Can you sell a Doom II Wad you created commercially?

[Havok]

20 hours ago, Edward850 said:

I've decided to write a complete Q&A about this topic, with every possible question you could have answered with my professional insight. This isn't legal advice, but it's the next best thing you could get in this thread. As a note I'm not offering any privileged information, or know of any regarding Doom. Any of the information provided can be applied to just about any game, especially games with GPL code.

 

As with anything, if you are selling a game or game-adjacent no matter what it is from or for, always consult a lawyer. There are no exceptions to this rule. If you do not do this and there turns out to be a legal issue with what you're doing after money has been exchanged, you are going to be in for a really bad time!

 

"I want to sell a Doom wad, mod or original game made in its engine. What can I sell definitively?"

You are allowed to sell a completely original work made out of the Doom GPL source code release. You are not allowed to sell any of Doom's data assets (sounds, music, graphics, maps, etc) as these are not covered by GPL. You must include the source code with your game as per the rules of GPL. Modifying an asset does not remove its copyright under most stipulations. You also cannot include Doom (that being the name, imagery and such) in the marketing or in any aspect of the game. The only thing you have is the code and absolutely nothing more.

 

"Can I sell a Doom map/mod that requires Doom to run, even if it doesn't contain copyrighted assets?"

Possibly not. This runs afoul of id Software's intellectual property rights, as while modding the content is fair use, you haven't been given permission to use their property as a platform to sell your own work. This is a bit like trying to sell fan fiction in a way. Besides, the use of Doom, its name and its imagery in a for-profit context is absolutely a copyright and/or trademark violation, so even if you could somehow sell the wad you are going to have significant trouble trying to market it.

 

"Weren't there compilation discs of Doom maps sold in stores?"

Yes, and as best anyone can guess they were unlicensed. The catch with these is it was very difficult for id Software to litigate such things at the time, and it's up for debate as to what they were selling. It could be argued they were selling the disc itself as a convenience, not the actual work on the disc, as these were usually compilations of works from an FTP when legitimately the Internet was harder to access (so trying this now would be beyond pointless). They were also very careful not to say the word Doom or show any material from Doom anywhere on the packaging.

 

"Hasn't John Romero sold Doom mods?"

Only in a very indirect sense. Sigil sold a special edition soundtrack but the wad was free, and One Humanity was a charity event. There's every possibility as well that Romero got these cleared, Bethesda obviously know what he's up to give Sigil's presence as an add-on for the official ports.

 

"Could I just simply ask id Software if I could sell it?"

Physically nothing is stopping you from asking. However there's nothing simple about it, that would be an involved business deal. As such please don't go pestering game studios about this sort of thing.

 

"What if the map/mod was for another engine related game?"

Same rules different people. Heretic and Hexen are owned by Activision (at the time of me writing this, could be Microsoft real soon). Strife is owned by Nightdive.

 

"Can I include the DOS executable from Doom with my game?"

No. Doom's GPL code only applies to the Linux Doom 1.10 release. It does not retroactively apply to the DOS 1.9 release, which also contains the licensed sound API DMX which you are not allowed to redistribute.

 

"What platforms can I sell my Doom engine game on?"

Steam, GOG, Itch.io, and any other distribution platform that allows for the distribution of GPL software. Note that the APIs used for Steam and GOG Galaxy aren't compatible with GPL, so you can sell on these platforms but can't use their special features.

 

"Can I sell my Doom engine game on consoles?"

Unlikely or no, depending. The SDKs for consoles seem to be incompatible with GPLv2 but I have not verified this myself. Normally an OS exception covers linking, but the implication is the OS SDK is still included for compiling where as the console SDKs are under strict NDA and can't be included at all in a source release. Talk to a lawyer.

However GPLv3 is absolutely incompatible due to the TiVo clause preventing secure platform distribution (if you can't compile the source for that platform as a third party, it's unelligible). Most source ports are GPLv3, such as GZDoom.

 

"Doom and Strife are on consoles with new ports, doesn't that violate GPL?"

Id Software are not beholden to GPL restrictions of their own code, given they own the copyright for it, and thus can continue to relicense it however they wish. The only thing they can't do is use other people's code from GPL ports without getting the copyright exempted from the owners. (GPLing code does not give up the copyright to that code, and thus you can keep relicensing it.)

 

Strife: Veteran Edition's source code has permissions granted (with conditions) to allow for its release on closed platforms. This was easier to accomplish given the small number of contributors to its reverse engineering project.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info. 

[Havok]

On 2/3/2023 at 8:16 PM, Redneckerz said:

So @Havok you are an Ideas Guy with some mapping experience. Is this a correct assessment?

 

Pretty much. I'm sure I could learn coding and other stuff but I doubt my skills in that would get to a high level.

[Fluuschoen]

On 2/3/2023 at 6:29 PM, Stabbey said:

No, you cannot sell a Doom 2 WAD. The guy(s) who made "The Lost Episodes of Doom" got away with it because they were selling the Strategy Guide for the "free" WAD which came bundled with it.

 

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oh, you're a funny guy!

 

It's the year 2023. Why would someone pay to play your WAD file when there are literally hundreds of thousands of free ones out there already?

 

Maybe because it's THAT good, but I highly doubt the set would end up like that, when we have AUGER;ZENITH, Kneed-deep in KDiZD, Ancient Aliens, Valiant, Fractured Worlds and such for completely free.

[Redneckerz]

On 2/5/2023 at 8:03 AM, Havok said:

Pretty much. I'm sure I could learn coding and other stuff but I doubt my skills in that would get to a high level.

Lets compare this to your OP:

On 2/3/2023 at 6:02 PM, Havok said:

I'm not expecting to get rich but it would be cool if I could make at least a year's salary.

 

Expectations vs reality. It would be cool if i could make atleast a year's salary, but in order to be cool, i need to learn coding and other stuff.

 

Voila OP, you solved your own mystery. 

 

Want to have a chance at success? Then work for it. Don't expect anyone else to just pre-fab everything you encounter in life for you.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

On 2/5/2023 at 2:03 AM, Havok said:

Pretty much. I'm sure I could learn coding and other stuff but I doubt my skills in that would get to a high level.

Do you have any maps you could show us?

[Fluuschoen]

2 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

Want to have a chance at success? Then work for it. Don't expect anyone else to just pre-fab everything you encounter in life for you.

The Antidote hath spoken.

[,,,]

On 2/4/2023 at 10:15 AM, Edward850 said:

"Can I sell my Doom engine game on consoles?"

Unlikely or no, depending. The SDKs for consoles seem to be incompatible with GPLv2 but I have not verified this myself. Normally an OS exception covers linking, but the implication is the OS SDK is still included for compiling where as the console SDKs are under strict NDA and can't be included at all in a source release. Talk to a lawyer.

However GPLv3 is absolutely incompatible due to the TiVo clause preventing secure platform distribution (if you can't compile the source for that platform as a third party, it's unelligible). Most source ports are GPLv3, such as GZDoom.

 

 

 

 

Homebrew can easily be installed on the Xbox One and the Xbox Series without modifications, and there is a thriving homebrew scene. Theoretically wouldn't it be possible to abide by GPLv3 on these platforms by releasing the source code alongside it, as it would be possible to compile for unmodified systems?

[Edward850]

 

35 minutes ago, Individualised said:

Homebrew can easily be installed on the Xbox One and the Xbox Series without modifications, and there is a thriving homebrew scene. Theoretically wouldn't it be possible to abide by GPLv3 on these platforms by releasing the source code alongside it, as it would be possible to compile for unmodified systems?

Nope. Games on Xbox use GDKX which isn't public, while homebrew development uses UWP as it's specifically using the SRA mode of the app store. You cannot publish a game on Xbox as an SRA app.

 

(SRA meaning Shared Resource Access, which only has access to 1-2 GB RAM and 2 CPU cores. Xbox games run using ERA meaning Exclusive Resource Access, which has access to the dedicated CPU and RAM of the rest of the system.)