What was your weakest skill in Doom and how did you improve?

[baja blast rd.]

44 minutes ago, Midnight_00 said:

Hitting enemies with the rocket launcher, in particular revenants and arch viles. The horizontal autoaim makes hitting moving targets fundamentally different to in other FPS games which I've been playing more lately (like Quake and Half Life, which has a guided rocket launcher). In the past I often either ignored the RL in favour of other weapons, but I've been trying to get better with it and I originally found it pretty frustrating. I'm still not even sure if it's possible to aim and hit moving revenants and viles consistently, but I at least feel like I'm getting better at it and it felels to me like it depends on controlling the direction of the autoaim. Or maybe I'm entirely wrong and there's only so much you can do.

The most useful "trick" with the skinny monsters vs. RL is that being angled 45 degrees relative to the orthogonal directions is ideal because because the cross-sections involved (monsters and rocket) are at their largest.

 

 

[Midnight_00]

2 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

The most useful "trick" with the skinny monsters vs. RL is that being angled 45 degrees relative to the orthogonal directions is ideal because because the cross-sections involved (monsters and rocket) are at their largest.

 

Wow, that was nice and precise. Thanks for the tip.

[IncompA]

On 3/12/2023 at 2:53 PM, RandoBust said:

Slaughter maps.

 

I solved the problem with IDDQD.

 

Because I hate tedious garbage. 

Easy fix: don't play slaughters.

[Mystic 256]

my weakest skill I think is coming up with good encounters in doom mapping that feel fun and challenging (I want to try to make a slaughter map sometime since I've played a lot of those before)

I'm trying to figure it out, its a very slow learning process

[CBM]

3 hours ago, Mystic 256 said:

my weakest skill I think is coming up with good encounters in doom mapping that feel fun and challenging (I want to try to make a slaughter map sometime since I've played a lot of those before)

I'm trying to figure it out, its a very slow learning process

same plus Im still playing at ITYTD

 

I wish I could find maps that would somehow have various specific difficulties (beyond the regular implementation of difficulties in maps) that would help level up player skill.. like a map I found that taught about level layout and texturing

 

something like... when you can beat this then you are at level 1, when you beat this then you are level 2 etc..

[Sonikkumania]

Mapping, and I still try to improve lol. 

[Astro X]

Getting nukage rhythm right and performing SR50. Also, dodging mancubus fireballs and consistenly two-shotting cybers with the BFG.

[pantheon]

I played the IWADs a ton growing up but took a long break from playing Doom regularly, started again in the last couple years. My weakness coming back and being introduced to modern PWADs was a kind of overconfidence or fixation on "optimizing" certain gameplay aspects like ammo usage that, while easier/fun in IWADs, turned out to be counterproductive in more demanding custom maps. It was like a mental block... surely I know what to do, I've known how to dodge a mancubus longer than some very good players have been alive. Of course you kill the big enemies first, just avoid the weaker ones, or wait for infighting, etc. I think it was actually a baja blast rd. post generally saying it's OK to waste ammo sometimes that made it click and I have gotten much better at just reacting sensibly to things and can clear harder content much more consistently. And when it doesn't work it's easier to see the worthwhile lessons to learn. Who cares if I waste a fifth rocket on an AV? Not dying to chip damage and stupid things feels a lot more badass than doing unimportant things perfectly.     

[RHhe82]

On 3/9/2023 at 6:00 PM, SuperPecanMan said:

I treat blind playthroughs as though the map designer has provided the bare minimum of ammo and every piece of ammo must be used at 100% efficiency.

 

To give an example, every time I run into a cyberdemon and have a BFG, I assume that I MUST two-shot it or I'll end up soft-locked later. This usually results in my death as quite often there just isn't enough room to two-shot a cyberdemon consistently(or I'm just not good enough at dodging, that's possible too).

 

Me too; I get really anxious when I don't manage to two-shot cybers in modern maps, and while I don't think I have ever soft-locked myself, I still assume using more than two blasts is a waste and it's gonna turn against me.

 

Also when mapper provides an early berserk: I just assume that I need to berserk my way through the map or else I'm gonna end up against hordes without ammo. Usually I finish the level with incredible ammo surplus -- and frustration for having punched so many cacodemons and mancubi and loading saves, because on the average I'm not that great tysoner, either.

 

Both skills are slowly getting better, though. Tysoning thru sheer repetition, so much so that even if tyson is not pre-supposed, I think of berserk whenever I see close-range imps, revenants and hell knights, or a lone baron.

 

Consistent two-shotting is something I'm really not good at. For long I thought it was pure random, even when people are saying it's not. Last evening I was watching @David Asaad's tips videos on Youtube and savescumming my way through Summer of 69's final level, the italo-doom prototype, and there is this section where something like 10 cyberdemons teleport in one at a time. I was already low on ammo, so it was evident I needed to two-shot them all if I didn't want to cheat. The video that was playing talked about two-shotting cybies. I had watched it before a couple of times, I basically knew what had to be done, I just could never do it. -- And I still can't, but to my surprise, for the first time, I found myself getting the rhythm right, and managing the two-shots not consistently, but consistently enough to feel it indeed wasn't a random thing. I got the feeling that I had somehow gotten better at Doom since last point of observation.

[RandoBust]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:28 PM, IncompA said:

Easy fix: don't play slaughters.

 

They sometimes rear their ugly heads in map packs. 

[INfront95]

Improve?

[TheDanMarine]

I still die to archviles pretty consistently. I used to have trouble with revenants but I've realized a few things about them: they stun really easy, so the chaingun helps a lot. staying up close and personal makes them more likely to melee attack, which is way easier to dodge. and if I see a revenant in a big open room I need to do everything I can to lure it somewhere with corners! (special shoutout to that one revenant in a circular room in TNT. I once spent five minutes going in a circle before I tried to leave through the door and died) 

 

On 3/15/2023 at 3:08 AM, CBM said:

like a map I found that taught about level layout and texturing

d'you remember what that map was? I could really use something like that, for texturing especially. 

[Helm]

Movement. I got better at movement last summer after intense Sundering, better than I got at doom movement in all the yrs between 1993 and then, in fact. Sunder is a hellish place to train Doom skills. However I recognize that even though my movement isn't totally amateurish anymore this is a bottomless well, I will be working on this skill for as long as I am alive and play doom. I can see better movement now when I watch people's demos and streams, I can parse some of the choices they make. 

Flick shots: sometimes just a show-off thing, sometimes an absolutely necessary skill. Running around a big group of enemies with a RL will involve flick shots if you want to be optimal, as you need to see where you're going, but you need to turn to shoot the rockets at specific targets often. Another skill that you can train for a long time, less essential than movement overall. There is more to the flick shot skillset than that, it connects with other broad areas of 'doom aiming' (which is quite unlike other FPS aiming) where I am working on it. My aim is very mediocre I have found, so working on aiming connects with fixing flicks.

Two-shotting cybers: I just don't have by BFG license yet, in Sunder terms, Haven't made it to those maps legit yet. Of course I need the practice to play nearly anything else with a BFG in it so I went to Rush for a while and that helped. My BFG play is still meh and my two-shots extremely inconsistent but at least I don't get a afraid when I see 2-3 cybers all together anymore.

Revenant hordes: if you don't train this skill, in corridor, in staircase, in winding staircase, going uphill, going downhill, in an open field, with some consistency I suspect you will never naturally develop the necessary skill to deal with this problem when it organically pops up in the more slaughtery end of the spectrum. Dealing with a constant stream of rev rockets / wall usage is a highly involved and specialized minigame inside doom, and there are many doom players that never want to play doom maps that make them play this minigame. 

I have gotten better at dealing with archiviles more aggressively, this is something it would be very hard to learn unless you push yourself. The natural tactic of defence when a vile shows up is ingrained in us like a survival mechanism, deeply tied to the Onset of Horror that was installed at us the first 100 times we got fried. Turns out you gotta bully these guys sometimes, and only a total upgrade on generic doom skills (esp movement) will show the way. If there are any deficiencies in any of the core doom motor skills, arch-viles and revenant clusters probably are the most lethal things in this game. 


Edit: actually one of the most impressive things about watching doom gods stream doom / watch their demos is something really non-apparent unless you're trying to get good too: Single barrel shotgun aiming and economy versus imps and other low tier. Killing imps at middle distance in one shot is a necessary ammo and speed skill! Way harder than it looks, including blockmap woes. hitting things from a 45 degree angle becomes important there as well.

Edited May 12 by Helm

[NuMetalManiak]

Weakest skill: Maintaining psychological stability while playing Doom.

 

How'd I improve: by playing at work during off times, oddly enough.

[D0M0]

Mapping was probably my weakest skill in doom. I felt whenever I made sceneries it never looked organic and it ended up being a huge clump of messy lines. I wanted to start making maps which don’t follow any tetrahedral kind of shape.

 

For this i kinda just watched other people map. I started off with a simple layout and then expanded on that layout. I used a lot of tools to help me get unique shapes but sometimes if it doesn’t look right, i’d construct the curves myself (which takes longer since i consider myself to be quite the perfectionist). That’s all i’m really up to with the whole thing. Maybe it just comes with more practice.
 

 (the award for what is my weakest skill now goes to platforming and I have yet to figure out how to get good at that)

[baja blast rd.]

32 minutes ago, D0M0 said:

(the award for what is my weakest skill now goes to platforming and I have yet to figure out how to get good at that)

 

The main platforming principles are: 

 

- To stop moving, you absolutely don't press the stop key(s) when you land. (Stop key(s) being whatever is the opposite of how you were moving before.)

 

You tap it, like the key is on fire and it will scald your finger if you depress it for more than a quarter of a second or something. (Some people might think of that as semantic nitpicking, but it's not because that distinction is the whole point lol.) 

 

This negates your momentum instantly and avoids that common "dance" people do where they try to stop and then go the other way, then have to move forward again to correct and then often fall. That should never happen.

 

Tbh this is like 80% of it already.  

 

 

(The final one was not meant to be too low to properly see :P)

 

- Platforming punishes gullibility. When you see 30-40 individual platforms, you should not assume you have to handle each one by one, starting and stopping on each one. It's important to look for continuous 'chains' where you can traverse multiple platforms in one simple motion, and skips where you can bypass some. "How can I make this as easy as possible?" is a good question to ask. (Having to do each platform on its own happens sometimes, but there are almost always shortcuts.)

 

- "Just run forward" is the logical extension of that and certain stretches are easier in aggregate if you simply keep running and make whatever mouse movements are needed to keep going. 

 

Case in point, I didn't actually design thinking of this, but this maneuver is really easy.

 

 

(Going from the start to the FIREBLU stick is doable too but would require practice for consistency.)

 

- A bit more advanced: Strafe toggle + mousemove (most players don't use vertical mouse sensitivity) can be good for making tiny adjustments in your position. 

 

- A bit more advanced: For small adjustments, automap is helpful.

 

These, especially in concert, are good for platforming stretches where you'd ideally land on a good portion of a stilt to make the next jump easier. 

 

 

Frog and Toad has some good platforming-exclusive maps and practicing those can be helpful.

[D0M0]

4 hours ago, baja blast rd. said:

Frog and Toad has some good platforming-exclusive maps and practicing those can be helpful.

 

Tysm for this, this whole response has been super helpful!

 

I've found that i've always been trying to reverse my momentum when platforming by holding the "stop keys", which is probably 75% of the reason why I end up falling off the platform. I didn't realise doom's movement worked like that where you could just instantly stop movement just by tapping. Don't know how I haven't found out about this after all the years i've been playing classic doom.

And i will give that wad a go for further practice, i believe I have heard of it somewhere before (probably because of the platforming maps being notorious). 

 

Once again, thanks for this advice!

[TheSlipgateStudios]

My biggest problem to solve right now is...don't die lmao. Hope to get better at this.

[Shakariki Heisenberg]

not getting hit my homing revenant rockets in a tight room, solved this skill issue by doing sv_cheats true if on nightmare then press iddqd and sometimes idfa 

[Cinnamon]

Fisting.

 

Otherwise the only thing that I can think of specifically is a bit hard to describe, but. Juggling attention between multiple directions.

 

I improve on this by accidentally playing more WADs that place Cybies fucking everywhere.

[Kwisior]

My weakest skill used to be patience. I naturally improved by beating more WADs saveless.