Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Havok

Can you sell a Doom II Wad you created commercially?

Recommended Posts

32 minutes ago, Andrea Rovenski said:

Either way, I think the idea of making a bigbox or a book, something physical, is awesome and more wad authors should consider it. I'd happily buy a book or box copy of wads that I love if it meant directly supporting the authors and also getting a cool shelf item. 

I absolutely love the idea of buying a boxed jewel case with a pwad on it. Or hell, couple floppies for the smaller and more oldchool wads! Down the Drain would fit on a single floppy, for example. Apparently there are "magnetic sensitive" stickers one can get to ship them safely world-wide. That would be so cool.. and support the artist

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

I absolutely love the idea of buying a boxed jewel case with a pwad on it. Or hell, couple floppies for the smaller and more oldchool wads! Down the Drain would fit on a single floppy, for example. Apparently there are "magnetic sensitive" stickers one can get to ship them safely world-wide. That would be so cool.. and support the artist

manifesting this energy into reality 🙏

Share this post


Link to post

The people who work on projects like GZDoom are talented developers; you couldn't afford them and you'd get queasy if you were handed the bill from a month of full time development. Their time and skills are quite valuable and they already contribute more "money" than you'd ever raise commercially just by working on it in their spare time. Not to mention the team has been working on it for years, they have their own vision for the project and more right than anyone else to make those decisions. They seem to get on fine without raising funds.

 

 

 

Spoiler

Hobbies in most cases are money pits that never return anything back except fun and enjoyment. Otherwise we'd all be rich.

 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Havok said:

 

I've seen realistic textures using PBR materials. If it can do that then why can't it handle realistic water? In any case, the source code is available for GZDoom so I could potentially add those features myself if I wanted.

it can handle those (and they do in fact all exist, i believe), it's just that you're asking them to implement that as a feature rather than leaving it as an optional wad/pk3 that someone outside the gzdoom devteam maintains. for...some reason.

 

if you wanna fork it and add those yourself, then feel free to

 

2 minutes ago, Sneezy McGlassFace said:

I absolutely love the idea of buying a boxed jewel case with a pwad on it. Or hell, couple floppies for the smaller and more oldchool wads! Down the Drain would fit on a single floppy, for example. Apparently there are "magnetic sensitive" stickers one can get to ship them safely world-wide. That would be so cool.. and support the artist

again, action doom 2 did this. if you want to, then go for it; shit, i'd probably buy a copy from you, cuz that sounds pretty cool lol. just don't try to sell the wad itself :p

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, baja blast rd. said:

 

tQDvI1F.png

 

I don't know what your point is. I'm aware there are fan made enemies for Doom. It's just frustrated me that (correct me if I'm wrong) there's never been better designed versions of the stock enemies in Doom. There's been bad looking 3D versions. I like the voxel mod that makes enemies 3D but I'd like the enemies to look a little more realistic while still keeping the same look. I hate the way the enemies look in Doom Eternal, far too detailed, the classic Doom enemies look better.

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, roadworx said:

also, if by "fine" you mean that they were sued into oblivion by id software back in the 90s, then sure. shovelware disks are totally fine

oh were they? I had no idea! I just know these things were all over the place.

20 hours ago, roadworx said:

standalone games made using gzdoom don't use assets from doom though, that's the thing. they use their own assets, made by the developers behind the game

If you make a pwad with nothing but lines, relying on the iwad assets, that still wouldn't be okay, or would it? I'm wondering this because the freedoom iwads are explicitly made to be free of licensing restrictions. What if you say the pwad is targeting freedoom, which is functionally identical?

But I've also heard (sorry, I'm terrible with sources and specifics) that there are some legal issues with freedoom itself.

 

edit:

  1. if you rely on anything else than the doom engine code, you're in trouble for trying to sell it.
  2. relying on freedoom assets is fine, as long as you include the license.  https://www.moddb.com/games/freedoom/features/freedoom-faq
  3. ideally, get bespoke assets made for the project.
Edited by Sneezy McGlassFace

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Lucius Wooding said:

The people who work on projects like GZDoom are talented developers; you couldn't afford them and you'd get queasy if you were handed the bill from a month of full time development. Their time and skills are quite valuable and they already contribute more "money" than you'd ever raise commercially just by working on it in their spare time. Not to mention the team has been working on it for years, they have their own vision for the project and more right than anyone else to make those decisions. They seem to get on fine without raising funds.

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Hobbies in most cases are money pits that never return anything back except fun and enjoyment. Otherwise we'd all be rich.

 

 

Because they're coders and I'm not. Hence why I would use the money to pay someone to develop a particular feature that I'm looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Havok said:

I don't know what your point is

You said monster texture. What you meant are sprites. Textures are on walls, sprites are on objects like monsters and decorations. The hell knight has a door texture on it, that's the joke.

Share this post


Link to post
42 minutes ago, Havok said:

What I was thinking was I would build a reputation making several well received WADs for free and then I would release my commercial game. 

Make the well-received WADs first and then you can start talking commercial projects, since we'll actually know what you're capable of and be able to decide whether or not to sacrifice our time following your vision instead of our own.

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, roadworx said:

it can handle those (and they do in fact all exist, i believe), it's just that you're asking them to implement that as a feature rather than leaving it as an optional wad/pk3 that someone outside the gzdoom devteam maintains. for...some reason.

 

if you wanna fork it and add those yourself, then feel free to

 

again, action doom 2 did this. if you want to, then go for it; shit, i'd probably buy a copy from you, cuz that sounds pretty cool lol. just don't try to sell the wad itself :p

 

Do you have a link to a realistic water/nuclear waste or lava texture that you can swim in please? I've never seen one before.

 

It looks like Action Doom 2 used exclusively their own textures though.

Share this post


Link to post

 

49 minutes ago, Gothic said:

Unless your name is John Romero, no.

Interestingly, I don't think even the great JR could do this. I interpreted the Sigil strategy as avoiding the issue by releasing a free WAD whilst monetising off of the other collateral (merchandise, boxes sets and music).

 

Agree with @Andrea Rovenski - if making money is an important factor in your decision then there are better ways to achieve this. Earning money will be tough in a highly competitive market with so much amazing free content from so many highly talented and dedicated creators.

 

All the best with whatever direction you take.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Havok said:

It looks like Action Doom 2 used exclusively their own textures though.

yes, it did. however, you can still sell a physical copy of the wad as long as you're giving the wad itself away for free (which is what action doom 2 did), because then what you'd be selling is a physical item and not a wad. which is fine, nobody would have a problem with that; it's essentially selling merchandise for the wad. the problem arises when you sell the wad itself, which is what you're wanting to do, isn't it?

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, Havok said:

Do you have a link to a realistic water/nuclear waste or lava texture that you can swim in please? I've never seen one before.

 

This is an honest question...if people want hyper-realistic liquids, why do they want them in a game whose geometry is far removed from reality and has enemies that are 2-dimensional by default (which is equally unrealistic)? If that's what you want, why not make something in Unity or Unreal or whathaveyou?

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Havok said:

 

Because they're coders and I'm not. Hence why I would use the money to pay someone to develop a particular feature that I'm looking for.

I've made this point before in similar arguments; it's easier to just learn how to do it yourself than to try and convince someone to do it for you, unless you provide more of a starting point than just an idea. 

 

-It's actually really cool and rewarding to learn new skills, especially since you're clearly interested in games. And although there's no way to dumb a lot of the process down, if you apply yourself you don't need to be a genius or have a math background to pick up a good deal of it. 

 

-It would take a lot of money to pay programmers. Good programmers often don't need to work more than a few months out of the year,  and yet still make good money because their skills are indispensable just like elite athletes and artists. To misquote Biggie Smalls, you can't replace em, you must chase em. So as a result they often can work on their own terms and refuse offers they don't care to take. Money alone isn't the best motivator for some of these weirdos.

 

-Remember, you want this stuff made but they don't. To motivate others to take your vision over their own is a tough ask, especially when they've already done 100% of the work themselves.

 

-If you're cool to the devs, and work halfway to your goal, very often they'll be willing to help you learn needed skills and explain things about the existing code and not charge money for this legitimately valuable favor. "Show me how to do this" has a much different tone than "Do this for me".

 

-If nothing else, even if you fail to learn, you'll gain a great appreciation for the skills and hard work put into this community.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, dasho said:

 

This is an honest question...if people want hyper-realistic liquids, why do they want them in a game whose geometry is far removed from reality and has enemies that are 2-dimensional by default (which is equally unrealistic)? If that's what you want, why not make something in Unity or Unreal or whathaveyou?

 

I like the art style of everything in Doom apart from the water for example which doesn't really look anything like water. It looks really bad. I don't think having realistic liquids would spoil the art style of everything else.

Share this post


Link to post

Legally, making a wad would be something like making an entirely new from scratch audio for a movie, like a parody dub (That isn't actually a translation or anything). Doom.wad would be the original movie that your customers would already own, possibly legally. The executable is like media player, free and open source.

 

But who would pay for it?

Share this post


Link to post

I think that if you make a good pwad and allow people to contribute a voluntary amount (as many itchio projects do), you might make some money. Not a salary, of course (after all, we're not that many around here), but I would at least be willing to reward creative people for their efforts, like any other kind of artist. And if those who buy the paid version get an extra, that would be great :)

Share this post


Link to post

I think it's a great idea Havok. You should do it. I'll buy it. Just make sure you put a single purple pixel in all the artwork first to avoid copyright issues.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Havok said:

The reason I ask is that the Gloome Source Port seemed to suggest you could sell a WAD you made using the original Doom II textures. 

 

A video game developer who published their own game (nothing to do with Doom) said that under copyright law, in video games if you change a texture even very slightly then you're aren't breaking copyright. Haven't the original Doom 2 textures been upgraded with high resolution textures in GZDoom or is there some other high resolution texture pack that can be commerically used? And would that count as changed textures?

 

No, as you can't upscale Mario and say you changed him enough.
Make everything new.

 

Here two Examples of Games being sold using some Source Port of the Doom Engine:

 

https://www.gog.com/de/game/hedon

 

https://www.gog.com/de/game/rekkr_sunken_land

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Havok said:

It's just frustrated me that (correct me if I'm wrong) there's never been better designed versions of the stock enemies in Doom.

Well I mean, "If it ain't broke..."

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, ImproversGaming said:

Interestingly, I don't think even the great JR could do this. I interpreted the Sigil strategy as avoiding the issue by releasing a free WAD whilst monetising off of the other collateral (merchandise, boxes sets and music).

 

This is correct. He was selling the box and other associated materials. The WAD was free, as it was available for a free download without the material.

 

As others have said, if you try sell a WAD containing original resources, modified or no, and the relevant people find out you will get in trouble. Personally, I have no interest in paying for a WAD when there's more high quality WADs out there than I could conceivably play in my lifetime. I suspect I am in the majority on this opinion.

 

If you were to make a physical copy with box art etc, essentially pulling a Romero as detailed above, you might net a few sales from people who like that kind of thing. But a year's salary? Not a chance.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Mr Masker said:

Well I mean, "If it ain't broke..."

 

Well, of course. That's why he's asking for new features that make Doom better while also keeping it exactly the same!

Share this post


Link to post
35 minutes ago, Scypek2 said:

 

Well, of course. That's why he's asking for new features that make Doom better while also keeping it exactly the same!

 

Freedoom :>

Share this post


Link to post

I'm pretty sure you can sell a wad along as it did not come packaged with any of the commercial assets. 

 

The bigger issue is to do with are people willing to buy it, which is probably going to be no.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think it'd be impossible to earn a bit of money if you were a Gazebo tier mapper relentlessly hyping a large crowd with a megawad, with screenshots and short videos, a gameplay demo featuring a map or two, for a few years while building it. Especially if you had an ability to make good (or entertaining, captivating) youtube videos and reach a wider audience. If I were a fundamentally different person I could make a lifestyle channel about Doom mapping and use every storytelling method available to talk about my megawad, show how it's done, do mapping livestreams, invite high-profile gamers to test some of my maps, all the bullshit you can think. I don't think it'd be impossible to sell 1000 copies of a $30 wad. Maybe even 2000, 5000. Maybe even 10k. If I'm not mistaken some people are earning six figures with excel templates and stuff like that.

 

A megawad as a retirement fund... Like the idea of that. Heh.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×