I want to get started editing...

[Chisato]

But the massive array of "help documents"/tutorials and editors is absolutely bewildering. I have no idea where to begin. I was hoping someone could give me some idea where to start. Sorry to bother you! ^^;;;;;

[ghost]

the best way is to just go try out some editors. i started by learning from mistakes and reading the help files that came with the editor [wadauthor in this case] - i didn't have any internet for reference then. i'm convinced one of the best ways to learn is by trying it out.

[ghost]

...then come to the forums for anything you still can't work out. i know what you mean, there is a lot of techie like stuff in there i don't fully understand myself.

[ghost]

ah, i just thought. i also learnt a great deal by opening existing maps and seeing how id or whoever got stuff to work.

[Stealthy Ivan]

You should go get yourself a copy of DeePSea (one of the best doom editors out there!!!) and just start playing around with it. Eventually you will figure it out, plus all the help files and tips will kind help out. That editor is also one of the most self explanitory (if your smart) editors out there.
For example...
S for sectors, V for vertexes T for things, and so on...

[Amaster]

I would say start out with Wad Author instead of deepsea. WA has a great tutorial and a simple interface. Deepsea can seem overwhelming at first.

[Chisato]

I'm fiddling around with Wadauthor, but I've found a weird bug. When I try to run the map from Wadauthor, Warun just gives the error message "This program can't be run from DOS mode" instead of doing anything. I'm using the Zdoomold.wcf for editing at the moment. Anyways... ^^;;;;

[boris]

WArun fools the programs to believe they are in DOS, so it won't run any Windows program. IIRC there is a new wadrun.exe somewhere on the ZDoom site (probably in /ftp), but I'm not 100% sure.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Chisato said:

I'm fiddling around with Wadauthor, but I've found a weird bug. When I try to run the map from Wadauthor, Warun just gives the error message "This program can't be run from DOS mode" instead of doing anything. I'm using the Zdoomold.wcf for editing at the moment. Anyways... ^^;;;;

Open your wauthor.ini file using notepad and put the following line at the top:

[DEBUG]
NoWARun=1

[Torn]

Stealthy Ivan said:

You should go get yourself a copy of DeePSea (one of the best doom editors out there!!!) and just start playing around with it. Eventually you will figure it out, plus all the help files and tips will kind help out. That editor is also one of the most self explanitory (if your smart) editors out there.
For example...
S for sectors, V for vertexes T for things, and so on...

Why?, when Wad author is so much better....

[Torn]

Chisato said:

But the massive array of "help documents"/tutorials and editors is absolutely bewildering. I have no idea where to begin. I was hoping someone could give me some idea where to start. Sorry to bother you! ^^;;;;;

Well... I will give your a url to the wadster handbook, You learn alot in that one :)

ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pc/games/idgames/docs/editing/handbk21.zip


Edit:

Mirror:
ftp://3darchives.in-span.net/pub/idgames/docs/editing/handbk21.zip

[Grimm]

I'd recommend DEU 5.21! :p But, uh, seriously, DeepSea looked really good before it crashed, and DETH looked pretty good, too.

[Epyo]

Torn said:

Why?, when Wad author is so much better....

Hey hey hey, let's not make a flamewar here.

[Chisato]

Oh, and I have one last stupid question before I go. What and where is the iWAD zdoom.wcf expects? I tried the "zdoom.wad" that came with Zdoom, but it wasn't what it wanted.

[boris]

You need a doom2.wad in Hexen format. You can create one using zwadconv, which comes with ZDoom's editing utilities. You can download them from http://zdoom.notgod.com/ftp (which is down right now though).

[thedemonsarecoming]

And the default name for the converted IWAD it looks for is zdiwhack, so be sure to name it that.

[Ed]

I started with Waded, it's not the most sophisticated and it has it's limits, but it's definately the easiest to learn IMO.

[netnomad312]

Torn said:

Why?, when Wad author is so much better....

And I thought I was the only one who thinks sector-based editing is better than placing linedefs in DeePsea and praying that they hook up... hmm. This simplicity thing could certainly catch on, methinks.

Chisato, go ahead with WadAuthor. If you can't make heads or tails of DeePsea, that's the editor for you. It can't edit anything but the levels, but that's why we have that wonderful little program called Wintex. But don't concern yourself with that stuff now. I've only been using Wintex for the last month (of course, I've only been editing for two).

[Torn]

netnomad312 said:

And I thought I was the only one who thinks sector-based editing is better than placing linedefs in DeePsea and praying that they hook up... hmm. This simplicity thing could certainly catch on, methinks.

Chisato, go ahead with WadAuthor. If you can't make heads or tails of DeePsea, that's the editor for you. It can't edit anything but the levels, but that's why we have that wonderful little program called Wintex. But don't concern yourself with that stuff now. I've only been using Wintex for the last month (of course, I've only been editing for two).

Yeah, why use time on place each line and connect, when you can make a finished sector on a half sec. :)

to Chisato:
But I think wad author is easiest to learn, imo.
(well, I think it is the editor people start with, they think that is the easiest editor).
But all you need to have in wad author, is in the right click menu :)

[deep]

Torn said:

Yeah, why use time on place each line and connect, when you can make a finished sector on a half sec. :)

Not disagreeing for beginners - but DeePsea has exactly the same PREFAB tools and then some. Btw, there is NO praying that they hook up - it's guaranteed they hook up if you just quit before the last line is drawn - since it connects automatically to the starting point. Visual cursor feedback shows you exactly when one is on a vertex or on top of line - so even doing continuous drawing and automatic line splitting is pretty easy if one has good eyesight:)

The real problem with prefabs is that you spend a massive of amount of time splitting, moving and otherwise grubbing around with the raw prefab to get what you want in the end - in the context of a completed level. IOW, it's the time AFTER the basic prefab that is the issue.

It does take a bit of extra effort to learn how to take advantage of the variety of methods. And it's true that the editor people start with tends to be the one they think is the easiest - since learning any editor is not easy for a beginner. That's why some prefer dot-to-dot:)

Current version is 11.74 sbsoftware.com - not the old stuff here on DW.

[Dingus Khan]

I'm looking into getting started with level creating myself and was wondering which utility to use for creating ddfs. I've seen some really awesome stuff for Edge and i'd like to do that also (if you dont have to be a programming god to figure it all out that is).

Does anyone know of an alternate site to get wadauthor besides 3D downloads? I can't get it to work for me. The download window refreshes, but wont start the download.

[BlueBeast]

I still use WADED because it's interface is so easy to work with...


Go get a copy of "TRICKS OF THE DOOM PROGRAMMING GURUS" off of amazon.com or somewhere, it's out of print but still available if you look...

It came with a CD ROM, but you dont need it since all the programs on it are readily available online...

Half the book is devoted to level creating using WADED... it's like a bible even if you dont use WADED since so much of the 'rules' to level making are universal no matter what editor you're using.

You'll need little else for a bigginer... i still use the book for when i have questions.

[ReX]

Chisato said:

But the massive array of "help documents"/tutorials and editors is absolutely bewildering. I have no idea where to begin. I was hoping someone could give me some idea where to start.

Staying on track here, Chisato wanted to know where to begin with editing. Here are some suggestions:

1. Spend some time reading the tutorials. You will learn the fundamentals, and, most importantly, the terminology. The two tutorials that helped me the most when I was getting started were:
Getting Started with DooM Editing by John Bishop, and
The Unofficial Wad Designer's Handbook by Ron Allen and Bill McClendon.
2. ghost already suggested opening up an editor and exploring. After you've tried out a few editors and settled on the one with which you are most comfortable, open up maps that you've played. The original DooM and DooM2 maps are great for starters, as they contain examples of most things you can do with the original DooM engine.
3. Start making your own maps. Experiment with rooms, doors, windows, wall recesses, overhangs, platforms, stairs, and lifts. These type of constructs typically form the bulk of most maps.
4. Experiment with wall textures and floor/ceiling flats. You'll find that if you use constructs and textures within a general theme (e.g., military base, medieval, hellish) your maps will look more natural.
5. Experiment with the various effects -- teleportation, flickering lights, hazardous areas, crushing ceilings, etc.
6. Experiment with enemies, traps, and gameplay. Use enemies selectively, as each has strengths and weaknesses. Not every enemy works in every situation. Make sure that you give your enemies enough room to move and maneuver. Putting a "wide" enemy in a narrow corridor causes them to be stuck to the walls, defenseless and unable to move or attack.
7. Experiment with weapons, ammo, health, armor, and other powerups. Strive for a balance, so that the player is challenged but not frustrated. Give the player just enough to be able to overcome the obstacles you put in his or her way.
8. Work on the details of your maps. Pay attention to texture alignment, add architectural accents, add decoration and scenery.

Good luck.

[Sharx]

I noticed that someone posted a reference to my document earlier in this thread. In fact the link given is way out of date (Compuserve died long ago) although amazingly it still works. I have added a couple of updates since originally writing the document. The latest version is available from http://www.users.waitrose.com/~sharx/dmstrtd.htm.

Best,


John Bishop

[CodeImp]

You just bumped up a 2 year outdated topic to post a dead link. Good move.

[boris]

CodeImp said:

to post a dead link.

Oh come on. It's at http://www.users.waitrose.com/~sharx/dmstrtd.htm

[CodeImp]

I just tried the link and it gave me clearly a 404... odd. Doesnt beat the fact that its digging up a 2 year old topic though :P But its a good informative page, ill add it to my site for the FAQ :)

[insertwackynamehere]

thats cause there was a period at the end

[Deathmatcher]

Ed said:

I started with Waded, it's not the most sophisticated and it has it's limits, but it's ********ly the easiest to learn IMO.

I also started with WADED and have been using it for eight years, from 1996 - 2004. Just some weeks ago, I switched to Doom Builder, it's really a great and easy to use editor and it's so stable, powerful and comfortable compared to WADED. I loved the time with WADED but I just can't stand its weaknesses, instabilities and limitations anymore.

[Submerge]

That Doom Gurus book.... Don't look for it.

There is an updated (but still out of print) version of this book called '3D Alchemy'. Pick it up. I read mine so much i ruined my first copy and had to go get another! ha.

and as for editors? I'm finding Doom Builder to be clean and simple, albeit... it doesn't seem to have error checking, nor a couple of features that WADAuthor had that I used a lot.

And DeepSea? I suggest you get into that one after you know what you're doing. it's cryptic, IMO.