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Johnatone

1976 was a good year...

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i'm a big fan of the late seventies, eighties, and early nineties music. you know: disco, punk, techno, wave, metal, rock, hip hop, rap, grundge, industrial, et cetera. my problem with today's music is it attempts to mimick the old music and fails. nu-metal for instance. but it's nu-punk that pisses me off. punk has an energy, a motion, a movement, a rage to it. that's why it was so good. today's 'punk' is just a bunch of loser twenty-somethings dressing up and playing fast palm muted guitars while bitching. that's not what punk is. it doesn't have the same pissed-off-edness about it that made the original punk so great. punk wasn't a fashion statement, yet i see these dumbshits listening to blink 182, good charolette, new found glory, et cetera, goin' around dressin' up, makin' comments about how punk somebody is. this isn't punk. it's just shit. at least have the decency to respect our pioneering fathers in music and call this new stuff 'alternative'. it's an insult to call it punk.

of course, you might think differently.

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Damn straight, it sucks.

I miss seeing Iron Maiden vids.

And I'm sure as hell tired of bands like Good Charlotte and Sum 41 trying to be goth-metal-punk-bleck, cause it fucking sucks.

Tho AFI rocks a bit in that respect.

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I agree, specifically when you mention techno. I still go for the older stuff, like Kraftwerk, Cybotron (Juan Atkins), DJ Frankie Knuckles, etc. The newer stuff isn't as original or impressive.

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Yes, music has generally sucked in the past 10 years. The only real new genre in that time period was Grunge, which was good, but all the founding bands have died off and now its just imitators. The state of music can only be blamed on those monopoly holders, namely MTV and the RIAA. They flood the market with crappy easy-to sell music and completely block any kind of good music from coming out. It used to be bands formed from a group of people playing in their basement or something, but now they are formed when big record labels audition pretty boys and sluts to sing along to pre-written music.

On the up side, Industrial seems to be returning. KMFDM has recently reformed, and now Skinny Puppy is working on a new album (with the drummer from Tool, or so I heard). Also, splinter groups from these bands, namely ohGr and Slick Idiot seem to be coming up with some fresh, good-sounding music. There also seems to be a disturbing rise in the popularity of EBM as well, and musicians like Razed in Black, Front Line Assembly, and Apoptygma Berzerk seem to be gaining much attention. I contribute this largely to the widespread trade of underground music over the internet. :P

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Yes - KraftWork, Skinny Puppy, and Ohgr - they're great. As for KMFDM, I'm just sick of them at this point - I've heard one to many KMFDM songs, no more for a while.

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I disagree, the nineties have not been entirely in vain from a musical perspective.

As you say there were grunge (that managed to spawn and influence a plethora of modern rock subgenres, reviving the skin-dead heavy genre).

Then there were all the hybrids. Industrial mixed with synth-pop and dance, hip-hop mixed with rock and electronica to form trip-hop.

Nu-metal actually used to rule back in the day when it was still called new-breed (from KoRn's two first albums and the Deftones first).

Shoot, even dance used to rule somewhat back in 93.


I think it all took a turn for the worse from 96 and forth. KoRn started to go pop. It was a bit cool to start with, but it set an unhealthy example leading to travesties such as Linkin' Park and Alien Ant Farm. Coal Chamber was probably the last cool new breed name.

The last somewhat tolerable dance hit was Sash's catchy Equador. The rest of the album sucked (it even blatantly ripped off a Jean Michel Jarre riff in one of the tracks changing but one note). From there on all dance became schematicized crap with zero musical value. Robert Miles' cheesy (but lucrative) dream dance formula pervaded the whole genre, removing all last traces of "bounciness" there might have been. Now the only cool dance there is left is Faithless and the bouncier parts of the EBM/Darkwave genres (Apoptygma Berserk, VNV Nation).

Luckily dance was largely replaced in most discos by first big beat and then french filter house. It helped somewhat as this was generally dancable, but both genres relatively quickly petrified into a very stiff form.

R'n'B could have been so much more than it had been now. Back in the nineties bands such as TLC and En Vogue produced many pop evergreens, the genre actually DEVELOPED taking more and more from the more advanced hip hop and blending it with all kinds of other musical traditions. There have been a steady buildup of talent, both artists writers and producers. Still the result is crud because it seems that maintaining a high bing bling count (glossing over all surfaces, removing all quirks to make it sound like a million dollars) is more important than any other musical consideration. Also showing off expensive designer clothers and/or booty have been steadily more important (I won't even discuss Brittany Spears and Christina Aguilera since that would be too much rantage).

There is still loads of cool hip hop being made, but again only the glossy bling bling stuff ever reaches the broad public. Eminem was actually a fresh diversion. Too bad they are wrapping him up in that stupid romance novel Eminem concept making people hate him even before listening to his music at all.

Then there was the retarded Skater Punk that just got more and more retarded (Zebrahead must be the lowest point yet, surpassing even Avril Lavigne). Offspring used to be a decent semi-metal band, but Americana changed that. Now they are as hollow as anything else. Shoot, even Rage Against the Machine is sucking corporate **** now!

The sad part is that today's youth is growing up with a completely wrong impression of what punk is about.

Good old-timers like Carlos Santana and Elton John is now being used to piggyback substanceless forgettable bands into an orbit they could never achieve themselves. The effort of these "old superstars" are providing a few sparse riffs, their mug flashing sporadically in the videos and their name in the credit list.

Industrial is still suffering from the common misconception that Industrial=Nine Inch Nails, which is absurd since NIN is hardly an industrial outfit in the classic sense. Like Eminem NIN is suffering from overmarketing. Sometimes makes me wish that Trent Reznor would sign up permanently with id Software to make way for a new industrial idol.

Trip hop was almost ritual sacrifice. A horror story of how the music industry is sometimes so obsessed with innovation that it hardly takes the time to reap the fruits of it's innovations. Trip hop was a many-headed chimera of a genre filled with excellent ideas. The english music press caught wind and hyped it out of all proportions. As a second generation of trip hop bands was forming the press suddenly turned around and scolded these "copycats" with vengeance making trip hop into a taboo word. Really sad in my opinion.

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/me spanks Kraftwerk

pretty much the only good music on today is indie stuff you're not going to find on the radio

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sargebaldy said:

/me spanks Kraftwerk

pretty much the only good music on today is indie stuff you're not going to find on the radio


"...Even the greatest stars... dislike themselves in the Looking Glass..."

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Little Faith said:

Industrial is still suffering from the common misconception that Industrial=Nine Inch Nails, which is absurd since NIN is hardly an industrial outfit in the classic sense. Like Eminem NIN is suffering from overmarketing. Sometimes makes me wish that Trent Reznor would sign up permanently with id Software to make way for a new industrial idol.

Yeah, these days people equate industrial with NIN and Aphex Twin. Sadly, they even call non-industrial stuff like Rob Zombie, Rammstein and Manson industrial (well Manson was Industrial-ish when they started out).

The real industrial musical talents like Ogre, En Esch, John Balance, Peter Christopherson, Cevin Key, Genesis P. Orridge (well he was at least unique :P), and such go overlooked. For the ten thousandth time, I shall quote Ogre: "http://www.synthetic.org/ram/cracker.ram". Heh...

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I'm currently listening to Ian Hunter. In a way it kinda has to do with the topic; same timeframe. :P :)

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Mr. Brett Guerwitz (sp?) is back in Bad Religion. All is right with the world.

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The problem with Electronica these days is that pretty much anyone can get their hands on sound hardware and samples. Which means 90% of stuff that is released sucks big time. I don't know how many times I've heard electronic music sound like hip-hop loops without lyrics. That's why I listen to stuff that's not commercial.

There's a lot of good stuff from the 80's from most genres. Even though I only spent 6 years of my life in the 80's it often beats the stuff on radio/TV today.

And of course there is always classical music, back before there were record companies.

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Well, even though I'm not much of an expert on music, I have noticed one thing: Is it just me or do all of today's punk bands seem to sound the same?

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Lizardcommando said:

Well, even though I'm not much of an expert on music, I have noticed one thing: Is it just me or do all of today's punk bands seem to sound the same?

See why I'd rather dwell in the past? After all, isn't that why I still play/edit for a 9-year old game? :P :)

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ravage said:

See why I'd rather dwell in the past? After all, isn't that why I still play/edit for a 9-year old game? :P :)


Heh, true. That's probably why most people hear still play/edit a 9-year old game, like me. Well, I'm actually kinda glad I'm not much of a music person, I have a MUCH lower chance of getting swept up or conformed by those brainwashing nazis at MTV and other stupid crap like that!!!

w00t!!!!111 666 post!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! :p

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Lizardcommando said:

Heh, true. That's probably why most people hear still play/edit a 9-year old game, like me. Well, I'm actually kinda glad I'm not much of a music person, I have a MUCH lower chance of getting swept up or conformed by those brainwashing nazis at MTV and other stupid crap like that!!!

w00t!!!!111 666 post!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! :p

I'm quite a music person, just in my own set ways. Not that that's a bad thing mind you. :)

Oh, and THEYLLE NEVAR TAKE MEE ALIVE!!

Heh, it's mandatory by now. :P

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Tyockell said:

1987 was a bad year....I was born. Darkness falls upon mankind

Shouldn't I be saying that?

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It's called getting older. Did you really expect bands like offspring to stay the same forever?

Yeah, these days people equate industrial with NIN and Aphex Twin. Sadly, they even call non-industrial stuff like Rob Zombie, Rammstein and Manson industrial (well Manson was Industrial-ish when they started out).

What does the genre given to a performer have to do with it's quality?

i see these dumbshits listening to blink 182, good charolette, new found glory, et cetera, goin' around dressin' up, makin' comments about how punk somebody is. this isn't punk. it's just shit. at least have the decency to respect our pioneering fathers in music and call this new stuff 'alternative'. it's an insult to call it punk.

Seems like the real problem isnt the music, but the people you see listening to it. Im an avid punk listener also, and I agree that the above listed bands arent exactly punk ( I refer to it as mainstream punk). However, that doesnt mean that they totally suck, just because they dont fit in with your idea of a genre. If you dislike the music itself, thats fine. But if your opinion is being influenced by the label that something has been given, or the following that it has, then your exactly the same as the "dumbshits".

Music companies and radio stations are going to play whatever is popular, because thats where the money is. The problem isnt the companies, it's the people listening to the stations. If you think whats being played on the radio sucks, then get them to play something else. Next time you see those skater kids listening to Sum 41 (which does suck, except for one short song), introduce them to what you think is good. They may just like it.

Edit: The topic of labeling is itself a problem. The first thing that comes to mind ATM is Thursday. They are labeled as punk, but totally arent. I dont know what you'd call them, but they have a really interesting style. Unfortunately, they dont get the recognition they deserve because of the genre label. I'd like to do away with genres in general, but of course that would be impossible.

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I agree. Good electro will go to the grave with Prodigy, Underworld and Orbital.

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Assmaster said:

What does the genre given to a performer have to do with it's quality?

Uh...absolutely nothing. But tis pretty dumb to call what is clearly just metal 'industrial'. It shows how musicaly stupid most people are.

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the_Danarchist said:

Uh...absolutely nothing. But tis pretty dumb to call what is clearly just metal 'industrial'. It shows how musicaly stupid most people are.

lol...musicaly stupid heh thats great.

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the_Danarchist said:

Uh...absolutely nothing. But tis pretty dumb to call what is clearly just metal 'industrial'. It shows how musicaly stupid most people are.

Or Industrial Metal. It uses elements of Industrialesque music (samples for example) while still retaining the Metal sound.

Is it just me or was that last sentence both weird and stupid?

And I totally agree with the subject, most music over the past 10 years has sucked so badly.

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Industrial metal: A hybrid genre combining industrial beats with metal. Ministry is probably the most well known band in this genre.

Nine Inch Nails is probably closer to industrial rock rather than metal (though NIN is exceptionally hard to categorize).

Industrial in it's pure form has little to do with rock or metal at all sharing common roots with electro.

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DarkWolf said:

The problem with Electronica these days is that pretty much anyone can get their hands on sound hardware and samples. Which means 90% of stuff that is released sucks big time. I don't know how many times I've heard electronic music sound like hip-hop loops without lyrics. That's why I listen to stuff that's not commercial.

I would only partly agree with that. I have no problem with anyone getting their hands on sound hardware. If it were not for the accessibility of such hardware, I wouldn't be able to experiment with electronica and write Doom soundtracks. Samples, on the other hand, I'm not a fan of. Imo, go write your own damned samples.

But overall, I have nothing against sound hardware becoming more and more accessable to the common person. Releasing it is another story, and I think only the good people should get signed or such. But, if the hardware wasn't so easy to get anymore, this could actually slow down the evolution of electronica.

You could probably tie this all into Kraftwerk's song "Pocket Calculator", or even their whole "Computer World" CD. They had ideas of using more everyday items, such as little calculators that made sound and a Speak and Spell (listen to the opening sounds on "Home Computer"), which showed that people could at least start doing the things they did.

Mind you, I'm not mentioning software synths or stuff like that, as I don't use them. I prefer hardware over software.

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TeamKill said:

But overall, I have nothing against sound hardware becoming more and more accessable to the common person. Releasing it is another story, and I think only the good people should get signed or such.


I think my post came off a bit too extreme. It's fine that people can have access to these tools, but yes, they should be careful of what they release.

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The best thing to do (IMO) is judge music on a song by song basis. It seems too many are caught in the webs of sticking to one particular type of genre or artist.

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