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Eurisko

Romero And Carmack Live Stream

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On 11/3/2023 at 7:35 PM, Eurisko said:

The two Johns reunite December 10th 

WOW!!

WhatsApp_Image_2023-11-03_at_16.09.24.JPG

 

When i played DOOM back in 1994 i had no idea what it takes to make such a videogame. I though this was the work of a huge team of sophisticated, unapproachable, wise old scientists or something. When i look at this pic all i can think of is all this time it was just a bunch of nerdy kids just a few years older than i was.

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4 hours ago, Rudolph said:

It is just sad that John Romero ended up getting the short end of the stick, although that might have been more the result of his impulsiveness than anything.

Probably. Also didn't help a bit that he was, in some ways, a few years ahead of his time. Daikatana was hell to make during the late 90s, but move forward even five or so years and suddenly it becomes a lot more plausible.

 

There is also the fact that without someone like a Carmack to instill discipline and keep feature creep down, he really could go hog wild with scope, and I believe that in retrospect he himself has admitted as much.

 

It's often been said that one was the yin to the other's yang, and indeed without Romero, id's games kind of fell into a "technically nice but lacking life" sort of feeling, while Romero of course had grand ideas but they were so extensive that it became impossible to sanely produce.

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16 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

Probably. Also didn't help a bit that he was, in some ways, a few years ahead of his time. Daikatana was hell to make during the late 90s, but move forward even five or so years and suddenly it becomes a lot more plausible.

Why do you say that? What aspects of Daikatana would have been easier to do in the early 2000s?

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3 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Why do you say that? What aspects of Daikatana would have been easier to do in the early 2000s?

Well, for one technology was rapidly advancing. Don't forget it started on the Quake engine, and got pretty much completely scrapped and restarted from scratch on the Quake II engine.

 

The sidekick system was also notoriously undercooked - it took until engines like Unreal and Quake III to really have heavy pathnoding support, which might've helped them navigate the levels a lot better.

 

And of course, what you could actually render on screen was still heavily limited due to it being an era where hardware acceleration was still in its infancy - go up a few years and virtually every card has support for hardware transform and lighting, allowing for the rendering of high-detailed, high-poly meshes with minimal speed hit as opposed to it still being brush-based CSG.

 

A more modular engine never hurts, too, and engines were starting to become more general-purpose in that direction during the early 2000s.

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1 hour ago, Dark Pulse said:

The sidekick system was also notoriously undercooked

That is an understatement! XD

 

I am still not convinced that Daikatana would have fared better had it been release five years later, as the main issue with it was not the technology so much as bad game design and poor management. After all, around the same time, Ion Storm released Deus Ex!

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I really Really Hope Carmack stays on topic and does not try to bring up libeterian stuff as i have noticed alot of his podcasts style interviews or discussions in the last year or two he has repeatedly brought stuff like that up.

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Yeah, hopefully David and Romero can keep him on track if it becomes necessary. I want to hear you talk about Doom not how cool you think Elon Musk is.

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12 hours ago, Agent Strange said:

Yeah, hopefully David and Romero can keep him on track if it becomes necessary. I want to hear you talk about Doom not how cool you think Elon Musk is.

How ironic coming from the guy who thought John Romero was being out of touch and impulsive...

Edited by Rudolph

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6 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

How ironic coming from the guy who thought John Romero was being overly ambitious and impulsive...

 

I think you have me confused with someone else because I have no idea what you're referring to.

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21 hours ago, tatsu91 said:

I really Really Hope Carmack stays on topic and does not try to bring up libeterian stuff as i have noticed alot of his podcasts style interviews or discussions in the last year or two he has repeatedly brought stuff like that up.

I know there was a bit of an issue with him a while back attending a hateful convention but I always got the sense he kept things apolitical. If what you're saying is true that's really sad to me because I otherwise look up to John Carmack and I'm sure many others here do.

Edited by Individualised

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36 minutes ago, Agent Strange said:

I think you have me confused with someone else because I have no idea what you're referring to.

No, no. I meant to say that it is ironic that John Carmack would look up to Elon Musk, who is so much worse than John Romero in every possible way.

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23 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

No, no. I meant to say that it is ironic that John Carmack would look up to Elon Musk, who is so much worse than John Romero in every possible way.

Oooohhh. Lol I completely misread that. My bad.

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Come to think of it, though, it is interesting how Id Software does not seem to be licensing their engine anymore.

 

At least, according to Wikipedia, Id Tech 7 has only been used for Doom Eternal.

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16 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Come to think of it, though, it is interesting how Id Software does not seem to be licensing their engine anymore.

 

At least, according to Wikipedia, Id Tech 7 has only been used for Doom Eternal.

Since the buyout by ZeniMax, they have exited the licensing business and instead their engines can be used by the other ZeniMax studios. E.g. The Evil Within using id Tech 5. I suppose this is now extended to all Microsoft-owned studios... But it's not like being on the bleeding edge of engine tech is as important now as it was back then anyway.

 

43 minutes ago, famicommander said:

Carmack is entirely uninteresting to me in 2023. He hasn't done anything worthwhile since 1999.

I'd put the last worthwhile act of Carmack on the 26th of November 2012, personally.

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It was the last time id Software open-sourced one of their engines (id Tech 4 in this case).

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5 minutes ago, AtomIsTired said:

Why are people sh*tting on both Romero and Carmack in this thread, I don't understand.

They're not, really. The things being said about Romero are things that have been talked about before, even by Romero himself. And it's true that Carmack hasn't done anything of interest as far as most of us here are concerned, so it makes sense that someone might not be interested. I wouldn't have made such a comment myself in this specific thread, but I wouldn't call that shitting on him, and I pretty much feel the same way in all honesty.

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On 11/6/2023 at 8:27 AM, Dark Pulse said:

Probably

 

Not really. He was screwing around instead of working. 

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12 hours ago, Murdoch said:

 

Not really. He was screwing around instead of working. 

For what it's worth, the .plan file of the day of Romero's firing suggests one of the main reasons for his firing was hyping up a lot of features in Quake in places like IRC channels, a lot of which ended up getting removed or never being implemented due to the game's shift in genre/focus. I think there's a lot more to the story than the "he was lazy" narrative that's so widely shared.

 

EDIT:

Quote

Romero is now gone from id.

There will be no more grandiose statements about our future projects.

I can tell you what I am thinking, and what I am trying to acomplish, but all I promise is my best effort.

It's a bit more vague than I remember it being but I am pretty sure this is referring to Romero's public relations for Quake.

Edited by Individualised

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I hope whenever the Cacowards drop it's not during the livestream. Do they drop more or less at a regular anticipated hour every year or has it varied previously?

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On 11/9/2023 at 11:14 AM, Murdoch said:

 

Not really. He was screwing around instead of working. 

Because he was unhappy at the direction Quake had taken. Seriously, this myth of Romero being lazy needs to stop. Another reason to await December 10 I guess.

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18 minutes ago, Biodegradable said:

Damn, did they not save the VOD of the stream? I can't find it on Romero's Twitch channel. :^/

i think you're a month early

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7 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

Damn, did they not save the VOD of the stream? I can't find it on Romero's Twitch channel. :^/

I thought the same. Was going to ask how the stream went since I was at a birthday party yesterday.

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