janiform Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) Doom 2 Minus Doom IWAD: doom2.wad Format: Vanilla, limit-removing Rules: As much as possible, this is Doom 2 without anything from Doom – only Doom 2 textures, only Doom 2 enemies. Monsters: Only the monsters added by Doom 2 are allowed. Consider how this changes the combat dynamics. Heavy weapon dude Hell knight Revenant Mancubus Arachnotron Pain elemental (and thus lost souls spawned by pain elementals) Arch-vile Wolfenstein SS (optional) Commander Keen (Map 32 only) Icon of Sin (and thus the monsters it spawns, MAP30 only) Weapons: everything except the single-barrel shotgun Other things: Can be used as usual, though when applicable preference should be given to Doom 2-exclusive things, like hanging bodies, rather than their Doom equivalents. You can see what things were added in Doom 2 here: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Thing_types Textures/Flats: Aside from liquids, teleports, exit signs, key textures (DOORRED etc.), F_SKY, and steps, only Doom 2-exclusive textures and flats should be used. If you feel like there should be another exception, or if you notice a Doom 2-exclusive texture missing from the list, please post about it! Here is a list of the textures and flats exclusive to Doom 2: Textures: Spoiler ASHWALL2 ASHWALL3 ASHWALL4 ASHWALL6 ASHWALL7 BFALL1 BFALL2 BFALL3 BFALL4 BIGBRIK1 BIGBRIK2 BIGBRIK3 BLAKWAL1 BLAKWAL2 BRICK1 BRICK10 BRICK11 BRICK12 BRICK2 BRICK3 BRICK4 BRICK5 BRICK6 BRICK7 BRICK8 BRICK9 BRICKLIT BRONZE1 BRONZE2 BRONZE3 BRONZE4 BRWINDOW BSTONE1 BSTONE2 BSTONE3 CEMENT7 CEMENT8 CEMENT9 CRACKLE2 CRACKLE4 CRATE3 DBRAIN1 DBRAIN2 DBRAIN3 DBRAIN4 MARBFAC4 MARBGRAY METAL2 METAL3 METAL4 METAL5 METAL6 METAL7 MIDBARS1 MIDBARS3 MIDBRONZ MIDSPACE MODWALL1 MODWALL2 MODWALL3 MODWALL4 PANBLACK PANBLUE PANBOOK PANBORD1 PANBORD2 PANCASE1 PANCASE2 PANEL1 PANEL2 PANEL3 PANEL4 PANEL5 PANEL6 PANEL7 PANEL8 PANEL9 PANRED PIPES PIPEWAL1 PIPEWAL2 ROCK1 ROCK2 ROCK3 ROCK4 ROCK5 SFALL1 SFALL2 SFALL3 SFALL4 SILVER1 SILVER2 SILVER3 SK_LEFT SK_RIGHT SLOPPY1 SLOPPY2 SP_DUDE7 SP_DUDE8 SP_FACE2 SPACEW2 SPACEW3 SPACEW4 SPCDOOR1 SPCDOOR2 SPCDOOR3 SPCDOOR4 STONE4 STONE5 STONE6 STONE7 STUCCO STUCCO1 STUCCO2 STUCCO3 SW1BRIK SW1MARB SW1MET2 SW1MOD1 SW1PANEL SW1ROCK SW1SKULL SW1STON6 SW1TEK SW1WDMET SW1ZIM SW2BRIK SW2MARB SW2MET2 SW2MOD1 SW2PANEL SW2ROCK SW2SKULL SW2STON6 SW2TEK SW2WDMET SW2ZIM TANROCK2 TANROCK3 TANROCK4 TANROCK5 TANROCK7 TANROCK8 TEKBRON1 TEKBRON2 TEKGREN1 TEKGREN2 TEKGREN3 TEKGREN3 TEKGREN4 TEKGREN5 TEKLITE TEKLITE2 TEKWALL6 WOOD10 WOOD12 WOOD6 WOOD7 WOOD8 WOOD9 WOODMET1 WOODMET2 WOODMET3 WOODMET4 WOODVERT ZDOORB1 ZDOORF1 ZELDOOR ZIMMER1 ZIMMER2 ZIMMER3 ZIMMER4 ZIMMER5 ZIMMER7 ZIMMER8 ZZWOLF1 ZZWOLF10 ZZWOLF11 ZZWOLF12 ZZWOLF13 ZZWOLF2 ZZWOLF3 ZZWOLF4 ZZWOLF5 ZZWOLF6 ZZWOLF7 ZZWOLF9 ZZZFACE1 ZZZFACE2 ZZZFACE3 ZZZFACE4 ZZZFACE5 ZZZFACE6 ZZZFACE7 ZZZFACE8 ZZZFACE9 Flats: Spoiler GRASS1 GRASS2 GRNLITE1 GRNROCK RROCK01 RROCK02 RROCK03 RROCK04 RROCK05 RROCK06 RROCK07 RROCK08 RROCK09 RROCK10 RROCK11 RROCK12 RROCK13 RROCK14 RROCK15 RROCK16 RROCK17 RROCK18 RROCK19 RROCK20 SLIME01 SLIME02 SLIME03 SLIME04 SLIME05 SLIME06 SLIME07 SLIME08 SLIME09 SLIME10 SLIME11 SLIME12 SLIME13 SLIME14 SLIME15 SLIME16 Here is an image of the textures and flats exclusive to Doom 2: Spoiler Skies: Vanilla Music (and other assets): @Demonic Meatball has written awesome MIDIs in the Doom 2 style for this project; I've compiled the current tracks, along with the custom menu and statusbar GFX, into this wad: d2minusd-assets_V3.zip Mapping guidelines: All maps should have difficulty settings implemented, as well as courtesy coop and deathmatch player starts. Maps shouldn't be remakes of Doom 2 maps, but should be roughly similar in detail, size and difficulty to maps from the Doom 2 iwad. This isn’t a _twid project, but try to avoid massive maps and slaughter maps. Consider giving preference to line types originating from Doom 2 (99—100, 105+), which help give Doom 2 its distinct feel. Fast doors encouraged! Themes: This project follows the original “episode” themes: maps 01-11 are a space station on Earth, maps 12-20 are city environments, and 21-30 are hellish. Consider how these general themes can be conveyed using only the Doom 2 exclusive textures. Also consider if/how the Wolfenstein textures could be incorporated into these themes. The secret maps DON’T have to be Wolfenstein-related, Time limit (UPDATED): Submissions due by 3-31-24. Map list: Claimed: 32/32 Completed: 30/32 Episode 1: The Space Station MAP01 - Access Point - by @Rorix: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2671244 MAP02 - Toxic Disposal - by @Walter confetti: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2788031 MAP03 - Comm Center - by @Somniac: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2787538 MAP04 - Exit Planet Dust - by @NeedHealth: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2653544 MAP05 - Undertime - by @Kuro_mahoh: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2785732 MAP06 - The Compactor - by @Rorix: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2776120 MAP07 - Triangles of Death - by @riderr3: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2690359 MAP08 - Traps and Tricks - by @Bri0che: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2596743 MAP09 - Akuji Blood Pit - by @Lorcav: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2598479 MAP10 - Cold Storage - by @EPICALLL: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2601897 MAP11- Dead Battery - by @big smoke: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2783470 Episode 2: The City MAP12 - Suburbs Factory - by @Forgotten Soul: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2772372 MAP13 - Uptown - by @Eon Toad: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2746361 MAP14 - The Inner Sanctum - by @Rorix: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2760914 MAP15 (secret exit to MAP31) - Bibliophobia - by @RED77: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2598843 MAP16 - claimed by @Anarkzie MAP17 - Evil Hidden in Plain Sight - by @stridertech: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2776309 MAP18 - Infested District - by @GamingGargoyle: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2783073 MAP19 - The Castle - by @Rorix: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2685886 MAP20 - Neveropolis - by @Quill: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2665762 Episode 3: Hell MAP21 - Polly - by @Bagellio: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2787404 MAP22 - Your Wishes Can't Be Real - by @Forgotten Soul: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2776965 MAP23 - Abyss - by @janiform: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2785868 MAP24 - Not Chasm - by @Sneezy McGlassFace: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2760609 MAP25 - Cavern of Shadows - by @RileyXY1: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2779375 MAP26 - claimed by @PasokonDeacon MAP27 - Fortress of Pain - by @PinkFlamingo: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2620352 MAP28 - The Spirit Hub - by @Andrea Rovenski: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2783756 MAP29 - A Dead Start - by @Generic Doomer: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2697099 MAP30 - Sinecure - by @Demonic Meatball: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2769973 Secret:MAP31 (secret exit to MAP32) - Unknown Echo - by @Bochnik Chleba: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2785829 MAP32 - Pustyrnik - by @SilverMiner: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/2780479 Edited April 9 by janiform 47 Share this post Link to post
xScavengerWolfx Posted January 13, 2023 So my question is this. When you say limit removing do you mean something like UDMF Format or do you mean vanilla format? If either or i can work with both since the community project i worked on just got a full release i'm open for another one. Also is there a time limit or is it work at your own pace? 1 Share this post Link to post
Lorcav Posted January 13, 2023 This sounds like an interesting set of restrictions, I'm in! I'd like to do one of the space stations I think, can I bag Map 09? 0 Share this post Link to post
RonnieJamesDiner Posted January 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Lorcav said: can I bag Map 09? I see that Into Sandy's City grab, I see you. Interesting project idea! I can smell the Plutonia style maps already haha, and I like it. The Cyb feels like a devastating loss. 4 Share this post Link to post
janiform Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, xScavengerWolfx said: So my question is this. When you say limit removing do you mean something like UDMF Format or do you mean vanilla format? If either or i can work with both since the community project i worked on just got a full release i'm open for another one. Also is there a time limit or is it work at your own pace? Thanks for asking! This is a vanilla format project, and deadline is the end of 2023. I've updated the first post with this info. @Lorcav , I've added your slot to the map list! I agree about the loss of the cyberdemon. I've been considering a new, cyberdemon-free titlepic.... 1 Share this post Link to post
SilverMiner Posted January 13, 2023 bad news Doom 2 and Doom both contain Doomguy. *doomguy removal noises* what about an elf replacement for him? Heretic came out just between Doom and Doom II 3 Share this post Link to post
SilverMiner Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) I'd like map32 EDIT: Slime14 and so on metal flats seem missing in your flat list 0 Share this post Link to post
janiform Posted January 13, 2023 @SilverMiner Thanks for the correction - I've updated the list and image. I've added you to the map list! 1 Share this post Link to post
Anarkzie Posted January 13, 2023 Shouldn't it be limited to only the super shotgun as all the other weapons were in Doom 1? 3 Share this post Link to post
janiform Posted January 13, 2023 @Cammy I'm probably swayable on the music issue; my main goal is just to emphasize the Doom 2-ishness as much as possible. @AnarkzieThere's nothing stopping you from contributing a SSG-only map! It seems too limiting for the project as a whole, though, especially given that chaingunners drop chainguns. 0 Share this post Link to post
Anarkzie Posted January 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, janiform said: @Cammy @AnarkzieThere's nothing stopping you from contributing a SSG-only map! It seems too limiting for the project as a whole, though, especially given that chaingunners drop chainguns. Okay put me down for map 6 and I'll see what I can come up . 0 Share this post Link to post
Kyka Posted January 14, 2023 This is a cool idea for a project. I am not gonna get involved, just because I want TNTF done before I touch anything else. But super neat idea. Good luck with it. :) 1 Share this post Link to post
MFG38 Posted January 14, 2023 9 hours ago, xScavengerWolfx said: When you say limit removing do you mean something like UDMF Format or do you mean vanilla format? Generally, limit-removing implies vanilla format but ignoring the static limits. What that essentially means is that functionality is limited to the actions available in vanilla Doom (albeit with the addition of the MBF sky transfer, since Crispy Doom supports that), but you don't have to worry about visplane overflow and whatnot. 10 hours ago, janiform said: Music: Vanilla Oh, come on. 0 Share this post Link to post
Bri0che Posted January 14, 2023 I am highly interested ! I'll surely take Tricks and Traps, MAP08 :) 1 Share this post Link to post
Walter confetti Posted January 14, 2023 Sure this year we have a lots wacky CPs gimmicks! This is also a pretty concept, i made a map for a old Mega project that uses the same gimmick with monsters (that was borrowed from a Abyssal Session iirc)! Yeah, i was thinking too about why not let people use their own midis? Also i have some ideas for unused monsters/things from Doom in this project giving them a sort of new life... 1 Share this post Link to post
Egg Boy Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, xScavengerWolfx said: So my question is this. When you say limit removing do you mean something like UDMF Format or do you mean vanilla format? If either or i can work with both since the community project i worked on just got a full release i'm open for another one. Also is there a time limit or is it work at your own pace? I know this sort of thing can be confusing, but limit-removing, when it comes to Doom maps, refers specifically to the removal of static limits like visplane, drawseg, and sprite limits. Limit removing maps are Doom format, and are played in complevel 2, meaning they adhere to vanilla line actions and behavior. https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Limit_removing 4 Share this post Link to post
Bri0che Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) Btw, I think that FLAT20, DOORSTOP, DOORTRACK, and all the "DOOR()" showing which key you have to use on it should be enabled as they are too indispensable and commonly used for doors, maybe we can pass for FLAT20, DOORSTOP and DOORTRACK, but I think that without the others the outcome will be meh. 3 Share this post Link to post
Kyka Posted January 14, 2023 Yeah actually I agree with Brioche. (I can't @ because I can't type that o with the line through it haha) There are certain generic workhorse textures and flats that should be in there. FLAT1. CEIL5_1. FLAT14. GRAYBIG. METAL. That said, sometimes you can get some really cool results when you impose more limitations, so idk. But these textures/flats add background ambience without really intruding on the 'feel' of the levels I think. 0 Share this post Link to post
Anarkzie Posted January 14, 2023 I was thinking about this thread on the way to my gym. It's going to have an interesting affect on the combat, as Doom 2 introduced a whole mid tier class of enemies, we cannot simply spam Imps when placing monster. The early levels are going to especially need to think about this, it should be fun. 0 Share this post Link to post
Somniac Posted January 14, 2023 Interested, claiming MAP03 please. I assume we can pretty much do anything and the maps don't have to be an effective remake of their originals? Up for it either way. 0 Share this post Link to post
BluePineapple72 Posted January 14, 2023 17 hours ago, janiform said: @Cammy I'm probably swayable on the music issue; my main goal is just to emphasize the Doom 2-ishness as much as possible. My two suggestions are this: 1. Use DOOM 2 midi remixes. Not slagging the old songs, but I think to really emphasize Doom 2-ishness you should go the route of having remade versions of each songs in the wad as opposed to just playing the same songs everyone has heard hundreds of times. 2. For mapper's ease I'd create a texture resource that replaces all of the Doom 1 textures and flats with pink. It'd be fairly easy to pull off. All you'd need to do would be to duplicate the 'void' texture in slade and rename it to every single texture you don't want used. That way when you open up builder the doom 1 textures will be replaced by the placeholder. 7 Share this post Link to post
janiform Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) Thanks @MFG38 and @Egg Boy for clarifying the format. I've added that Doomwiki link to the first post. @Briøche Added! (I can't seem to @ you)@NeedHealth Added!@GamingGargoyle Added!@Chainie Added!@Somniac Added! And the maps should be original, not remakes of Doom 2 maps. I've (hopefully) clarified this in the first post.@BedrockCastle Added! @Anarkzie I agree! The whole combat dynamic changes without the Doom 1 monsters. @Cammy @MFG38 @Walter confetti @BluePineapple72 Regarding custom music: Okay, I'll change the restriction to allow custom music. Just try to keep the Doom 2 vibe! @Briøche @Kyka Regarding allowed textures: The key textures (DOORRED etc) have been added to the list of exceptions, for the same reason the exit textures are allowed. The other textures mentioned are certainly useful but the project is more interesting without them, IMO. @BluePineapple72 That texture idea sounds good! I'll try to make something like that soon. 4 Share this post Link to post
Bri0che Posted January 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, janiform said: @Briøche Added! (I can't seem to @ you) Nice ! I was already working on my map. It's all right for the @, you are definitively not the first one telling me that, maybe I'll just delete this ø and put a basic o like I should have done it times ago ^^" Quote The other textures mentioned are certainly useful but the project is more interesting without them, IMO. Yeah, I did the same reflexion to myself at the end, definitively fun to try to render something good with such a limitation of texture, but DOORRED etc. were indeed too needful as EXIT texture is. 0 Share this post Link to post
Bobby :D Posted January 14, 2023 Should call the project “Boneless Doom” 4 Share this post Link to post
