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sargebaldy

linedef base in deepsea?

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is there any way you can use deepsea with a linedef base (not be forced to draw full sectors)?

(not that i'd plan on using deepsea even if it did)

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Just double left click on the map in most editing modes (not things) and you're into "putting down vertexes and lines" mode.

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Bah. Linedef base is why I don't use DeepSea. I just never was a fan of drawing a bunch of linedefs and praying they hook up...

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Heh, my copy of DeePsea has prefab tools as well as line drawing...you did not ever give them a try?

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Yeah, I tried then. But I also don't like the multiple modes. In WadAuthor you get all modes at once, and only use filters when you want to. All you do is create sectors and join vertices. That's it.

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netnomad312 said:

Bah. Linedef base is why I don't use DeepSea. I just never was a fan of drawing a bunch of linedefs and praying they hook up...

The reason I commented about this is that I don't think anyone (especially newer members) is being done a favor by receiving "partial" information. This comment is "partial" in two ways. First, DeePsea has prefabs just like WA and your comment makes it seem otherwise. Second, there is no "praying" done to make lines hook up....a right mouse click does it.

Now, if you want to compare SELECT functions, in a way you have a point. But, again people will be misled. If you want DeePsea to act like WA so that you can "select all" or select anything by drawing a box, you need to use the LEFT mouse button to draw a box, that's all. It makes no difference what filter (vertex, line, sector, thing) is active in DeePsea, the box select mode works like no filter.

I'm sure that most WA users will agree that the filters are very useful. Without them it's too easy to select things you don't mean to and sometimes not possible to select an odd-shaped sector. I virtually never work with WA without a filter active.

This is not meant to be a debate about which editor to use...I don't care what editor anyone else uses but I will try to complete missing information when I see it so that no one is accidentally misled.

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netnomad312 said:

Bah. Linedef base is why I don't use DeepSea. I just never was a fan of drawing a bunch of linedefs and praying they hook up...


deepsea is NOT linedef-based, it's sector-based. personally i prefer vector-based myself, but meh.

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Isn't DCK linedef based? IMO best ever at it too. :)

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sargebaldy said:

deepsea is NOT linedef-based, it's sector-based. personally i prefer vector-based myself, but meh.

Oh, was your original question asking if you could just draw a single line with DeePsea, not being forced to complete or close the sector? The answer is yes.
You double-left click to start drawing lines, left click for the starting vertex, move mouse, left click again for the second vertex and to form the line, then keep the cursor there over the second vertex. Right click and you'll get a menu allowing you several choices of properties for the single line.

Using WA, if I want a single line, I just select a line, copy, paste where I want the new line. Then, move the vertices as needed. A bit slower than the DeePsea method but not bad.

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sargebaldy said:

deepsea is NOT linedef-based, it's sector-based. personally i prefer vector-based myself, but meh.

Like Biffy said. DeePsea is indeed "vector-based" or if you used prefabs, PREFAB based. I prefer the term PREFAB over "sector based" since that more precisely describes the difference.

Many editors have both a version of line/vector/vertex drawing -and- PREFABS. DCK, DEU/DETH, DMAPEDIT, DOOMCAD the most common ones. Maybe EDMAP too (just checked it does). DeePsea PREFABS are not the same as WA though. First off, they are interactive and "float" over the level where you can size and position them BEFORE they get committed. A significant difference. I'm now adding the same feature to the Import Prefab tool - currently called "Open Clipboard Pwad" - a poor name choice on my part:)

You can select objects in DeePsea either by rubber banding a select box -or- just clicking on the objects to select one after the other. Objects selected depend on editing mode (another reason "any mode" see next is not that useful). If in sector mode, it's always sectors - Sector shape is never an issue.

I'm not at home, so I can't verify if the "filter" selection in DeePsea restricts the rubber band, but there is a filter in DeePsea - press K. I never run with a filter (no benefit to my style of editing), nor has anyone commented about selecting with the filter. Maybe it already does this? In any event, if someone really did ask for that it's trivial to add - since I don't expect everyone to do what I do.

[Edit] Ok back home and I see we have some confusion over terms. What WA calls "filter" (a misnomer really) is automatically the way DeePsea works. In Things mode all you can edit/select are things, in Linedef mode just Linedefs, in Sector mode just sectors and in Vertex mode just vertices. The confusion might be that DeePsea can automatically convert selected objects from Sectors to Linedefs and from Linedefs to Vertices - but otherwise no different than WA in that only those object types are selected. The "K filter" I was talking about is a filter to limit the type of things displayed. And this does limit Thing objects to the filter selected. IOW, this is really a filter.[/Edit]

"Any Mode" editing is also available in DeePsea - you have to enable it. Why? Problem is that this type of mode is tedious/imprecise to use just as it is in WA. Even without "any mode", you can always drag a vertex or thing by putting the cursor right on top and pressing the right button to drag. Although pressing 1 key to switch modes is almost always faster, since it's much faster to focus on the object - assuming you are a quick level designer and don't have time to waste loitering:)

What's most interesting of all, is that Baldy did the opposite of most WA users - he used just the PREFABS, not realizing that vector line drawing was also there. All goes back to my reoccuring theme - once a person learns one editor, they look for the "old" editor features in the wrong places and will totally miss how another editor works. Even though it's all documented:)

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uhh deep, it's not considered "vertice-based" unless you can draw vertices independent of linedefs. although i do now see how it can be both linedef or sector based.

and for the record i'm NOT a WA user, i've been using doomcad happily for the last three decades

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sargebaldy said:
uhh deep, it's not considered "vertice-based" unless you can draw vertices independent of linedefs. although i do now see how it can be both linedef or sector based.

Don't recall me saying anything about "vertice-based":) However, that's really an awkward (never made sense to me) way of "drawing". Why? Because you can't have a vertex all by itself in the level. The end result is just MORE steps to get to a "vector-based" drawing system - think about it.

and for the record i'm NOT a WA user, i've been using doomcad happily for the last three decades

Poor wording on my part. I wasn't really saying you were - just that WA users so far have always said the opposite thing you did - for actually the same reason - you just happened to use a different set of tools to start with and thought that was the way it worked.

IIRC, DOOMCAD picked up that vertex thing from DEU. It's easier to code, but still doesn't make sense:) DOOMCAD won't work in XP though - for some odd reason on of the VBX files refuses to be recognized.

Another popular misleading statement is that "vertex" editors give you more precise control. Absolutely not true. Any editor that let's one drag vertices/edit reference values gives exactly the same "precision". For example, WA (just to talk about something different<g>) is every bit as precise. Substitute "tedious" for "precise" in those posts and I'll agree - [smiley]

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deep said:

DeePsea is indeed "vector-based"


oh i read that wrong

anyway, i know doomcad doesn't run in xp, because i USE xp. some problem with the knife vb stuff it uses. but i'm dedicated enough to the editor i have a virtual machine with 98 on it just to run it properly.

and personally i like drawing my vertices out, it lets me design how i want a room before i ever even start a sector

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