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EllipsusD

Land of the free?

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It's called freedom, we're suppose to wear anything we want. My brother said that to me a few seconds ago.

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Scuba Steve said:

There's obviously more to this story than the article tells.

I tend to agree, although some people in the US are making some disturbing decisions lately. I read something about a blacklist for actors today, making it impossible for some actors to work. They said they were against George Bush's plans for Iraq. Some actorsguild however, rejected the idea of a blacklist, thank Satan.

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WTF?!

ALBANY, N.Y. - A man was charged with trespassing in a mall after he refused to take off a T-shirt that said "Peace on Earth" and "Give peace a chance."

And the fact that they arrested these guys for wearing these shirts just confirms that this nation is going to hell in a handbasket.

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i saw a girl at my college with a large sticker saying "fuck bush" i said hell yea. also a girl was passing out bands that say "no war iraq" at school today.

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There's no way, even in the 'evil' America everyone sees, that this would happen without some other reason. I tend to think that this shirt WAS a peace shirt, but with possible offensive imagery and/or the way the message was displyed could've been interpreted offensively. Out of respect for other patrons, the man may have been asked to remove the shirt, and resisted. Perhaps someone complained to security, and being their job, had to ask the man to remove it. Being a mall, if the man causes a scene they do have the right to throw him out. I'm sure they asked nicely for the man to remove/turn inside out, before hauling him off, so somewhere inbetween something led them to taking drastic measures.

Also, according to the article, police simply responded to the security complaint and followed orders according to tresspassing, they cared not about his shirt. Also at the very bottom, it tells of a previous incident with 20 some people protesting in the mall with similar shirts. No arrests made that time. I'm not aware of the events of that rally, but I'm guessing that due to those events security was trying to keep another such incident from happening and approached the man in a preventative manner. Whether the man did/didn't intend it to be antagonistic I don't know.

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Actually, it all started with a cop telling them to remove their shirts (and the rest of their clothes) because he felt inclined to rape them. Yet the two people unfortunately had some dignity and offered a measure of resistance. Promptly the cop talked to his friend at one of the mall's stores and they agreed to kick the offenders off the premises for their impertinence (rape refusal), alleging that these people were using shirts with unacceptable political content (since the present social and political state of the nation allows for this possibility.)

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The arrest was due to the fact that they would not leave when asked to. It was not, it itself, due to the shirt. However, I'm not so sure that the shirt had something on it that would really justify it being such a big deal. I've talked to a few people who are incedibly adamant about the US going to war, and wish death upon anyone who doesn't follow those views. Perhaps the guard who asked them to remove their shirts was like that, or perhaps someone who was like that made a complaint. And if the shirt was problematic because of the previous protest (which ended peacefully, I might add), there is no indication that the two men who were wearing the shirts were told anything of the sort.

It was foolish of the mall representatives not to comment on this. If there was a justified reason for this happening, then it would save a lot of grief for them to come out and state that reason. At this point it seems that this is just a censorship of a person's political opinion by someone who didn't agree with it. Hopefully there was a reason, and we'll all get to find out about it, but if not, then I'm almost to the point of not wanting anything to do with this country.

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Hmm, Scuba Steve, your very own post negates your initial claim. I mean, first you say that there must be another reason behind the incident, and then you paraphrase the article to say that they were kicked out for not removing their shirts because they were associated with recent protest activities in the premises.

Commercial establishments are, basically, providing a public service, no matter how "private" the enterprises involved are. In a region, province, or state where such establishments can prosecute you for something like the type of shirt you wear because of some private reglamentation, any sane individual might as well move elsewhere and leave the area or else start or join some movement or association to change the situation.

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ZarcyB said:

MASS EXODUS TO SCOTLAND!!!!!!!!

Heh. Never!

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It was not "one cop" it was the security guards of the mall, which are privately employed. They called the cops afterward. The mall itself seems to have the internal reglamentation to disallow the use of anti-war shirts and stuff, or else someone with influence in the mall spontaneously gave the order to the guards (who do not do whatever they want.)

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I just type stuff untill I make sense.

I think what I was trying to get at is that, I haven't read any comments from the security, police or the mall, so I'm not sure what to believe. I just find it too hard to believe that securty had a man arrested for a peace shirt, for the sole reson that it was a peace shirt.

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Question the motives of the security guards, not the cops. get your blame straight.

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ZarcyB said:

MASS EXODUS TO SCOTLAND!!!!!!!!

But, I am not immortal.

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Demons Hand said:

Some one needs a friend.


Yup, I agree with you, Demons Hand.

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Officer Dumbass said:

"We don't care what they have on their shirts, but they were asked to leave the property, and it's private property."

Great. So they've got private property. WTF? It's not a matter of asking them to leave, but WHY they asked them to leave.

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Demons Hand said:

Why would I want to do that?Im just going to go back to the pit of fire ware I came froum.


Pit of fire ware?

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The article says:
Monday's arrest came less than three months after about 20 peace activists wearing similar T-shirts were told to leave by mall security and police. There were no arrests.

Most likely, the establishment owners were afraid of having another incident like this. Thats why the man was asked to leave.

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myk said:

Hmm, Scuba Steve, your very own post negates your initial claim. I mean, first you say that there must be another reason behind the incident, and then you paraphrase the article to say that they were kicked out for not removing their shirts because they were associated with recent protest activities in the premises.


My my my my, a little judgemental aren't we?

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This is how it was explained to me when I was on a jury panel for a criminal trespassing trial. If the owner of private property, or an appointed representative (the security guard) makes it clear to a person that he is not allowed on that private property, then that person must leave and not return, or else he is trespassing. The owner (or representative) is not legally required to have any reason for wishing the person to leave.

The man was arrested for trespassing, not for the t-shirt. This whole thing is going to be a big PR nightmare for that mall.

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