looking up and down.

 

Like @Kinsie says, it's another type of rendering the game to have a 3D impresion. Trink like GZDoom OPENGL or Vulkan rendered vs Software.

 

But it's debatable if the game it's real 3D since Vainilla (1996), because, It's more complex than iDTech1 and checks the stuff needed for 3D Game like Quake, like rooms over rooms, X, Y and Z axis and gravity and flying enemy and items.

 

 

I thought Quake was real 3D when Duke Nukem 3D wasn't.

[s4f3s3x]

It's non-polygonal 3D, like Doom but a bit more sophisticated

[Graf Zahl]

The Build engine is as much 3D as the Doom engine - but it allows different sections of the map to overlap in XY space - but only as long as you cannot see both parts at the same time.

 

[Gez]

If you consider that DN3D is not True 3D™ in its original release, then giving it a fancy renderer will not make it True 3D™ either.

 

Just like Doom, it remains a game defined by a sector-based approach, where a map is designed in 2D by plotting vertices, drawing lines, and binding them to areas. A True 3D™ game like Quake uses a completely different approach to mapping, which is based on manipulating solid 3D shapes.

 

This is why I mentioned GLBoom+. Changing the renderer doesn't change the internals. Duke Nukem 3D in "3D Mode" is only True 3D™ if you consider Duke Nukem 3D was True 3D™ to begin with.

[Loud Silence]

3 hours ago, Technicolor said:

Quake with 3D Mode On

Can you share your wisdom how to switch between ON and OFF?

[Technicolor]

4 minutes ago, Loud Silence said:

I changed your writting

Yes you did.

[indigotyrian]

I think the better question is "what does it mean to be true 3D?"

 

What exactly is 3D? Are we defining it by how the world is defined? By the rendering techniques used? By the mode of visual output? What makes Wolfenstein 3D (or Duke Nukem 3D as the case may be) not a "true 3D" game? Is Battlezone a "true 3D" game then?

 

In an age with consumer-ready virtual reality, are contemporary games even "true 3D" anymore? After all, VR gamers will jokingly refer to non-VR games as "pancake games." Does it really matter if the method we use to fake a 3D virtual environment is accomplished via a raycast sector-based environment or via modern rendering techniques, when it's all output on a flat screen?

 

It occurs to me that in order for something to be reasonably "3D," the only thing that needs to be done is to convey an illusion of depth. That's something we've been doing for a very long time. Nobody complained how World Runner 3-D or Space Harrier or Pole Position weren't "really" 3D, because we understood that they are, in fact, simulating depth.

Edited November 27, 2022 by segfault

[Murdoch]

10 hours ago, Technicolor said:

8 hours ago, Technicolor said:

I thought Quake was real 3D when Duke Nukem 3D wasn't.

 

 

Correct.

[Herr Dethnout]

11 hours ago, Technicolor said:

make the game become true 3D

What you do mean? Duke was always 3D. It has "3D" at the title after all...

 

Spoiler

hehe

 

[Gez]

4 hours ago, segfault said:

I think the better question is "what does it mean to be true 3D?"

And before that, the first question would be "does the Truthiness Quotient of 3D really matter?". Really I think it only does if you're designing a game (or a mod for the game) because then understanding how the internals work, and the limits they have, becomes important. When playing, not really. At least not when playing casually; if you're trying to do some crazy speedrun based on weird glitches and exploits, then knowledge of how the internals work also becomes important, even more than if you design a game, really.

 

With that said, personally, my litmus test for True 3D™ is whether there's a Grand Unified Theory of geometry or not. If you have a two-step movement/collision program like in Doom where it's "look for horizontal collisions first, and then look for vertical collision as an afterthought in a completely different part of the code next", then it's not really 3D; it's just 2D + 1D. That can seem to still be 3D, mathematically, but it's not True 3D.

[Kinsie]

my big concern is whether the game is fun to play or not, but maybe i'm just fucked in the head

[Koko Ricky]

Any Doom-esque column rendering engine has 3D coordinates. Even raycaster games like Rise of The Triad have 3D coordinates. They are all 3D games. They are also limited in what kind of 3D information they can render, and this where people trip up, getting into semantics arguments over an imagined objective definition of 3D data.  

[Redneckerz]

 

6 hours ago, Kinsie said:

my big concern is whether the game is fun to play or not, but maybe i'm just fucked in the head

Yeah you are. A game can only be fun if it is coded in three dimensions.

[Murdoch]

6 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

 

Yeah you are. A game can only be fun if it is coded in three dimensions.

 

Agreed. 2D is for pussies.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

56 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

2D is for pussies.

Should have been one of Duke's one-liners.

[Kyle07]

16 hours ago, Loud Silence said:

Can you share your wisdom how to switch between ON and OFF?

My first idea would be to play a doom wad with Quake content. :p

 

Yeah, because they label it in the 20th anniversary edition as true 3D, I was also questioning what sorcery did they use, that it is now so different.

[Loud Silence]

37 minutes ago, Kyle07 said:

My first idea would be to play a doom wad with Quake content. :p

But Doom is 3D. There should be something else OP is hiding from us. Something which made him play "Quake with 3D Mode On".

[Technicolor]

1 hour ago, Loud Silence said:

But Doom is 3D. There should be something else OP is hiding from us. Something which made him play "Quake with 3D Mode On".

 

I said 3D Mode for Duke Nukem 3D 2016 version.

 

Doom is 2.5D. Quake is 3D.

[Murdoch]

22 minutes ago, Technicolor said:

 

I said 3D Mode for Duke Nukem 3D 2016 version.

 

Doom is 2.5D. Quake is 3D.

 

Doom is 3D. It renders 3D environments and tracks positions of things on all three axis. Limited 3d, true, but 3d none the less. 2.5D is a term better applied to Wolfenstein 3D which has no concept of the Z axis at all.

[mrthejoshmon]

 

 

We've done this dance 256 times now (and counting).

[Kinsie]

1 hour ago, Technicolor said:

 

I said 3D Mode for Duke Nukem 3D 2016 version.

 

Doom is 2.5D. Quake is 3D.

[Technicolor]

26 minutes ago, Kinsie said:

 

What happened?