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netnomad312

HOMs that didn't appear before... appear in ZDoom?

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I posted something like this on the source ports board, but nobody was able to help, so I figured I'd take it here, being more of an editing question anyway...

When I run my (far from finished) megawad in Doom95 or Doom2.exe, I can look out the windows in the level, and see the sky. Yep. Now, in ZDoom, there are HOMs all over the place. The image which repeats itself is mostly sky. These HOMs appear virtually everywhere I look out into the sky, which includes normal windows (with their own sky-trick sectors), multiple windows which share sky sectors (you know, the ones where you can look from one window into another), and even that place in level 3 where you're on a cliff (if you've played the demo, you know what I mean).

I just downloaded ZDoom very recently, and at that point I had just started editing level 13. As soon as I made a window in that level, the HOMs were there... but only in ZDoom. I continued with the level anyway; now I have several windows in the level.

Open this link in a new window to see the problem (I use GeoShitties for img linking and they never display right here):
http://geocities.com/netnomad312/hom.jpg

The HOMs occur on the linedefs between sectors C and D. And this is only one example. What changed?

It should also be noted that I recently tried playing another of my wads in ZDoom the other day, which starts you on a sky-surrounded platform, and I saw no HOMs.

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hm.... weird. why not try these two steps...
1. check your linedefs and make sure that there are no extra sidedef textures laying around/missing textures in there.
2. try remaking the level over for zdoom.

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I've never had a problem with a map running fine in vanilla DooM and causing problems in ZDooM. Would you be able to post a pic of the HOM, showing the window (sector B) and looking out into sector C in the direction of the HOM?

Also, if you like, you can send me the map (zipped) and I can take a look at it.

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Well, there's always the demo I made. Level 3 is the first one to contain sky-viewing windows, but levels 4 and 6 have them as well. It's in the archives as nntwdemo.zip; you can play it in ZDoom and see for yourself if you like.

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It could be a result of your nodes builder. I find the most stable in most cases is zennode or a newer version of bsp. I think most people would probably agree that Zennode is top notch tho. It may or may not be the cause of your problem but then again, it might be because not all nodes builders are created equally

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*Moan...* Damn node builders. Here's the situation with that:

I've tried BSP, but every time I ran the level I used BSP on, it crashed. Then I used ZenNode, got the same result. Now, here's the external node build command I use:

C:\Program Files\Doom II for Windows 95\ZenNode-1.1.0\win32\ZenNode.exe $_Wadfile map$_Wadmap

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netnomad312 said:

Well, there's always the demo I made. Level 3 is the first one to contain sky-viewing windows, but levels 4 and 6 have them as well. It's in the archives as nntwdemo.zip; you can play it in ZDoom and see for yourself if you like.


That's what I played it with (v42) and I never got any homs.

With regards to your command line, is Zennode actually building the nodes or is it giving out error messages? (click 'show external node build' to see what it's doing)

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netnomad312 said:

*Moan...* Damn node builders. Here's the situation with that:

I've tried BSP, but every time I ran the level I used BSP on, it crashed. Then I used ZenNode, got the same result. Now, here's the external node build command I use:

C:\Program Files\Doom II for Windows 95\ZenNode-1.1.0\win32\ZenNode.exe $_Wadfile map$_Wadmap

What is the name of the directory where the WAD files are located?

WA does not put quotes around the file names, so any long file name with blanks will not work. You can either make a "tool" with the same command (that works, since WA does it differently there) or you can make sure all the PWAD files and WA are in directories that do not have a blank in them.

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Deep: Hmm... the "tool" thing is a good idea. I could put a batch file in the WA folder with that command, and just run that batch as my node builder. Thanks.

UD: I never see a thing. I did click "show external node build." The window appears and then disappears, giving me no chance to read what it says... but ZDoom 4.2? I only have 1.22 (according to the txt). What does 4.2 do differently? Can it fix a bug that happens when I switch it to full-screen? Everything looks screwed up. Can't really describe what I'm seeing; just a bunch of crap. Funny thing is, fullscreen works okay on my laptop, but not here on my internet-ready machine with Windows ME.

If you're interested (even mildly), I'm planning on putting out a "version 2.0" of my demo. I changed a few things (the file cabinet switches work now, for instance), and this one's going to have the green key package in it (containing the sprites themselves, the door patches, the status bar graphics, and a dehacked patch that makes it work...). I actually made this one out of my current file, and just deleted the extra levels. So the extra resources are still there, and one with Wintex or a similar program can check out the new music and stuff. The dhe also contains altered story text after the sixth level, but with a different second paragraph then the actual wad I'm working on.

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I just tried the batch file idea I had. Seems every time I try to refrence ZenNode's folder, I get "invalid directory." I've tried all of this stuff:

1. First I made the batch file which had the full node build command. I got "Invalid directory."
2. When that didn't work, I tried putting quotes around the command line in the batch file. Again, I got "Invalid directory."
3. Then I tried using DOS names (progra~1 instead of program files for instance). Still got "Invalid directory."
4. Then I loaded a command prompt window and went to the Doom II folder. I put in "dir" and saw all the folders. ZENNOD~1, it said, was that folder's name. I tried refrencing that folder from the command prompt. Nope. "Invalid directory."
5. I even tried installing ZenNode in Wadauthor's folder. I changed the batch file accordingly. And again, "Invalid directory."
6. I went to Wadauthor's folder in the command prompt and tried to enter ZENNOD~1. "Invalid directory."
7. I guessed that the dots and dashes in the folder name (its full name is "ZenNode-1.1.0") were screwing it up, so I renamed the folder "ZenNode." No luck; still got "Invalid directory."

What am I doing wrong, and why the hell does my computer think ZenNode's directory is invalid?? Are you sure it's the node builder?For the third time during my time on these boards, you people have suggested switching node builders. And three times, it's nearly driven me insane. They flat-out never work. And I still see these damned HOMs! *Twitch*

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netnomad312 said:

... but ZDoom 4.2? I only have 1.22 (according to the txt). What does 4.2 do differently?

Actually it's ZDooM beta v2.42. And in terms of displaying a sky sector, v1.22 and beta v2.42 don't do anything differently.

A note on WadAuthor's internal node builder vs. ZenNode. I have built nearly 50 maps using WadAuthor's internal node builder, and I've never had any problems running the maps either in vanilla DooM (when VPO errors are not an issue) or in ZDooM. I recently completed a map for the Community Chest megawad that uses vanilla DooM tricks, such as 3D bridges and window-over-window. Using WA's internal node builder the map ran fine in vanilla DooM, ZDooM and legacy. I ran the map through ZenNode, and the vanilla DooM tricks were all messed up in DooM2 and ZDoom. I stuck with the version using the internal node build.

However, if you still insist on using ZenNode, an easy fix is to copy your wad into your ZenNode directory, and use the command:

zennode wadname.wad

If you want your output file saved into a diferent file, run:

zennode (wadname).wad -o newwadname.wad

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Well, there's no way I'm moving my wads again. I tried that when I was trying BSP, that gave me all kinds of grief. I always save my wads in the Doom 2 folder.

WA's nodebuilder never gave me any problems of this sort before. But you know something I never noticed before? When I play it on my laptop, I get HOMs in different places than I do on this comp. I wonder how the differences in computers could cause this...

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I just downloaded the demo and ran it in ZDooM beta 2.42 and had no HOM's at all. however it could be because Beta 2.42 builds the nodes itself when the wad is loaded.

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Cool. Can it also fix that bug I described earlier about switching to fullscreen mode? It's pissing me off because I have to play in a window, with either small resolution and low detail, or normal resolution and barely readable numbers.

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netnomad312 said:

Well, there's no way I'm moving my wads again ..... I always save my wads in the Doom 2 folder.

Using WadAuthor you can save a map to your DooM2 folder without running a node builder on it. Then you simply copy the wad file to the ZenNode folder and use as directed. After the nodes have been built, copy the wad file back to your DooM2 folder. (Yes, I know that these extra steps can be a pain. But they might help you figure out if WA's internal node builder is mucking things up.)

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I've decided by now that it's not the node builder. On this comp I get HOM's in some areas, and on my laptop I get them in other areas. Everyone who I've asked claims that there are no HOM problems with my demo. I don't think it's the node builder.

To be sure, though, I'll be posting a second copy of my demo in a week or two, when I'm close to the end of creating the levels. This "version 2.0" will include the green key sprites (with a matching dhe patch), and others like computers and hanging lamps. A few stupid mistakes of mine will be fixed, such as monsters being able to open locked doors from the inside. I tested the demo today; I did see HOMs when I played it. Perhaps other people will, too.

Can anyone tell me why ZDoom won't play in full-screen without screwing up the picture?

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netnomad312 said:

Can anyone tell me why ZDoom won't play in full-screen without screwing up the picture?


I had a similiar problem but i found that if you want to run in full screen yo need to set Zdoom to the same resalution as your monitor. that fixed my problem.

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Well, I tried it using my real resolution (800*600), and it didn't work. Then I tried it in 640*480, and it worked... sort of. The colors were screwed up, but at least the shapes were there. I've actually seen that kind of thing before; when I switch to different windows from Doom 95 (with alt-tab), the colors do that sometimes when I return. Touching an item or getting hurt solves the problem. So I started the game and did that, but then I found that the text is, again, really tiny. So I'm basically back where I started. I still can't see why my laptop can do it correctly, though; its resolution is 800*600 as well, and I never have problems switching to fullscreen. Hmm...

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I get a garbled picture if I run Zdoom fullscreen too. It's fine in a window though.... I've tried changing the res and various things, but it always mangles up when I turn fullscreen.

Anyway, Netnomad, if you are going to make a tool in WA out of a batch file, you might have to add parts which change the path so it can run what you tell it to... eg:

path c:\games\doom2\wadauthor\zennode\win32
zennode c:\games\doom2\excerpty.wad -o c:\games\doom2\excerpt.wad

In your batch file, just write a path command to the folder zennode (or whatever nodebuilder you are using) is contained in before the zennode command.

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I don't think it's the node builder anyway. But that still wouldn't work, because for some reason every time it tries to access a folder with "zennode" in the title, it won't read it. Says "invalid directory." I have no freakin' idea why. And yes, that is exactly what I put in the batch file, except I changed the path names appropriately.

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Zdoom is only slow as hell fullscreen. Ok...

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netnomad312 said:

I did click "show external node build." The window appears and then disappears, giving me no chance to read what it says...


In which case, something is wrong, as you should be able to see it building nodes (takes a few seconds) and then the reject tables (takes longer depending on the map size).

Regarding the continuing directory trouble: try keeping the folder and filenames down to 8 letters, it could be that (if you're using the ~1 thing all the time). This command works fine for me:

c:\games\doom2\wauthor\zennode $_Wadfile map$_Wadmap

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Exactly. Wouldn't be a problem except it doesn't like the ZenNode folder. Even when I went to the DOS prompt, I couldn't get to "zennod~1." It made no sense, because I tried dir/p to get the folder's DOS name, and that was it...

But as long as the newest ZDoom builds the nodes itself, I have nothing to worry about... but does that process change the wad itself? I might to upgrade to 2.42 if it will rid me of that problem (and even more so if it fixes the fullscreen thing).

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netnomad312 said:

Even when I went to the DOS prompt, I couldn't get to "zennod~1." It made no sense, because I tried dir/p to get the folder's DOS name, and that was it...

I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Is your folder name showing up as zennod~1 even in DOS? If so, you can simply rename the folder using the rename function in DOS:

rename zennod~1 zennode

You'll need to be in the directory (folder) that contains the zennod~1 folder when you run that command.

... but does that process change the wad itself?

It builds the nodes, but I'm not sure it saves the reject table to your wad. (In fact, it's highly unlikely that it re-writes your file.) Regardless, if it fixes your problem, then I suppose you'd want it to re-write your wad file.

I might to upgrade to 2.42 if it will rid me of that problem (and even more so if it fixes the fullscreen thing).

You really lose nothing by upgrading to v2.42 beta. By all accounts it's stable and chock full of features. I don't think it'll solve your full-screen problem. (I have used various versions of ZDooM on Win95, Win2K, and WinXP and not had a problem running it full screen.)

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netnomad312 said:

Can I get that from the ZDoom website? All I remember getting from there is 1.3, I think it was.

I'll assume you're referring to ZDooM v2.42 beta. Here is the file.

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Actually, I believe ZDoom v1.22 does use a different display thing-a-me-jig, which should (hopefully) mean your display problems will fixed by using beta 42.

If for some reason you wan't to stick with v1.22, try 'ZDoom -noptc'.

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ZDoom 1.22 uses PTC and Hermes, 2.0 uses fmod and directx, so it's a lot faster. Why people still use 1.22 (or even 1.23) I don't understand though. 2.0 is vastly superior, has a lot of bug fixes and optimizations over 1.22, and 1.22 is like 3 years old.

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Oh... I already have that .cab file. But I don't get what to do with all those cpp files. How the heck do I install it?

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