Ravendesk Posted August 17, 2023 6 hours ago, Steve D said: I want Cacos to bully the player into running away in search of more ammo/better weapons -- and get themselves in more trouble as a result -- and a little ammo starvation works. I honestly think this idea worked perfectly at the start, I had to ignore cacos and search for an RL. Then when I ran out of rockets I was forced to go to the next area where plasma is. So far so good. However, that next area did not provide nearly enough rockets to deal with the stuff I left behind (and the new area in addition), so it felt like there was absolutely no reward for all that running around and in the end it would have been easier to just SG the starting cacos (which is what I wanted to avoid in first place). Which led me to believe at that time that it was intended for player to shotgun them. 2 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) When I play/played E4M2 the start is pretty frantic but by the time I get the RL I'm able to deal with all the cacos without too much shotgunning, and stabilize before I need to platform over the blood pools. From there it's a lot easier to take it at your own pace, doubly so if you get the BFG. Things get chaotic when you actually go to pick up the plasma gun, but unless you get spooked getting the PG makes it easy to carve your way out and you have tons of shells to pick things off. I should restate that I have no problem with the map as-is. Also I guess I've turned into a pretty patient/safety-oriented player; in my E2M9 play I killed a baron with a pistol. I'm not thrilled with Cannonball's map exit idea, but if you like it I think you should make the secret door in the 3-cyber room a little more obvious. It's easy to spot if you know what to look for, but for a first-time play you get a little preoccupied with the sudden ambush. Speaking of which, it's very easy to deal with the cyberdemons by hanging out on the blood floor in some places. Dunno if that was intentional, but if not, that is a good place for lava... edit: One place it could to with some more resistance is the BFG secret: It makes the map so much easier if you find it early, throwing in an actual challenge to fight for it doesn't seem amiss. 2nd edit: The version of E4M2 posted yesterday still throws warnings about missing textures METALRAI and WINDOW3A. Edited August 17, 2023 by plums 2 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted August 18, 2023 Rightio, here is my update to E4M7. First half of the map is unchanged, while the red key fight has more nasties down in the blood and I've halved the arena for the final fight, making it hard to find safe zones. The map is still easier than the majority of E4, but it is what it is—not much I could do beyond ripping out its guts or just deleting all the health on the map. At least now it has a chance at killing players. 5 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, plums said: Speaking of which, it's very easy to deal with the cyberdemons by hanging out on the blood floor in some places. Dunno if that was intentional, but if not, that is a good place for lava... edit: One place it could to with some more resistance is the BFG secret: It makes the map so much easier if you find it early, throwing in an actual challenge to fight for it doesn't seem amiss. 2nd edit: The version of E4M2 posted yesterday still throws warnings about missing textures METALRAI and WINDOW3A. I agree with both the suggestions here, damaging lava will prevent this method of cheesing the fight (to some degree), also giving the BFG secret its own fight would definitely add more to the map. PS @Steve D - Use this quick hotfix as the base for further changes (I have removed those texture issues that were mentioned above) - https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/revuman1nbchojz8x4cd9/E4M2CBFIX.wad?rlkey=bvvsrmsbyuhaxq0r8jlk24p8f&dl=0 Edited August 18, 2023 by cannonball 0 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said: Rightio, here is my update to E4M7. First half of the map is unchanged, while the red key fight has more nasties down in the blood and I've halved the arena for the final fight, making it hard to find safe zones. The map is still easier than the majority of E4, but it is what it is—not much I could do beyond ripping out its guts or just deleting all the health on the map. At least now it has a chance at killing players. I think that works a lot better, the two big fights feel like fights instead of demon safaris. As a side effect the cybers in the last fight are more prone to gathering up clusters of infighters but I think that's fine. It's also pretty easy to hang out on the spiderdemon platforms and kill things/wait for infighting, and especially BFG the cybers, but that's probably just how it's going to be -- at least this time I was incentivized to use that at a strategy instead of just wandering around taking potshots at things. If you really wanted to up the nastiness factor you could have the floor there damaging though. Edited August 18, 2023 by plums 2 Share this post Link to post
erzboesewicht Posted August 18, 2023 Finally, my E4 comments (RC2, UV, pistol starts, saves). Didn't play the modified E4M7. Spoiler E4M1: Hell Beneath - _Bruce_ - The easiest map so far, I think, at most on par with E1M1, albeit the start killed me once due to an imp scratching me from behind I oversaw. Like in E1M1 (but from a different author) it's the "slightly different, more organic take on a Doom staple", in this case the E4 wood, that makes the map feel original. One point: I think the free blue armor is a bit overkill, a green one would be sufficient, there wasn't the slightest amount of danger once I got that goodie. Anyway 9/10. E4M2: Perfect Hatred - Steve Duff (SteveD). Close in spirit to the original E4, but harder due to the presence of several cyberdemons in one area. Many parts of it however were really classic Doom fun that I enjoyed so much in E1 and E2 of UDINO. Many devious traps which require fast reactions. Light criticism: The secret BFG "fight" was a bit easy. And the secret exit was very difficult to find, the misalignment or light difference of the texture is barely visible (quite a "wallhump" secret). 8/10. E4M3: Sever the Wicked - Darryl Steffan (dobu gabu maru) - Interesting mix of hypo-pacifist play (in the starting third you only get very limited bullets) and chainsaw-centric (faithful to the title!) Tyson gameplay, with a somewhat hidden berserk I found only at the end, and a lonely shotgun at the very end. And a secret BFG, but this was another secret I skipped. Had to reccur to the editor, and I think in "real" play it's almost impossible to solve it, you would have to try all these hidden switches with tight timing? If these triangles are hints, it's almost impossible to know where they're really pointing at. So I guess this is also a "Doomgods-only" secret like in E3M8. Or I'm missing something ... In general 9/10, very good map with many lovely ideas, maybe a little bit confusing at times due to some similar-looking areas. Excellent midi by the way. E4M4: Unruly Evil - Tourniquet - A small map with chaotic, "unruly" fights with lots of bosses and infighting. Fits the title perfectly. The map is extremely fun and makes a lot out of its limited size. I think it makes also fun of "Doom mapper rules", see the poison signs close to harmless liquids, and lol at that BFG just before the exit. Other very good midi. One of my favorites so far. 10/10 E4M5: They Will Repent - Matt Powell (Cannonball)- Spiritual brother of Valiant's "Mancubian Candidate", "Evil Eye", Freedoom MAP 31, Eternal Doom 26 and a certain Poogers or Noye(?) map. First you've to pacifist your way through the first two thirds of the level, or "you will repent" (Didn't try if in the side areas there is some safe space, as I generally like pacifisting). A switch kills the punishers, but some seem to have survived and their less powerful friends can come for you now. That's also a favorite, the concept is not totally new, but very well executed and the final fight is really fun. Love that one of the secrets can be accessed in two ways (maybe even a third if a cyb rocket jumps you through another window ...). I found the BFG when everything was dead. It seems it's mostly realistic to find it before firing a shot, as when the chaos sets in you won't be able to hear that lift. 10/10 E4M6: Against Thee Wickedly - Steve Duff (SteveD) - A relative short cavern map with some cyberdemons and much lava. The difficulty of the fights is lower than in the previous maps. Good Doom1 fun with some herding elements added which make things easier. I liked the setup with the BK/RK cavern, which can be exited at any time but not without a small but potentially deadly obstacle. 8/10 E4M7: And Hell Followed - Peanut - with edits by dobu gabu maru - Large adventure map. Difficulty-wise another breather, although I liked the way the enemies are spawned in, so you always have to be wary of hitscanners draining your health. I didn't dislike the last fight, it was an interesting mix of "setpiece arena" and "normal densely populated map area" concept, although the spiders could be used better. They very easily get stuck on the border of their "towers". I loved the atmosphere with many mysteries to discover, almost "MyHouse" style. Sequence break: Blue key can be acquired early strafejumping to the ledge with the baron symbol near the BFG secret and then to the nearby rock ledge. It looks almost as this was intended. 9/10 E4M8: Unto the Cruel - Darryl Steffan (dobu gabu maru) - We return to the experimental concept-puzzle maps, and it's a very creative and beautiful one. Good troll move at the start, but I realized quickly this wasn't the intended path. So let's go the other way. I first thought the player would eventually return to the spiders with barons as meat shields but this idea lost traction once you realize how many barons would have to be squeezed into the small alternative exit arena. I consider some room for improvement: First, I think you can get stuck in the black parts surrounding the final arena, although I'm not sure about that. And in one of the baron herding puzzles near the YSK -- the one with the long path where you have to lure them into the short side paths -- it seems that with bad luck you will get surrounded without escape as the baron will sometimes simply walk straight on the main path. Don't know if this can be fixed, otherwise these puzzles are awesome. One secret requires exploration of a lava floor without any radsuits, and another one requires 120-130 health points (I didn't try it with the blue armor though, may be sufficient). Big final fight is fun but unfortunately ran slow on my computer. I accidentally played with complevel 9 however :) 9/10 in the current state, has potential for 10/10. Very good midi, no suprise considering the composer :) (why they're credited with two different pseudonyms here and at E4M4? Is this intended?) E4M9: Fear - TimeOfDeath - Really likable concept. The platforming puzzle with the crushers was really good, as was the voodoo doll puzzle. The weakest one in my opinion was the airplane puzzle, an extremely easy exercise of camping/covershooting, while the public speaking setpiece was great. Of course 2-shotting cyb exercises abound, as often in maps of this author (I played with "no" option at the start, may have to replay with "yes"). About the two major ending fights: I first wasn't very impressed, as you can hide from them. But then I thought about it and I think I appreciate that you can decide yourself how much fun to have. A bit of a playground. 9/10, not perfect but a map with a lot of character. Overall I loved UDINO. It delivers where already D2INO was good: Concept-heavy maps with fun and sometimes experimental/unconventional gameplay and in general very good visuals. Much less buggy and better crafted in general as its predecessor, the ~10 years (?) of difference are notable, even if some maps may be originally older. A major achievement is that in most maps I didn't miss the Doom 2 foes, the limited enemy roster was very well used in general. Maybe I missed the archvile :) General rating 9/10 with potential for 10/10 if some small annoyances are fixed. Cacoward material! Favorites were the mysterious computer station E1M7, E1M8, a demonstration of strength of the Baron, E3M8 with a creative final boss battle, E4M4 with pure fun, and E4M5 with again a really cool concept. E4M8, E1M6, E2M9 and E3M6 are excellent runners-up. 4 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted August 19, 2023 On 8/18/2023 at 12:51 PM, erzboesewicht said: Finally, my E4 comments Thanks for the playthrough! Excellent comments and feedback—will make sure to fix the zan-zan credits in the text file. Regarding E4M8's thin YK walkway: yup, it's definitely the most RNG-heavy spot in the map. My emergency strat is to preserve enough shells to gun the baron down if need be—which is admittedly a bit shit—but I like the excitement the encounter provides, especially when the baron behaves properly. It's a flawed fight for sure, but I have a weird attachment to it. I'll look into seeing if I can get stuck in the black pit, as I've never tried to aggressively wedge myself into the crevices. On 8/18/2023 at 12:31 PM, plums said: If you really wanted to up the nastiness factor you could have the floor there damaging though. Ha, I like that you're always suggesting ways to be nastier to the player—didn't take you for such a hardcore fellow! Damaging sectors could work but I really like the fight having zero lava/nukage, especially since the final fight of E4M8 is flooded with it. Honestly if I wanted a more idealized, hardcore version of E4M7 at this point I'd just make my own map from scratch, but Peanut's original layout is good enough that it would be a shame to toss it. Akin to E2M7, I think I'm at the point where any legit criticism of the map just elicits a shrug & "yea" from me. On 8/17/2023 at 3:59 AM, cannonball said: One other possible suggestion - though this will definitely be controversial…. I 100% agree with this. Firstly it adds a little unconventional zest to E4's structure—which is quite fitting for its quirky nature—and E4M3's theme gets accentuated when playing from pistol start. Plus it'll add more of an incentive to use E4M9's emergency exit, as it'll let continuous players keep their weapons at the cost of their health. 2 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted August 19, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, dobu gabu maru said: Ha, I like that you're always suggesting ways to be nastier to the player—didn't take you for such a hardcore fellow! lol I'm not always suggesting things like that ;) just offering options. I know mappers sometimes get annoyed when it turns out there are unintended ways to cheese through fights. As it is I think it's quite good right now, so if you have no problems with the platforms being relatively safe then I'm not going to insist otherwise. 1 Share this post Link to post
Magnusblitz Posted August 19, 2023 (edited) Might as well put in my two cents on E4 since I don't think I'll be playing E4M8 anytime soon... (all comments are on RC2) E4M1: Hell Beneath - _Bruce_ Does it fit the theme? YesAble to 100% kills and secrets: YesSecrets found without cheating: 2/2 This one is okay, if a bit underwhelming. Definitely one of the easier maps. It technically fits the INO theme, but does so in a way that I didn't find all that interesting, basically just being a mostly-underground E4-themed map. The layout feels like it's suited to be a DM map more than anything. I assume linedef 932 (gargoyle face) is mis-aligned? E4M2: Perfect Hatred - Steve Duff (SteveD) Does it fit the theme? YesAble to 100% kills and secrets: YesSecrets found without cheating: 5/5 Ah, this old chestnut. Still plays pretty well IMO. I almost felt like some of the edge was missing from the beginning, but that might just be because I've played it a lot before. The plasma gun ambush and cyberdemon trio still gave me plenty of fits, in a good way - there's plenty of options with being able to telefrag one and use the blood pits, just poor execution on my part. I do agree the BFG secret could be beefed up a bit, and a death exit might be a good idea for leading into E4M3. E4M3: Sever the Wicked - Darryl Steffan (dobu gabu maru) Does it fit the theme? YesAble to 100% kills and secrets: Yes*Secrets found without cheating: 0/2 This one really had me confused at the start much like @finnks13 was - I didn't realize the teleport took me to a different section, I thought it just took me back to the start, so I didn't even try the skull switch at first and just wandered aimlessly for awhile. Once I acquired the chainsaw it all clicked into place and I enjoyed the map immensely. The monster use/placement is very well balanced for a chainsaw-themed map, and the visuals are (as usual) quite good. That said, I'm not wild about the BFG secret (despite generally liking puzzles) for a few reasons. One, I couldn't figure it out without looking at the editor (I was thinking there might be a secret area requiring the player to repeatedly choose between two different options, with the one wrong locking them out). Two, I don't think it's even possible once the ending of the map has been reached, as the portions that sink into the lava in the middle of the map make it impossible (as far as I could tell) to traverse the last leg in time. Probably impossible to change at this point, but I'm generally not a fan of missable secrets, especially something this complex that the player likely won't bother with until most of the map is cleared out anyways. Lastly, even if it is doable, the reward isn't worth it. E4M4: Unruly Evil - Tourniquet Does it fit the theme? YesAble to 100% kills and secrets: NOSecrets found without cheating: 2/2 Really fun map that gets a lot of mileage out of a relatively small layout. The constantly moving lifts really do a good job of allowing the monsters, especially the cyberdemons, to pursue the player. I was really surprised at how well the big lugs were able to move around! Things look pretty nice too, in an understated way. The one negative of course is that the lost souls responsible for moving those lifts are trapped away, making it impossible to obtain 100% kills. Not sure if it would be possible to fix this or not (crushers activated in the exit room?). Also, the instant-drop wall near the red key looks weird. E4M5: They Will Repent - Matt Powell (Cannonball) Does it fit the theme? I guess? (pretty abstract title)Able to 100% kills and secrets: YesSecrets found without cheating: 2/2 This is another solid map, though like E4M3 it took me a little while to figure out the gimmick (even after figuring out part of the map had to be played pacifist to avoid teleporting in the cybers, I still tried to fight them once I got the BFG and before finding the crushers lol). E4M6: Against Thee Wickedly - Steve Duff (SteveD) Does it fit the theme? Meh (admittedly another abstract title)Able to 100% kills and secrets: YesSecrets found without cheating: 1/1 I... didn't really like this one, just kinda underwhelmed by it. I think Doom 1's limited bestiary is raring it's head again, as this is yet another map where the player is threatened by cybers early and needs to run and arm up before taking them out. There's some very dark corridors and lots of lava, which turns out to be more annoying than actually difficult. Also, the ending was sorta tucked away and I found myself just gathering keys out of habit rather than feeling there was a purpose to it. Sorry Steve. :( E4M7: And Hell Followed - Peanut - with edits by dobu gabu maru Does it fit the theme? Kinda, I guess the teleporting monsters are 'following'Able to 100% kills and secrets: YesSecrets found without cheating: 2/4 I played this one back when Peanut first released it, and I instantly remembered the final arena, but somehow didn't recognize the first area at all. Was interesting to go back and compare the original version - the first area is pretty much all Peanut, but dobu did a good job jazzing it up, and switching the flow of the layout (such as spawning in a different area). I think the changes really do make it sing, and appreciate Peanut's original layout much more. I did find combat a bit underwhelming in the first portion, though. It's fine to start somewhat sedate, especially since there's a lot of area to explore, but the warp-ins were really underwhelming, often just a handful of zombies or imps and making me think... that's it? There's also some points where they teleport sort of out of the way (such as grabbing the red key) and it felt like busy work to go back and clear them out. The second arena area is a shot in the arm, but almost too much so... I was kinda disappointed when pretty much all the big enemies get replaced and you get to clear it all out a second time. Still, good map. Texture stuff: - There are four 'flesh' columns around the teleporter (sector 136) in the south of the map. Three of them have 2 beige sides and 2 pink sides, the northeast one has 3 beige and 1 pink, but is not a secret. This irks me. - Linedefs 8603 and 8604 (sides of a marble column revealed in the blood area) aren't aligned, so the texture repeats and looks weird. E4M8: Unto the Cruel - Darryl Steffan (dobu gabu maru) I feel like I'm missing something with this map - seems impossible to win the straight-ahead fight with the spiders from a pistol start, so the "real" path is to find the secret immediately behind the start. But it feels weird to have a required path marked secret (coughcoughEternalDoom). I dunno, after seeing all the barons I didn't even really feel like making an attempt, maybe some other time. E4M9: Fear - TimeOfDeath Does it fit the theme? YESAble to 100% kills and secrets: Yes* (didn't kill everything because I am afraid of cybers)Secrets found without cheating: 1/2 This one knocks it out of the park when it comes to making use of the theme, probably the best map in the set in that regard. Gameplay is pretty good for the most part through the individual phobia rooms, but I feel like it takes a bit of a nosedive at the end - long-range Spider Masterminds in the lava, the fights on the 'sides' of the building feel a bit tacked on, etc. I was able to do all the puzzles on UV (looks like there's a few that are structured differently for different skill levels) with the exception of the final "fear of dying" one - I just don't see how there's enough time to hit all the switches to grab the BFG while the invuln sphere is still up. Thankfully, I had my own BFG from one of the other rooms, so just killed him that way. 3 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted August 20, 2023 19 hours ago, Magnusblitz said: There are four 'flesh' columns around the teleporter (sector 136) in the south of the map. Three of them have 2 beige sides and 2 pink sides, the northeast one has 3 beige and 1 pink, but is not a secret. This irks me. Hah, I knew I wasn't the only one who would be bothered by this! :D It's fixed in the version dobu posted above. 0 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) BTW I just replayed E4M7 and a Baron failed to teleport into the final fight, guess he was blocked when he crossed the tele line and never went back far enough to go over it again. Dunno how you fix this, if at all :/ 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) Here is my latest package of updates Steve D Updates 2 This contains updates to E4M2 and E4M6 suggested by @cannonball @plums @Magnusblitz @finnks13 @Inuk and the playthroughs I watched by @Catpho and @Ravendesk For E4M2, I heeded the requests by Catpho and Ravendesk to add more rockets to help with the Caco cloud. IIRC, I added 22 of them, which IMO made things a bit too easy, but even before then, I was in agreement with Magnus that it wasn't as tough as I'd like even before adding the rockets, but then again, I've played it a lot. Also, even though I still play in GZDoom, I play in Boom Strict, meaning that it's easy to get cornered by infinite-tall Cacos and rapidly killed. I also made the BFG fight a little tougher, but I'm not sure I agree that it really needs to be harder just because of how nice the prize is. After all, it's a fairly obtuse secret that many players either won't find until the end when they're looking to max, or if they do find it earlier, they'll be chewed up by the battles and might get taken out easily by a little shotgunner ambush -- like I was! :D For people who've played the map before and know how to find it, you can always schedule grabbing it after you snatch the Zerk from the Baron-Imp trap and sail on through. First-time players will have more trouble, IMO. I also fixed the texture issues that plums discovered. Thanks, plums! I did all this before I saw that CB had done a hotfix to repair that problem. I'll download that version to see how it differs from mine. I fixed the problem of the Cyb and Baron stuck together on Easy, as discovered by Inuk. Thanks, Inuk! I added what I call a Lava Drooler that I built from the Stongarg face, and IMO it turned out really well; From there I created the "spiderweb" of 20% lava. Because the strands are so skinny, they pose minimal risk to the player, but if you do get stung, it'll hurt! ;D Whether this adds much to the appearance or gameplay is debatable; if necessary, I can make the lava droolers drool blood instead. I didn't take the lava all the way out to the trench between sections because I use triangular 1-pixel sectors to create lighting on the Marbfaces over the entryways. To get the lava through, I'd have to make the sectors rectangular and more easily noticeable at ground level, and it didn't seem worth it. I followed the advice of plums and made the light brighter on the secret exit pushwall. I also added the death exit CB wanted. I've never made one of these before but it seems to work. I personally don't see why players get up in arms about this. All it does is force a pistol-start of the next map, so only continuers have standing for complaint, IMO. On the question of camping in the blood to kill the Cybs at the YK fight, I have never seen anyone do this in an FDA, and first play is all I care about, given how unlikely second plays are when the community has so much product to choose from -- a literal embarrassment of riches. That said, the original version of this map, going all the way back to 2014, was pure lava in that area, but over time I decided to take a little mercy on the player, figuring the Cybs would get me plenty of pelts -- as FDAs confirm. Therefore, if players want to cheese it a little on subsequent plays, that's fine by me. However, CB is the boss, so if you want lava in there, I'll give you a whole floor of lava, like in the old days. ;) I'd create a Marbface Lava Drooler to drip translucent lava walls, but since Boom tricks aren't allowed, I'd use my Stongarg droolers instead. Because the trench on that side communicates with the YK room, it will mean that falling into the trench guarantees losing health. Maybe we could make this 5% lava instead of the 20% elsewhere, given that some players might fall repeatedly in unsuccessful parkour attempts? It's your call, CB. There might be more to say about E4M2, but on to E4M6. The changes I made to this map include putting Block Monster lines around the key jumps to prevent players from getting infinite-talled. I also worked to reduce lighting problems produced by 90-degree walls in curving corridors, since they give a false secret clue. This was agonizingly time-consuming because my PC seems to be dying. It's getting random -- and frequent -- freezes that haven't been fixed by uninstalling updates or freeing space on the C:/ drive. I checked the mouse and it's working properly, but even if it wasn't, I'm a keyboarder, so I don't use the mouse while playing Doom. Alas, Doom is unplayable now, so I wasn't able to test the current versions of these maps. Other things I tried included turning off my VPN, swapping keyboards, and doing a surface test of my drive, which passed with flying colors. Not one red sector found. So maybe there's a PSU problem or some other issue. This machine is quite old, so I'm going to buy a refurbished PC in mid-September to tide me over until I buy a new gaming machine. Until then, however, I do have a very, very old back-up PC with like a Core 2 processor. It has DB2 onboard and ran it very smooth. It can play Doom well, but the fans are screaming, so it's a bit iffy. However, I can do some mapping and make needed changes. All that said, back to E4M6. I decided to remove the BFG. This map originally had no BFG; you had to do your thing with the Plasma Gun. Scotty played it and said he didn't enjoy using the PG on all those Cybs, which is understandable, so I added the BFG, but Finnks13 said it trivialized the map, and Ravendesk also said it was easy to get. Catpho finished the map without the BFG, so I think we can do without it. My view is that trying to max the map with just the PG gives the Cybs more opportunities to kill you, since you can't two-shot them. I've been on the brink of a perfect game when I made one mistake and a Cyb got me. Magnus made some other comments I can sympathize with, though personally, I've never been bothered by Doom 1's limited bestiary. I've played Shotgun Symphony at least twice in one sitting and my only complaint was a very sore trigger finger. ;D However, it is certainly possible to make this map more difficult by upping the lava to 20% and shrinking the islands so you have to cross more of it. My goal in this map was to confuse and panic the player through darkness and lava as basically a monster that keeps chipping away at you, while the Cybs pursue you everywhere. I want to give the player a hard time but not absolutely crush them. Another way to up the difficulty is to increase the number of lesser monsters, such as making the RK trap nastier by throwing in more Lost Souls. Everybody loves Lost Souls, right? I've babbled long enough. Allow me to thank everyone who played and commented on these maps, it's very much appreciated! :) Edited August 21, 2023 by Steve D 6 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) Quick fix for @Steve D's E4M2, you forgot the tag on the switch Steve :P Since your main computer is in its death throes I fixed it, also changed the hanging body texture to another switch since I can see some people opening that sector and not going in it because it looks like nothing is there. (If you really want I can change it back.) No need to credit me on this. https://user.fm/files/v2-c1a71b915ef2051c7f4d16b3e32af185/UDINO42alt31p.wad I like the other changes, the extra rockets didn't seem to make the map all that easier, just less tomato grinding, and the extra resistance when you get the BFG isn't huge but it's enough to make you want to use the cells you have instead of hoarding them for later, which is good enough IMO. E4M6 I was fine with before, and am neutral about the changes. I am a bit surprised that you never made use of a tag 666 on this map though! Edited August 21, 2023 by plums 3 Share this post Link to post
Benjogami Posted August 21, 2023 Here're some updates for e3m2: UDINOrc2-e3m2edit.zip (not playable by itself, doesn't include the resources, etc) - Fixed the damage sectors noted by @Caleb13 (the rest of the stuff is intended, for the "despair") - Slightly enhanced some texturing and lighting - Made the 2 hard-to-find secrets a bit easier to find, hopefully 4 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted August 21, 2023 3 hours ago, plums said: you forgot the tag on the switch Steve :P No tag needed in GZDoom, even in Boom Strict! ;) I'd like to test with PrBoom, but it was Crash-O-Matic on my machine since years. And now for the honors; thank you! I fully endorse the "plums edition" of this map. :) There's a 666 trigger on this map? What do I have to kill to set it off? 1 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Steve D said: There's a 666 trigger on this map? What do I have to kill to set it off? Tag 666 E4M6: Executes a blazing door open (blazeOpen) action when all cyberdemons are dead. edit: Pretty sure GZDoom always treats untagged linedefs as affecting the sector they're attached to, with no way to turn it off. Edited August 21, 2023 by plums 1 Share this post Link to post
Magnusblitz Posted August 22, 2023 8 hours ago, Steve D said: However, it is certainly possible to make this map more difficult by upping the lava to 20% and shrinking the islands so you have to cross more of it. My goal in this map was to confuse and panic the player through darkness and lava as basically a monster that keeps chipping away at you, while the Cybs pursue you everywhere. I want to give the player a hard time but not absolutely crush them. Another way to up the difficulty is to increase the number of lesser monsters, such as making the RK trap nastier by throwing in more Lost Souls. Everybody loves Lost Souls, right? I'd be adverse to upping the lava damage; I understand wanting to have an environmental hazard that adds another reason to keep running, but I think the lower amount accomplishes that while upping it to 20% just becomes annoying (especially with the RNG aspect of it). I might be going crazy, but I was thinking maybe adding more cacos? There's like what, 15 on the warp-in? A pittance! 2 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted August 23, 2023 On 8/21/2023 at 3:44 PM, Benjogami said: - Made the 2 hard-to-find secrets a bit easier to find, hopefully This was actually the one change I wanted to suggest for the map but felt it might be too minor a thing to require an update—glad you did so anyway! 2 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted August 23, 2023 I thought it would be worth making the edits to E2M7 public https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6vxpy7tuk3tgbuztc89g1/UDINOe2m7edits.wad?rlkey=uumyyobsxckq43aigpa2nxfay&dl=0 Changes General tidy up - Nothing major so I am not even sure how noticeable it will be. The way to access the backpack secret has been altered so it isn't blatantly obvious The blue key is visible on a platform in the same area as the previous placement (Grabbing it requires essentially to do the same thing as before, the fight here has been altered too. The blue door area again has a few minor tweaks The yellow key door should stand out a little more, I also made a second path to get there from one of the tunnels near the blue door. The yellow key area drop now has a meatier fight, it should provide sufficient challenge, also the escape route to the blue key area remains blocked until you pick up the yellow key. In the end I hope this improves the map somewhat, though I have realised that I still need to do some very minor tweaks still. 4 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted August 24, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, cannonball said: I thought it would be worth making the edits to E2M7 public Yellow key drop is better, not overly tough as long as you find either plasma weapon or the invuln but definitely adds some danger, definite improvement. Once you change the drop back to a lift, you can get stuck behind it, also the texture behind there is unpegged. Other changes were all good, pretty minor and don't change the map that much but positive overall. Edited August 24, 2023 by plums 1 Share this post Link to post
Major Cooke Posted September 9, 2023 (edited) E2M4, I'm uncertain how to proceed. I've telefragged the baron and I see the key outside the door of the chamber but I don't know how to get to it. Can someone explain to me what to do? EDIT: Nevermind, the route to go is hidden behind the damage area just beside the telefragging teleporter. Edited September 9, 2023 by Major Cooke 0 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted September 22, 2023 Just an update from me - Things are still going on behind the scenes, Dobu has gone through every map and cleaned up the auto maps. There are also a couple more streamers going through this at the moment and some adjustments will be made by me (hopefully minor) to fix a few issues/visual glitches. Hopefully something resembling a final release should be out by the start of October. As such @Nine Inch Heels, it would be great if I can have your edits to E3M6 and E3M8 by the end of the month if that is okay with you. 4 Share this post Link to post
ella guro Posted October 6, 2023 haven't been following Doom mapping much for the last several years but just wanna say - thanks for doing this project! it looks great!! love that several mappers from the original have done something too. definitely going to play it as soon as i can. 3 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted October 7, 2023 3 hours ago, ella guro said: definitely going to play it as soon as i can. Hope you enjoy! It's not as off-the-wall as some other grab-bag community projects where anyone can contribute, but a lot of folks thus far have described the mapset as "love it or hate it". We're veeeeery close to an official release, if you want to wait for that. 2 Share this post Link to post
Lila Feuer Posted October 7, 2023 I'm gonna be drowning in pwadussy before the end of the year because of you mfs. Spoiler 2 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) RC3 is here* https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rzfas5mxncre3e42393bs/UDINORC3.wad?rlkey=p3d8w14irgwu3t90osvp3frsd&dl=0 Changes Spoiler E1M1 – Fix exit hopefully, a few other visual fixes - Done E1M2 – Fixes by Steve D, a couple of alignment issues fixed E1M4 – Fix glitch on stairs behind red key door (moved lines) E1M5 – Sector 133 – superfluous sector tag removed E1M6 – Nukage fight – fix damaging floor issue E2M3 – Removed some pointless monster blocking lines E2M5 - Mouldy's edits E2M7 - Some overhauls done by myself in both visuals and combat. E2M8 – Replaced ROCK13 with SP_ROCK, slight lengthening of the lowering walls in sector 1611 to hopefully allow monsters to teleport in all ports. E3M2 – Benjogami edits E3M7 – HNTR demons move from stuck position, another go at fixing the void bridge in the blue key secret, altered first fight in the secret blue key area. E3M8 – Removed some incorrect texture entries on off-side, slight edit to the size of the switches (likely to be superceeded by NIH fixes) E4M1 – Fix misalignment on secret sector E4M2 – Steve D fixes E4M6 – Steve D edits E4M7 – Dobu edits (edits to red key and final fight) SKY3 fix (Made by Plums) MDOOM correction Titlepic update from Sincity2100 New status bar (Made by Dobu Gabu Maru) There might be a few other changes but my mind has gone blank. I was hoping we would have a final release but we are still waiting on edits to a couple of maps. Edited October 20, 2023 by cannonball 10 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) Went through my list of issues from RC2, the only significant one remaining is in E1M5, at the end part you can get the plasma gun and back out without triggering the ambush, causing you to teleport and get locked in. I don't think I reported this one because I thought I saw someone else mention it, sorry if not and it fell through the cracks. edit: Here's a fix, technically not foolproof since I did it the easy way and just narrowed the gap between the two linedefs to 1 unit on the north/0 on the south, but should be good enough if you want it. Figured this one has been edited by a bunch of people already so I might as well have a go :) (You don't need to add me to the map author credits) https://user.fm/files/v2-028c6b89873e2c108a42a970e6508eb2/UDINORC3_E1M5.wad.zip You're almost there, guys and gals! Edited October 20, 2023 by plums 2 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted October 31, 2023 So as of now the plan will be to put up the final release of this wad before the end of the month with the intent to have this on IDgames before the 10th December. However as of this moment we have no official update from the author of E3M6 or E3M8, so plan A will be that we get the updates from Nine Inch Heels and everything can move to the end point with no further hold ups. However if plan A doesn't happen I am doing some piecemeal alterations to lower difficulties on these maps (Mostly allow the player to take more damage than the current set ups but not altering anything else) and then just accepting these as the final version. @Nine Inch Heels It will be great to have those updates of you, as I suspect you have more elaborate plans for lower difficulties than I will implement as a last resort. 1 Share this post Link to post
plums Posted October 31, 2023 Looks like NIH hasn't been online since early September, hopefully all is well with her. 2 Share this post Link to post