Attempt Cereson : the Anti Plutonia Community Project (Inscriptions close on 11-01-23, 9/??? slots filled)

[Demonic Meatball]

Hey you! Yes, you! Have you ever thought : “Man, why must there be chaingunners on that ledge ? Why do revenants always constitute 30% of the killcount ? Why does every major encounter have to end on 14 arch-viles teleporting in and undoing my hard work ?” Of course you never did, cause you know exactly why, you know exactly what is responsible : The Plutonia Experiment. Milo and Dario Casali’s 32 map opus has arguably had more influence on today’s megawads than Doom 2 itself. In this community project however, we tell that influence to fuck off. We’re not just ignoring the Casali’s teachings, we’re actively going against them !

 

The aim of this project is to be as opposed to the Plutonia experiment as we can, in as many areas as possible.

 

 

Format : Limit-removing.

 

Textures : Vanilla doom 2 + Lightly reworked Stardate 20X6 palette and textures. You can also add up to 3 custom textures per person, as long as they aren’t from / don’t look like they’re from Plutonia of course. Also, avoid textures with Plutonia’s brand of greenery. That also extends to grass, because we are true gamers here.

 

Music : Anything that wasn't made for the iwads. Bonus points if they're entirely original or unused.

 

Enemy Roaster :

 

-        Encouraged : Zombiemen, Imps, Pinkies

 

-        Discouraged* : Cyberdemons, Hell Knights, Mancs, Arachnotrons, Pain Elementals

 

-        Essentially** Banned : Revenants, Arch-Viles, Chaingunners

 

 

 

*You can still use them, just less than usual

**You can use 1 or 2 of any of those in your map, but that's it.

 

The rest can be used as much as usual. Well, exept for maybe these two…

 

New Enemies/Project Ressources : Plutonia completely excluded SSs and Keens from its roaster ? Screw that ! Also, you know what isn't plutonia at all ? Tweaks to the base arsenal. So, here’s a wad and dehacked containing reskinned versions of the two enemies, and buffed versions of the fist, chainsaw, pistol and plasma gun for your personal use ! :

 

Resources

 

This wad will also contain your custom textures (and also the already mentionned stardate palette and textures) as well as the M_DOOM, TITLEPIC, INTERPIC and BOSSBACK. It also contains the skies for the new episodes. Speaking of which,

 

Episode Themes :

Episode 1 will be set in UAC bases in a rocky desert.

Episode 2 will be set in the one place that hasn’t been consumed by Casalism : Space !

And finally, episode 3 is in hell, because of course it is, that’s where most megawads end.

Secret levels are not restricted to these themes, and should be fun, gimmicky levels. And no, raising the difficulty like Plutonia did does not count as a gimmick, so don’t do that.

Btw, if you want a map in a specific theme (or just a map), but all slots are taken, that's not a problem, we'll extend the limits (UMAPINFO for the win !)

 

Mapping Guidelines :

-        Coop, Deathmatch and all difficulties should be implemented.

-        Of course, we’re not going the super hard route Plutonia took, but still aim at being a bit harder than doom 2.

-        Invisible bridges, doors and other invisible sector shenanigans are a big no-no.

-        Pop-up monsters, lock-in fights and turret enemies (especially hitscanners) are also discouraged.

-        No copying Ultimate Doom/Doom 2 (nobody does that anyway, but here it's important to specify).

Liquids : The inconsistency of Plutonia’s damaging liquids is dumb, so in this project we’re strict about the rules : purple goop deals 5 damage, blood deals 10 damage, lava deals 20 damage, and that’s it, the rest deals no damage.

 

Levels :

Spoiler

Episode 1 : Desert Bases

MAP01 : @Moustachio ----- D_RUNNIN : [OPEN]

MAP02 : @Meyland12 ----- D_STALKS : [OPEN]

MAP03 : [OPEN] ----- D_COUNTD : [OPEN]

MAP04 : @minimedals ----- D_BETWEE : [OPEN]

MAP05 : [OPEN] ----- D_DOOM : [OPEN]

MAP06 : [OPEN] ----- D_THE_DA : [OPEN]

MAP07 : [OPEN] ----- D_SHAWN : [OPEN]

MAP08 : @Wilster_Wonkels ----- D_DDTBLU : [OPEN]

MAP09 : @AnArchaicApparatus ----- D_IN_CIT : [OPEN]

MAP10 : @Zulk RS ----- D_DEAD : [OPEN]

MAP11 : [OPEN] ----- D_STLKS2 : [OPEN]

Episode 2 : Space Stations

MAP12 : @PinkFlamingo ----- D_THEDA2 : [OPEN]

MAP13 : @Lina ----- D_DOOM2 : [OPEN]

MAP14 : [OPEN] ----- D_DDTBL2 : [OPEN]

MAP15 : [OPEN] ----- D_RUNNI2 : [OPEN]

MAP16 : [OPEN] ----- D_DEAD2 : [OPEN]

MAP17 : [OPEN] ----- D_STLKS3 : [OPEN]

MAP18 : [OPEN] ----- D_ROMERO : [OPEN]

MAP19 : [OPEN] ----- D_SHAWN2 : [OPEN]

MAP20 : [OPEN] ----- D_MESSAG : [OPEN]

Episode 3 : Hell

MAP21 : [OPEN] ----- D_COUNT2 : [OPEN]

MAP22 : @NecrumWarrior ----- D_DDTBL3 : [OPEN]

MAP23 : [OPEN] ----- D_AMPIE : [OPEN]

MAP24 : [OPEN] ----- D_THEDA3 : [OPEN]

MAP25 : [OPEN] ----- D_ADRIAN : [OPEN]

MAP26 : [OPEN] ----- D_MESSG2 : [OPEN]

MAP27 : [OPEN] ----- D_ROMER2 : [OPEN]

MAP28 : [OPEN] ----- D_TENSE : [OPEN]

MAP29 : [OPEN] ----- D_SHAWN3 : [OPEN]

MAP30 : [OPEN] ----- D_OPENIN : [OPEN]

Secret Levels

MAP31 : @DankMetal ----- D_EVIL : [OPEN]

MAP32 : [OPEN] ----- D_ULTIMA : [OPEN]

 

Outside level stuff :

Spoiler

 

TITLEPIC : [OPEN]

                                                                                         D_DM2TTL : [OPEN]

M_DOOM : [OPEN]

                                                                                         D_DM2INT : [OPEN]

INTERPIC : [OPEN]

                                                                                         D_READ_M : [OPEN]

BOSSBACK : [OPEN]

 

 

 

 

 

Submission Templates :

Spoiler

 

Maps :

-        Map Slot :

-        Map Name :

-        Author(s) :

-        Ports tested :

-        Midi (if you already have one) : Midi Name by Midi Author

-        Screenshots :

 

Midis :

-        Midi Name :

-        Author(s) :

-        Placement : Map Slot/Intermission/Title/Story

 

 

Time Restrictions : I’m hoping for all map slots to be filled by 11-1-2023 and have a first ready-for-playtest version of each map by 7-1-2024, so summer holidays can be spent on final playtesting for a release some time September 2024. @ me if you’re interested.

 

And with that said, that should be it. Have fun !

 

Edited November 21 by Demonic Meatball

[DankMetal]

Finally, a Community project of my taste, can i take map 31?

[Demonic Meatball]

Just now, DankMetal said:

Finally, a Community project of my taste, can i take map 31?

Dew it

[Andromeda]

Interesting, I'd swap Cyberdemons for chaingunners though.

[Demonic Meatball]

1 minute ago, Andromeda said:

Interesting, I'd swap Cyberdemons for chaingunners though.

Understandable, but I crunched the numbers before making this post, and... yeah, proportionately Cybers win, by a mile.

 

Chaingunners : 284 in Doom 2 vs 704 in Plutonia

Cyberdemons : 5 in Doom 2 vs 23 in Plutonia

[Firedust]

why are hell knights discouraged? they are barely a threat on their own unless you fight them in super tight spaces.

[Demonic Meatball]

3 minutes ago, Firedust said:

why are hell knights discouraged? they are barely a threat on their own unless you fight them in super tight spaces.

 

It's not really a matter of if they're a threat or not, it's more tied to the fact that Plutonia's HK count is more than twice as big as Doom 2

[Walter confetti]

This Is a pretty interesting project!

And against all my decisions to don't join a new community project blindly, sign me for... MAP02.

Edited September 14 by Walter confetti

[Demonic Meatball]

@Andromeda Nvm I checked again, Plutonia has 23 Cybers but 17 of them are in the secret levels, so they're not that omnipresent. Swapping immidiately.

[Ravendesk]

Isn't enemy roster basically doom 1 roster now? xd

[Walter confetti]

Even better, KDiTD enemy rooster, now i think about It.

[taufan99]

4 minutes ago, Ravendesk said:

Isn't enemy roster basically doom 1 roster now? xd

Minus the cacodemon (not sure if OP intentionally omits it or just forgot it exists).

[Demonic Meatball]

6 minutes ago, taufan99 said:

Minus the cacodemon (not sure if OP intentionally omits it or just forgot it exists).

 

Bruh have you seen my profile pic ? |D

 

Seriously though, I omitted them because they should be used as usual. Same with Lost Souls, Barons, Spider Masterminds and Spectres.

[NecrumWarrior]

Also no mention of Barons so I assume they are fair game too. 

[Moustachio]

Sign me up for MAP01 please!

[Demonic Meatball]

5 minutes ago, NecrumWarrior said:

Also no mention of Barons so I assume they are fair game too. 

 

Oops, thought I mentionned them. Yeah, used as usual too.

 

Though gotta say, if I went purely based on numbers, then Barons would have been banned : 90 barons in Plutonia vs 31 in Doom 2 !

[Demonic Meatball]

Just now, Moustachio said:

Sign me up for MAP01 please!

 

Adding you in !

[TheNerevarine]

im following this thread its more funny than anything

[NecrumWarrior]

Well as an unapologetic Plutonia fan this project disgusts me...

 

Sign me up for MAP22. 

Edited September 14 by NecrumWarrior

[Zulk RS]

As someone who doesn't like Plutonia, I want to join. However my laptop is shit right now and half the programs don't work so I can't map. Posting so that I can find this thread again later and if it still has slots open when I get a better laptop (Should be soon enough) I'll sign up for it.

[Meyland12]

Hello there. 😎

 

Well it's truth that many megawads like for example Sunlust adopt Brothers Casill's tactic called "Throwing X chaingunners/Archvilles/Revennts as many as possible". I would like take map 3 since it's easier to use more low-tier ememies in first half of megawad. 😉

[Demonic Meatball]

3 minutes ago, Meyland12 said:

Hello there. 😎

 

Well it's truth that many megawads like for example Sunlust adopt Brothers Casill's tactic called "Throwing X chaingunners/Archvilles/Revennts as many as possible". I would like take map 3 since it's easier to use more low-tier ememies in first half of megawad. 😉

Added !

[Meyland12]

Also i have 2 qustions.

 

1. I download that resoruce pack to use in my map right?

2. I guess someone else will do midi for my map right?

 

I know some these qustions sound simple but i prefer to be sure.

[Christophine Place]

Hi there, this looks interesting, but I've noticed a fair amount of things in the resources that won't work at all in most ports, let alone vanilla.

The main thing you wanna fix so it loads in every port (that isn't a ZDoom variant), is to add Doom 2's lumps called PNAMES and TEXTURE1 into your wad file, then add the custom textures to it.

As far as vanilla stuff goes, you'll firstly want to bring the sprites section to the top of the list in the wad, so it's above everything in the wad.

Spoiler

Next you'll want to change the names of the sprites in the dehacked patch so vanilla doesn't cry, you can edit them in the strings section. It's a long list but you can find all the sprite names at the bottom of the list. After changing the sprite name's string, just change the names of them in the wad to what you put in the dehacked patch. (Also I don't know if this is actually true, but I've always done it just to be sure, I've heard you should put the dehacked patch below the sprites in the wad to get it to work properly.)

Spoiler

 

Lastly, the skies need to be edited if you want them to work in vanilla. DoomKid has a good tutorial on how to do long skies in vanilla, but the easiest fix is they will need to be 128 pixels high. That kind of goes for all vanilla textures by the way, they all have a maximum height of 128 pixels tall.

Spoiler

 

 

Hope this was helpful, and I hope the project goes well!

[Demonic Meatball]

1 minute ago, Meyland12 said:

Also i have 2 qustions.

 

1. I download that resoruce pack to use in my map right?

2. I guess someone else will do midi for my map right?

 

I know some these qustions sound simple but i prefer to be sure.

 

1. Yes, and 2. Not necessarily, you can do it yourself too !

 

 

[Demonic Meatball]

3 hours ago, Christophine Place said:

Hi there, this looks interesting, but I've noticed a fair amount of things in the resources that won't work at all in most ports, let alone vanilla.

The main thing you wanna fix so it loads in every port (that isn't a ZDoom variant), is to add Doom 2's lumps called PNAMES and TEXTURE1 into your wad file, then add the custom textures to it.

As far as vanilla stuff goes, you'll firstly want to bring the sprites section to the top of the list in the wad, so it's above everything in the wad.

  Reveal hidden contents

Next you'll want to change the names of the sprites in the dehacked patch so vanilla doesn't cry, you can edit them in the strings section. It's a long list but you can find all the sprite names at the bottom of the list. After changing the sprite name's string, just change the names of them in the wad to what you put in the dehacked patch. (Also I don't know if this is actually true, but I've always done it just to be sure, I've heard you should put the dehacked patch below the sprites in the wad to get it to work properly.)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Lastly, the skies need to be edited if you want them to work in vanilla. DoomKid has a good tutorial on how to do long skies in vanilla, but the easiest fix is they will need to be 128 pixels high. That kind of goes for all vanilla textures by the way, they all have a maximum height of 128 pixels tall.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Hope this was helpful, and I hope the project goes well!

 

Thanks, that was a bit of a necessary reminder, I tested the Resources with Crispy Doom, completely forgetting that it was ZDoom-based ! Changed the resources in the OP, also added the dehacked seperate from the wad, 'cause if I recall having it inside the wad doesn't work either in vanilla.

Edited September 14 by Demonic Meatball

[Christophine Place]

1 hour ago, Demonic Meatball said:

 

Thanks, that was a bit of a necessary reminder, I tested the Resources with Crispy Doom, completely forgetting that it was ZDoom-based ! Changed the resources in the OP, also added the degacked seperate from the wad, 'cause if I recall having it inside the wad doesn't work either in vanilla.

 

The dehacked patch being in the wad should be fine, so long as the sprites are at the top of the wad's contents. By the way, I would really recommend testing wads in DSDA to make sure everything works properly, it's not only the port most people use, but will give you appropriate errors so that what you're making is compatible with any limit removing port. Granted the best port for vanilla testing is Chocolate Doom and ChocoRenderLimits.

Edit: I now realise you mean you included the dehacked lump separately *and* in the wad, that's the right thing to do for vanilla wads, you're all good.

Edited September 14 by Christophine Place

[PinkFlamingo]

I like the wolfenstein and keen replacements :-)

Can I claim map 12? Want to make a space station map.

Also, if I understand it correctly, we can add a few custom textures to our maps?

[Demonic Meatball]

Just now, PinkFlamingo said:

I like the wolfenstein and keen replacements :-)

Can I claim map 12? Want to make a space station map.

Also, if I understand it correctly, we can add a few custom textures to our maps?

 

You got It ! And yea, you can add a few custom texture, just be sure they fit in with stock Doom 2 textures. 

[General Roasterock]

I’m going to critique the frame of this community project, as I feel it could be doing a lot more to stick out at a time where a lot of these seem to be coming up.

 

-Most of this post reads like “I ragequit at Map 14 and feel the need to stick it to the man”. I obviously can’t prove that this is anywhere close to how the idea came about, but barring entire types of monsters, concepts like the Icon of Sin which Plutonia didn’t even invent, and most of the color green reads that way. Instead, this post could do well to read into exactly why drawing a Plutonia map makes it a Plutonia map (what would maps look like without lock-in fights, or monster turrets?).

-Unless you plan on commissioning 35 new music tracks, I feel like all new music will be a significant hurdle. I respect the idea of going against the arbitrary selection Plutonia did, but there’s a reason that most projects end up using what composers freely give out. This isn’t even mentioning the authors that want to have their own conclusive vision, make maps based on the content of the music they select, or otherwise depend on a song choice they can control (vice versa for some midi makers too).

-Having no base resource pack for texturing could very well lead to a disaster for management. I have my own idea of what a “desert base” would look like visually, and that no doubt differs from everyone else here. More power to you if you don’t mind the potential of every map having different looks, but I’ve seen it happen before.

-Giving till the end of the year for forum users to do the equivalent of raising their hand is really lenient, and leaves the potential for people to just not do anything with the time they have. I feel it’s perfectly reasonable for a vanilla CP to be in a draft state in a month.

 

Ultimately, I hope you’re ready for the many different interpretations as to what Plutonia means to people. They will most definitely come up, and could contradict the history of the color green in Doom. I hope this goes well.